Hello everyone,
I have learned so much from everyone here and my last topic gave me so much information, I am going to try another!
What role do you think attitude plays in our fight with RA? I always try to emphasize to my students how important attitude is, both in finding a job and keeping a job. Here is a quote I like by Scott M. Peck.
The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers.
The mind and body connection is real. Attitude can kill ya or cure ya.
But it isn't the whole story either. Complicated mess isn't it?
I agree - a positive mental attitude can help us not let this disease get the better of us.
You can't always control what is going on with your body but you do, in most cases, have control over how you deal with it. I know I feel better when I'm thinking positively and am stressfree. The muscles are less tense, my stomach doesn't cramp ,I sleep better. All which in turn helps my overall RA activity since for me fatigue is a trigger.
I know my friends don't want to be around me when all I did was complain..who can blame them..I didn't want to be around me.
Ultimately you have to play the cards you are dealt. You can choose to fold or you can choose to go for that inside straight and decide to enjoy life despite RA
Great topic, Mary."Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional" The Dalai Lama
This says it all for me. I have pain but I don't suffer because I've kept a positive attitude throughout RA. Humor has also helped me out. It's much easier when your spouse also has humor and a positive attitude and mine does.
I think attitude and your spirit is half the battle.
Lindy
You guys are talking to someone who used to be a Facilitator for a motivational series I taught back in the late 90's at a large corporation.
Everytime I get down, and my mind wanders back to some of the thoughts and techniques I talked about in my classes, I feel like laughing hysterically or bawling like a baby. Right now it all sounds like a bunch of nonsense. Even Scott Peck and the Dalai Lama make me angry.
You all know how it goes. You know what to do but you just ain't going there today, screw the world. For me anyway, it seems like I get through all the grief and then some small thing comes along that can knock me over with a feather, then I lose it and I feel like I did 4 years ago when this incredible, horrible, amazing opportunity lifted its knarly head. I have to find some way to look at it as an opportiny or I will start throwing things.............AGAIN.
Anyway, all that to say, thanks for not letting me vear too far off the path before hearing a call back and I know that someone cares and understands.
I am a real believer in the better you feel emotionally the better you feel physically. There are just so many chemical changes in the body when we are having a bad attitude or a bad day that are just really bad for us physically.
I really do try to find something positive no matter what my situation is. Like recently with Danny being ill and having to be home from work for the past 2 weeks. Yes, it has been VERY hard on us financially, but it was really nice for us to spend time together. It was really nice for me to take care of him for a change (I was really slow doing it but I got it done lol) instead of him taking care of me all the time. I am grateful that he is back to normal health.
I always try to read the comics everyday online. It gives me a good laugh and can sometimes turn my bad attitudeinto something a little more positive.
I actually got a somewhat different message from the quote...that it's OK to be "uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled". It's more important to accept and embrace those feelings than to cover them up with a phony positive attitude. Our discomfort can motivate us to explore our feelings and allow them to make us stronger. It's more important to be real than to project a positive attitude.
Alan
" It's more important to be real than to project a positive attitude" Alan
Isn't projecting a positive attitude being real? Specifically when that's part of who you are. Didn't quite understand what you were trying to get across. Lindy
I think what he was getting at, is not denying yourself your emotions. Its one thing to be generally positive, but quite another to be fake about it. When you are angry, BE ANGRY. When you are sad, BE SAD. Just don't let it consume you. You can't deny yourself any emotion you feel, its how you deal with it that matters. And if you can process that emotion well, and then return from it with a positive attitude, then you're doing something right.I definately think a postitive outlook means everything. Right at this moment my father is battling lung cancer. He was dx on July 4, 2006. He has had so many complications from the treatments, the cancer affecting other organs, infections...the list goes on. His doc said anyone else was going through was he has been through, they would have passed on a long time ago. He is so positive! He was addmitted again yesterday for a bad bladder infect. He is in so much pain right now...after the nurses put the cath in, he was telling them to stop "playing with it". He's so funny. Anyway, a positive attitude and love all around you doesn't stop disease, but it sure makes things easier to deal with. JMHO.
BTW...5 years ago my step mom beat cancer, and she is the poster child for positive attitude.
Has anyone read the Secret?
I haven't read the secret, but I saw the movie "What the Bleep". I think that our minds are powerful and can affect us on a cellular level. This has actually been scientifically studied...Candice Pert's book called Molecules of Emotion.
Having said this I think I carry way too much emotional bagage to be able to easily turn my lifes fortune around. My future with RA consumes a large amount of my mental energy.
Great topic!
I think that attitude has everything to do with it. When I first experienced the pain and was diagnosed, I was sad, depressed, and asking God why this happened to me...and the pain didnt get any better. Until I decided that I was meant to learn something from my experience, I couldnt accept that things could always be worse. But now that I know that much, I can take the good days right along with the bad.I completely agree with Alan. We are going to be uncomfortable and unhappy at times. And that's okay. Those are real feelings to be accepted and embraced. But we don't have to let them dictate our lives.
At the same time, we can't always "put on a happy face". It's not just people with chronic illness, it's all people. But we have more than one dimension, one feeling.
Of course, some of us try to be happy for everyone, not to let anyone see how we are feeling. But I just don't think that is healthy. Accept how you are feeling, if you feel sad, accept your sadness...then move on.
Katie..I think your attitude and interpretation prove that you are wise beyond your years. And it's quite possible that is because you accept your true feelings, live with them and go on. After all, you have lived with pain all your life.
By the way, would anyone else really like to meet the Dalai Lama ? I would love to spend a day with him. He seems like a sublime spirit, who has the most beautiful, calm smile I've ever seen. I feel like you could absorb his calmness, just by being in his presence.
That, boys and girls, is my philosophy lesson du jour.
Be Well.
There is a choice you make with every emotion. Do I act on it? I think the biggest misinterpretation of "having a positive attitude" is that people think the answer to that question is "not always" And that's really wrong. It's how you chose to act on it that matters. You can't expect someone to be angry, or in pain, or sad, and just shove it down inside, or simple say "gee, I'm pissed today" Depending on the intensity of the emotion, that may not be at all acceptable. But that doesn't mean it's acceptable to project that emotion onto someone you love, or onto anyone for that matter. Processing an angry emotion can be done a lot of different ways, ways that don't even SEEM angry. I like to vent, I blog or I come on here and just tell it all. Justin likes to be alone, where it's quiet and he can think. If we took those emotions, and didn't address them, we would probably start acting angry to each other, and we might not even realize it.
I have no idea where I was going with that. Brain Fog Moment........I'll come back when it dawns on me......Geeze that's embarassing....
Hi Nini, in answer to your questions about the Dalai Lama - Yes, I've met him twice. The first time was at a teaching in Berkley, Ca. and the second was at a retreat outside San Jose, Ca. I lived in the Bay area for 20 years. There are no words to describe the impact that he has made on me. Absolute serene peace.
That's where my attitude comes from. I've learned to process negative feelings by practicing Buddhism for over 20 years. My attitude is very real and comes from my heart. He's going to be in Lafayette, Ind. at Purdue Univ. on Oct. 26th. I wanted to go but I've waited to late to make plans. We've scheduled a visit with friends from Canada during that time. I'm waiting for his 2008 U.S. schedule to be emailed. It hasn't been published yet. If you ever have the opportunity to go to a lecture please go. This is a part of myself that I haven't shared before on the forum, guess it's the right time. Lindy
I need an attitude adjustment I think. The last few days have been rough for me. I'm aching in places I've never had a problem with before. I can say that I'm literally hurting from my head to my heels. Since I first became a member of this board I've read about how bad off some of you are. So many of you have RA much worse than I do. And I've felt for you. And counted my blessings. But I'm feeling almost overwhelmed right now and my attitude sucks big time. How do you deal, mentally, with chronic pain? I believe stressing about it makes it worse but I don't know how to accept it. Meds aren't doing the trick and I realize that even if I do find the right combination, I may never be entirely out of pain, and I want to know how to live with that. I need to get in touch with my spirituality again and this is probably a good time to start.oh Miles!When I looked back at the message I posted earlier, it sounded mean. I was trying to explain that I go through the process, read from the Dalai Lama, Peck and assorted others that I know well and have even taught, practice the teachings and also my own feelings about faith and "acting as if". This works for a while then I start to feel myself sliding back. Usually this is because of more pain than normal, but sometimes it's because I become depressed and isolated. Just going forward and trying to be positive no matter what doesn't work for me, anyway, all the time. It's just too hard to always pretend that the fact that "this is my life", it won't get better. I've already been through most of the drugs, so unless something new comes along........
I try, I really do to make my attitude better. But sometimes I would rather hole up in my room, so as not to spread the sadness.
Do you guys understand what I mean? This is so I different than the person I was before RA, and I really don't want to be this person, but sometimes its who I am and I can't change that.
Katie, I'm fine with pain meds. if I could just GET some. I've tried just about every nsaid with no success, flexeril didn't do anything, and my RD hasn't given me anything narcotic. After I had surgery a couple of years ago I was given percocet for about 3 weeks. It definitely took the pain away but it also made me extremely sleepy and constipated. I can't deal with either of those. I have an appointment for my next remicade iv next week, but they have a nurse shortage and may have to re-schedule for the week after. I hate to have to disapoint my RD because the last time I saw him (after my loading dose) I had two weeks almost pain free. I even told him I was afraid to say it out loud, that I was pain free. Then I looked for some wood to knock on. His whole face just lit up. Now it's back to square one. I know, it's why he gets paid the big bucks, but still.
Crispy, I know what you mean. Just "trying" to be positive isn't enough. There's got to be something to back it up. I won't stop trying though. Don't want to think about the alternative.
I'm so sorry miles :( Maybe you need to be doing the Remicade more often? Don't feel like you're letting your RD down! That's not fair to you, or him. This is just how it goes sometimes. You'll be better of being honest with what's going on, and tackling it head on. I hope you get some relief from your next infusion, and that it doesn't get postponed.Mary B....thanks so very much for starting this absolutely wonderful thread on attitude. Such wonderful responses here! I was drawn to Crispy's original reply about coping up to a point. Coping with lots of stuff only to meet by something minor which causes us to teeter on the edge again. (ok, I've paraphrased liberally here...but I think that was the gist of your message.)
Attitude is our way of coping with whatever life slings at us. We can choose to let RA roll over us (and believe me that steam roller has flattened me more than a few times) or we can fight back by any number of ways. It's like Lindy's (I think) father battling lung cancer and the way he has chosen to cope that that.
It's a lot easier to cope when we have a handle on the pain, the stiffness, the fatigue. I guess on good days that positive attitude is easier to possess. It is on those pain-filled days where relief is elusive that we find it hard to stay upbeat. ...our attitude is the ONE THING that we are able to control. Not the pain, not the other symptoms. We can say...ok, it's hard today, so I'll seek diversions to help my mind somewhere else.
thanks for reading my take on this. And , Mary B, this was great...I think it was really needed. thank you, thank you!
Molly Bee
Molly Bee, the lightbulb just went off! When we're in pain, our attitude is the only thing we CAN control. Thank you for that. You just put the control back in my hands.
Bless you!On good days and bad, it's great that we are able to come here, share, cry and laugh together. Thank You Mary and all!!
When my now 19 year old daughter was in elem. school (about 10 years old)they had a contest to come up with a slogan for attitude. The winner got a free t=shirt with the slogan and the picture they came up with.
Her winning slogan was "ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING" She still has that shirt. It had a smiley face on it she drew. I try to remember it and sometimes for a joke she brings it out when I am down and it lifts my spirits instantly.
Miles, There is pain relief for you, just talk with your RD. I put off getting pain meds, until my RD looked me in the eye and offered them to me because he saw the pain in my face. When he told me that, I broke down and cried, not because of the pain but because he understood what I was going through. That was the day he told me that he'd rather have just about any medical condition other than RA and he meant it. Your RD can help you and if he doesn't, talk with your primary care doctor. Don't fight this alone. Your RD may increase the dosage of Remicade or give you infusions closer to one another. I notice you're not on MXT. Any reason for not taking it? We're here for you. Keep us posted.
MollyBee, on those painful days it's hard to have a positive attitude. Those are the days that I retreat within. My husband understands. It's my way of coping and regrouping. And your so right our attitude and love are the things we can control.
Crispy, I understood what you were saying in your post. Have been there, thrown things, ranted and raved and searched for answers. At age 62 I've learned there's not enough time left for me to throw, rant or rave any longer. I still search for answers. But my anger has slowly evaporated and left me a lot more peaceful and accepting of my health.
We all process and project in different ways. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it just is. I accept everyone's attitude and find I learn something from each and everyone of you. Thank you. Lindy
I just lost a really long post trying to explain............don't know if I have the energy to try again.
I think I will skip to the chase this time.
I have battled depression for many years. The last time I was really bad was about 14 years ago. It took years of therapy and anti-depressants to get me through this. But as most of you know, depression is a life long battle, as is RA and anger turned inward is the toughest nut to crack. I truly believed I had dealt with the major "issues", childhood stuff, failed marriage........blah, blah, blah. I'm 55 and like you Lindy really believed I was done with the Rage.
I am having so much trouble with anger and the mere thought of going back into therapy and opening up all those old wounds and working through them again is something I just don't think I can handle.
So, if any of you are still dealing with Anger, or feel like it has come up again since RA, I would love to hear any techniques you might have for dealing with it.
Thanks again for this thread. I have not admitted out loud how bad the anger has gotten before this and I know I need to do something before it gets really bad.
Crispy, Your post was so painful to read. I wish I could offer you advice, help, words of comfort but I don't know where to begin. I do have a question - Why is living with this extreme depression on a day to day basis easier than going back into therapy? I would think that depression and the resulting anger would be much worse. Maybe I don't understand the depths and the emotional response that therapy opens up. This sounds like a daily struggle for you and if there's a chance that therapy would help, why not go again? We go to the doctor for physical treatments for our other illnesses. I'm probably pretty naive about depresseion and therapy but I do have some questions because I've been around member's of my family and friends that suffer from depression.
I deal with the everyday problems and anxieties by meditating. It almost always leads me to a calmer place and to the right answer. My meditation takes many forms. Some times I do meditation walking, sometimes just sitting, and other times I meditate when I'm sitting at the table chopping vegetables. You don't need to be sitting on the floor, in lotus position, and chanting OM; you can meditate just about anywhere. It's good to start in the Lotus Position, sitting when you're a beginner. It gives you more focus but once you've meditated for years then anywhere is a good place. I know that you know this already, and I'm not sure that it would be of help to you at this point, or only more frustrating. I'm just letting you know how what I do to center myself. Lindy
Lindy, Thanks for the info on meditation. I like the idea of not having a proscribed way of doing things. Your ways will help me not be upset with myself if I can't follow all the rules in a particular form of meditation.
Regarding the depression, in trying to keep my explanation short, I missed explaning a few things. I am not totally in the "black hole" right now. But with all the anger that has come back since RA, I am afraid I will get to that place again. I started back on anti-depressants 3 years ago and it hasn't gotten to a place where I am suicidal or anything so I wanted to dispel that right away. I know that anger brought me to that place in the past and I am afraid if I cannot turn this around I could be there again and that thought really scares me.
For anyone that has not gone through therapy (for me it was 6 years, once or twice per week) it is probably the hardest work you will ever do. It's not about going in and crying on someone's shoulder for 55minutes. You have to dredge up some of the most painful and joyful emotional times of your life, figure out why they felt the way they did and work to incorporate the lessons learned from these experiences into your life without letting them overwhelm you. That is the best short answer I can give. I can't stress enough the sheer weight that you feel, when forcing yourself to talk about, and make changes in response to, these feelings.
So, what I am most afraid of is feeling all this anger again and feeling like there is no way on earth I could go through the work to talk and bond with a new therapist and then make headway on some things I thought were long gone.
Anyway, just actually saying out loud how angry I am feeling and having you guys accept and respond to me has made me feel better. It has made me face up to the fact that I MUST deal with it some way or another, excuses won't fix anything.
Miles, I hope you can deal with things in some way. If therapy seems too much, like it does for me, maybe try some meds? The one I am on helps with pain as well. God knows what I might be like without it.
Maryblooms, Thanks again for this thread. I do understand that you did not mean we should pretend to be all bubbly. Frankly, it seems like you and I have traveled a lot of the same roads. All your post and threads are so easy for me to relate to and I really appreciate your honesty.
I hope I didn't derail the thread from the original intent too much.
xoxoxo
I don't think you have to go to a certified person for "therapy" At least I know I don't. I tried for a short while, and it really didn't do me any good. I was sitting in an uncomfortable surrounding, talking to a COMPLETE stranger about things that he didn't even remember the next week. What was the point? I finally just broke down to my best friend and told her "Sometimes, I'm going to need you, to just get away with me and help me" and you know she said okay, anytime. And I would vent to her when I needed to, and cry and that alone made me feel SO much better. I know not everyone has friends they can go to, but you know what? If you come HERE, you have US. ALWAYS. You can post any time day or night and people will ALWAYS respond to you. With so many of us the views are across the board which is great, it gives some interesting perspectives.
Justin is the first person I talk to when I have issues. And you all, are second. Just so ya know ;-)
Great Article Mary, thanks.
You're right Katie, talking to friends does help, I got reminded of that just yesterday when I posted.
Miles, I also found that Remi wasn't holding me for the full 8 wks so we switched to 7 wks. It's been 2 wks and 2 days and I am holding steady (smile).
I was going to say something else here to Crispy, but it has entirely left my head. Drat! When I recall it, I'll post.
here's to us!
Lindy, I didn't think that at all. I was just trying to explain a little to people that might have loved ones or friends that are going through it, in case you wanted to know what it is like.
Katy, there ARE really great therapists out there, the best ones I seen have have not been the Psychiatrists or Psychologists, but he Licensed Social Workers or Family Therapists. My therapist really saved my life. It does take some work to find the right one, just like it takes work to find the right RD. Which is why people who have been in long-term therapy have a hard time switching. It's really a combo of meds and talk therapy that helps the most.
Most people that have been clinically depressed know when it gets to a certain point they cannot do it alone or just by talking to someone, be it friends or therapists. When the brain is not firing the seratonin in the proper amounts to the right places, all the talking in the world isn't going to make a difference.
Allright, enough, Yall gotta get me off this subject. I can get real borining real fast...........in fact, I am probably way over that point already.
No matter what, putting one foot in front of the other and just keep on keeping on is just about the best advice yet.
You guys are great.
Crispy, it's not boring at all. Some of us need the education. There are so many different types of counselors, therapists, and doctors out there that I don't know how you'd ever choose the one that's right for you. Sort of sounds like it's a hit and miss thing.
I've had one friend that was a MSW and a counselor and I tell you she wouldn't have been my first choice as a therapist. It must be really difficult to find someone that you have a fit with. I've never thought about it before, so your educating me and maybe I'll learn to be more patient with my friend who has depression. It's hard sometimes to be compassionate towards her because of the trivial things that she finds depressing.
I guess there are all different levels and reactions to depression. Remember the old saying "keep on truckin" Guess that applies. Lindy
Lin what's even MORE frustrating is how often the depression seems trivial even to the person who's SUFFERING from it. Can you imagine?? I know when I was having my worst struggles, I would sit and cry and think "this is so STUPID, it's not a big deal!" And all the logic in the WORLD didn't matter, because my brain just wasn't processing right. No matter how I rationalized it, I would still end up in the very pits, bawling my eyes out. And then, to think of how frustrated it was making me, only made things even WORSE.
And there are many levels of depression. I think I've been all the way to the bottom. I've been the kind of depressed that keeps it from everyone, and secretly cries herself to sleep. And I've been the kind of depressed that shuns the whole world and tries to kill herself. It's insane to be feeling an emotion that you have NO control over, or worse, no understanding of!
Okay, I'm off my soap box for now!
Thanks, Katie. I'm off for awhile. You're doing great, keep it up. Lindy
Wow, Katie! That is almost exactly how I feel when I am depressed. The anxiety does become overwhelming. I designed a bracelet for the 23rd psalm that I would wear and recite the psalm to help calm me down.My son suffered from major depression disorder (MDD) for several years. It can be a very serious, physically disabling disease. It really has very little to do with emotion; in fact, when the symptoms were at their worst he seemed almost emotionless, mired in overwhelming fatigue and a sense of helplessness. It's a very dangerous illness, with about a 15% mortality rate. One of the most frustrating things for me was dealing with well-intentioned people who didn't understand why he couldn't maintain a positive attitude and "snap out of it". I guess that's why I'm a little sensitive to the "positive" attitude topic. Most depression that we all encounter from time to time due to our struggle with a chronic illness is not MDD, but we still need help some times finding our way out of the darkness. It's not a sign of weakness to admit that you need help and can't erase those dark emotions yourself. It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge and face those feelings and allow them to run their course. Lean on a close friend when you need to; helping to hold you up is good excersize for them. If we do, we will all be stronger in the end.
Alan
Alan, after reading this thread, I don't think that anyone is suggesting that clinical depression can be "snapped out of" or "gotten over" with positive thinking. But some of us, or maybe it is only me, aren't depressed in the medical sense. Sometimes I do find my self feeling down or sorry for myself because I am focusing on the negative aspects of this disease, or maybe some other things aren't going right and it all just builds up. For me, what it takes is to change my focus. Maybe to stop making myself be the center of my attention. But that's a totally different thing than what you're son went through. I sure hope my post didn't offend anyone, or seem to make light of more serious issues. The topic of the thread was RA and attitude, I simply shared mine, or at least what I would like it to be.Alan