PMR and food we eat | Arthritis Information

I had been wondering if the food we eat has anything to do with how we feel. I am not on any medications other than NSADs and aspirin. It seems I would take aspirin and my pain would be less for a couple days, then it was back. Then I would try Tylenol or Ibrophren.

Over the weekend I really really had a flair up. I went to a Fair for about three hours and stood or moved slowly along and sat only a half hour once. By the end of three hours, my knees were burning and I could hardly bend my knees to get back in the car to home.

I had eaten a big piece of pizza, a funnel cake and a diet coke. I don't always eat too much junk food, but did at the Fair.

The next day I could hardly get out of bed and just felt whipped. This had not happened since I got of prednisone. Today, I feel about the same way I did before this awful flair up.

I was reading on another web site and someone posted the following link talking about how caffeine and sugar affect the adrenal gland. Have any of you been watching your sugar intake and noticed any difference. There is some reason I feel well, then not well, etc., and I a wondering if it is the food I eat. I have not had any tea for the last couple days because of the article. I know I read somewhere that someone was watching their salt intake too.

Here is the link, I'm hoping it might provide a partial answer for me. I'm surprised that I feel better today, I thought I was back to square one. Thank goodness I'm back to dull pain only when I move.

http://www.westonaprice.org/askdoctor/steroids.html

Hugs to you all.....Mary

Mary,
I absolutely believe what I eat is related to pain. I posted on the "athletes"
thread about my diet, but will give you just a bit more here.
There are many websites about "anti-inflammatiry diets."

My accupuncturist calls sugar & chocolate "poisons for MY body". Not
everyone, just how I react. My gyn says if she eats gluten or dairy, she is
in pain for days. My catering partner says gluten or nightshades put her
out for a week.

I would say watch what happens with what you eat... you said you had
sugar & pizza at the fair (by the way, I make decisions sometimes to eat
sugar & chocolate, knowing I may pay). For me the tomato on the pizza
would be the real poison. But there is also te gluten in the dough and the
sugar.

You can test it by giving yourself several weeks (my gyn says it takes 3
months, I believe you can tell in 3 weeks) off 1 food you choose (sugar?)
and then really challenge yourself with a heavy dose when you can afford
to pay.

There is also a book I used with my kids that was very helpful: Is This
Your Child by a dr Doris Rapp. She tells how to do an illimination diet to
test for food reactions.

So the brief version is:
1) Google anti-inflammatory diets
2) Keep a list of food and activity and see what you react to
3) Look at "Is This Your Child" By Doris Rapp

Good Luck, Please let me know what you come up with - if anything,
pgr

I am beginning to think it is sugar. Yesterday, I was feeling pretty well and didn't ache very much, just when I would get out of the chair after sitting for awhile.

I went out for a few articles and our local Burger King has yogurt cones on sale for .29 on Sun. and Wednesdays. I stopped and got one. By mid evening I was starting to ache and when I went to bed I couldn't sleep. I woke up at 8 a.m. and felt like I hadn't slept at all. I got up and had a hot bath and soaked at bit. I felt a bit better.

There was a monthly luncheon at noon, and at 11:30 a.m., I decided I just couldn't go. I was fatigued and ached. I went back and laid down in bed and slept for a couple hours. I took some aspirin and fish oil before I laid down. I had taken Naperson before going to bed and it didn't seem to do a thing. It seems aspirin does work better for me.

I have read a little and they say processed sugar. So I suppose fruit is ok. And limit the carbs. Sounds almost like the Atkins diet. I have never tried any of the fad diets.

I am going to get some adrenal support supplements and see if that helps. I am also hypothyroid, and your thyroid and adrenals work together.

Thank you for advising about your friends and your food problems. It is definitely something I need to look into. I can see no reason for feeling well in the afternoon and then by evening start to hurt and then hurt for 24 hours more hours.

I don't think the processed sugar will be hard, it will be the carbs. I like bread. Mary

I am so sorry you are hurting, Mary. It is processed sugar (white, brown
too
much honey) Fruit is ok. I would also say the carbs you are talking about
usually contain GLUTEN. The cone with the yogurt was made with flour?
Bread, etc., also... But remember there is also gluten hidden in many
things.
(example, soy sauce has wheat in it unless you get gluten free). If you are
really consciencious about cutting out the sugar and still find problems,
go for the gluten... sorry, I am really wanting to disprove my gluten
sensitivity, but I am not hopeful!

Mary, it has been very hard for me to stop the sugar addiction. Don't be
too hard on yourself if you struggle with it. There is an old book that was
helpful for me I think it is "Sugar time Blues" The only way I finally did it
was with the help of an acupuncturist.

The other thing I have done in this process is write down food & activity
together to see if it is always food or always activity or both (which it
seems to be for me)

Best of luck & please let me know how you are after a week without. I
will br thinking about you.
pgr

Found the article from the Ask the Doctor about getting off steroids very interesting. Particularly the paragraph about hormones that the adrenal cortex makes being derived from our best friend--cholesterol.

You don't suppose that the cholesterol lowering drugs are causing some of these problems. I know my husbands problems with temporal arteritis and polymagalia all point to his use of the cholesterol lowering drugs several years ago. Mayo has statins listed on his allergies. The muscle aches and pains that the statins caused do not go away immediately when you stop taking them and sometimes remain forever.

Hubby is lowering the prednisone very slowly from 15 to 10 where Mayo would like him to be by Christmas time. At 1/2 mg per week or two he has had very little problems so far. We realize it gets worse when you get lower. It has been interesting reading about the way the weather affects people with this horrid disease. He is more loggy and aches more on cloudy, overcast days.

I can also tell how he feels by how much he waddles like a duck. On good days it is not noticeable.

Cap

Hello, Mary Lou. An aside to your message: If the Tylenol helps, then by all means use it. However, Keep in mind that it is not an anti-flammatory agent. Hope you can resolve the food question. We all need to be informed about thatk, for sure. Hugh

Cap, You raise an interesting point. I've been on the statin, Zocor, for years, the 10mg minimum pill, and now you've got me wondering. I've been thinking about quitting the Zocor, gradually, and see if my cholesterol stays in range, so maybe now's the time. How is your husband's cholesterol count doing?

And please don't describe your husband's walking as "waddles like a duck". He'd probably much prefer a much more manly "staggers like a drunken sailor."

Dr. Graveline has a very informative web site that we have gleaned a lot of information from. He has also written about several of the problems that statins cause. One of his writing is on Statin Induced Polymyalgia Rheumatica

The site is: http://spacedoc.net/board/index.php

Cap

Sorry, you ask about his cholesterol--The level has not changed thru the years except when they put him on the statins. It runs about 240 total the last time we had it checked. We no longer have the cholesterol checked. He had transglobal amnesia while he was on the statins. He went to the post office and couldn't remember how to get home. That was scary! We lived 5 blocks from the post office. I can't remember the exact figures but a persons brain is made of a large percentage of cholesterol. Why should be want to mess with it and lower the cholesterol?Cap, Thanks for the two references. I've added the sites to my Favorites list. Reading a few items there about Zocor pretty well convinces me to quit the stuff. I note that quitting should be done by tapering off over a few weeks. Say hello to your husband.Back to the food... As I have said before, I haven't been eating gluten since
mid-July when I connected a really bad pain day to it & have had minimal
sugar since then as it is clear its connection for me.

OK, so the plan was always to challenge the gluten after 3 months. I am
going to a wedding this weekend and want to eat whatever i want there.
Since that will probably involve alcohol, sugar and gluten, I decided it
wouldn't tell me what I needed to know.

Sooooo, we went to the fair tonight and i decided this was the day. I stayed
away from most of the sugar, but had a sandwich, other doughy things then
came home & ate a veggie burger (pretty much pure texturized wheat
gluten)... let you know tomorrow!!!Back to the food... As I have said before, I haven't been eating gluten
since mid-July when I connected a really bad pain day to it & have had
minimal sugar since then as it is clear its connection for me.

OK, so the plan was always to challenge the gluten after 3 months. I am
going to a wedding this weekend and want to eat whatever i want there.
Since that will probably involve alcohol, sugar and gluten, I decided it
wouldn't tell me what I needed to know.

Sooooo, we went to the fair tonight and i decided this was the day. I
stayed away from most of the sugar, but had a sandwich, other doughy
things then came home & ate a veggie burger (pretty much pure
texturized wheat gluten)... let you know tomorrow!!!

Oh, did I say the burger was on bread???
pgr

pgr.....how did it work out for you?

I have really been laying off the sugar and I think it makes a difference. Too many carbs though and I hurt. I went grocery shopping a bit ago and bought a coffee cake. I really know I probably shouldn't have. But you sure do get hungry for it. I got some brown pumpernical bread too, but if I don'teat too much of that, I think I am ok. Maybe I should try not eating gluten. Bread is one of my standby foods. I would rather have a sandwich than a piece of cake.

Along the line of talking about cholesterol: I have always had low cholesterol, and it was just tested and it is 187. The one time it was above 200 it was 205 and my thyroid medicine was upped 12 points and it went down 10 or so points. Our thyroids and andrenal glands really work together.

Mary

Great news! I had a good day today! Better than in a week actually. And
now I know the culprits for increased pain for me:
1) SUGAR
2) Weather
3) This is the key: NIGHTSHADES!!!!!

So when I looked at the things I had eaten the 2 times I thought gluten
was effecting me, both had nightshades in them; Tomatoe paste in 1 and
Potato Starch in the other. I already knew that I was very allergic to
nightshades, and that they are an arthritic pain trigger for many (lots of
articles on that), but I didn't realize how badly they hurt me.

So I will go "gluten light" mainly to avoid the carb/sugars, but will not
completely avoid it. It will make my life much easier! I will also be MORE
strict about nightshades (thought I was already)
pgrpgr555, I'm glad you're figuring out what keeps you effective, else I'd have to turn the whip over to someone else. Meanwhile, all you ladies keep on rowing the boat. Us men are on the aft deck having a cigar!Hi Bob, you crack me up! Better be careful though, a rower might splash
and put out your cigar!

LibethLibeth, Not as long as pgr555 is cracking the whip! She's on us guys' side, i.e., a closet cigar smoker. Sorry to give away your secret life, pgr.Really Bob! Just don't tell them about the Brandy please! Or the Cpgnac!
pgrDear pgr555, Better lay off that Cpgnac! This is not a cruise ship...we're serious sailors...a round of grog for all hands!Have you heard the " Whatever Floats Your Boat " term. Would be a good saying for you drunken sailors!! Just joking xxI am new to this site. You all have given me such good information. I was diagnosed with PMR back in April. Had no idea what was going on in Feb, when I slept the whole month and started to have pain in my left shoulder. My Dr sent me to a Rhumy Dr, did the test and said I have PMR. I started on 10mg of pred, 5 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. I am now down to 5 in the morning and 2.5 in the afternoon. Seems when I cut down I just want to sleep all day. I went to a sleep study Dr this last week and won't get the results till Monday. After reading all your post, I am giving up sugar to start with. I thought one thing at a time. Thanks so much. Geri

Geri,

From one quilt angel to another, HI

Fatigue is such a big part of predisone withdrawals. Why are you splitting the doseage? That is one of the first things I learned on this site as something not to do. My Dr and info here all says under 10mg, should all be taken in the am. Something about forcing the adrenal gland work on its own ,as soon as possible. Just another thought to add to the mix.

Are you a hand or machine quilter?

Lonna

Hi Geri, and welcome to our ever-growing group of pred-heads! Like Lonna, I also thought it is best to take low doses all in the morning. There are some folk here who split doses, but they are bigger doses.

I can especially relate to the sleepiness as I have always been that way, even before PMR! Although with PMR came terrible fatigue and exhaustion which when combined with sleepiness is rough! For a short while pred caused me to be jittery and wide awake at night, but that didn't last long and I'm back to that heavy deep sleeping 10 hours a night and an hour in the afternoons as well, without which I can't make it through the evening. I have been down that sleep study road too, having had altogether 3 sleep studies, none of which showed anything, no sleep apnea or anything like that.

PMR definitely causes fatigue and tiredness and this may manifest itself differently in different people. In your case maybe it is more sleepiness than something else. I hope you get some useful help soon, it is a bit depressing feeling one is sleeping ones life away!

Hi Lonna, and Chico, Thanks for the encourangement. I dont know why the Dr had me split the dose of pred. I am to cut out the 2.5mg in the afternoon anytime soon. I see my Dr the end of the month. I gave up sugar a few days ago and can tell a difference. I am also taking 2,000 mg of vit c a day. I am still sweaty on and off all day, seems like 2 hrs after I take my pred I sweat. I hope to get my sleep study back this week and be able to get a good night sleep. I go to bed at 11pm and get up around 9am. Then I usually take a afternoon nap at 1 to 3. Sometimes I fall asleep on the couch at 11am and just can't help it. My family is wonderful through all of this. I injured myself at work back in 1997 and fought with workers comp for 2 years before they would do anything. I ended up with neck surgery c5 and 6, 2 shoulder surgerys and knee surgery within 3 years. I am a chronic pain person and love my Dr who have helped me deal with this. Then the PMR came up and oh boy, I was not prepared for this. Thanks again. Geri

Lonna, I am a machine piecing and hand applique person. I am starting to do machine applique because it is so much faster. I send my large quilts out to be quilted. Would love to have a long arm, but don't think I could do that with how I am feeling right now. I love the antique, civil war quilts, and traditional. I have quilted for 30 years. This PMR has really slowed me down on quilting. Geri

Geri,

PMR and quilting do not go together..I really missed my obsession for months. Do not want to waste everybody else time on quilting. But if you would like email me and we can talk-I love to hear what other are doing sewblest@verizon.net

Lonna

Mary mentioned the "westonaprice" - they also have an interesting answer from a doctor on the site about polymyalgia rheumatica and various cleansing fasts. I'm not a great believer in "cleansing" or fasting, but it is interesting and could prove helpful is someone had the will power (probably not me!) to pursue it. See:

http://www.westonaprice.org/askdoctor/polymyalgiarheumatica. html

I thought I would bring this back up. I have been watching my sugar intake. No more cookies, cake, ice cream, etc.

Yesterday I went to my nephew's birthday party and had cake and ice cream...more than a little scoop of ice cream. I hadn't had ice cream for three months.

I also had some potatoes and tomatoes. Today I have the biggest fatigue day I have had for a couple months. I slept for 12 hours and had a two hour nap already. I wonder how long it will take all of that to go through my system.

I know for sure sugar brings on my fatigue. I am no longer on prednisone. I take aspirin, tylenol and ibrophren. I still have stiffness, but it is bearable....to a degree. I hope it burns itself out pretty soon since I am now on the 14th month. Mary

Mary,
I hope you ar feelig better. I know the sugar does that to me, but then you
had the nightshades (potato/tomato) on top of it... I am sooooo allergic to
nightshades that it would be hard to know whcuh it was if that was me.

Take care of yourself!
pgrPhyl, are you still on the gluten free diet? Anyone else doing gluten free? I have been getting desperately fed up lately with distended upper abdo and excessive belching. It's nothing new for me, had this problem for years, along with reflux, but lately it has been much much worse (the gas, not the reflux). So as an experiment I have gone gluten free today, and it's like magic, not a single belch and my stomach feels HEAPS better. I was not expecting it to help at all. I had cornmeal instead of oatmeal for breakfast, and rice crackers instead of rye crackers for lunch. Will be interesting to see how it continues. But if it stays this good, then I know that at least part my stomach problems are gluten related.

I am still trying to track down whether my PMR is food related. I am very interested in your story on a food related issue.

A funny thing happened the latter part of October. I had a dental appointment at 8:30 a.m. I took four Ibuprofen. I set the alarm..which didn't go off and I awoke to the ringing of the phone. I did not have an pain in my arms or back or knees. When I stretched them they didn't hurt, but it felt like I could stretch out the stiffness. This lasted until about 4:00 p.m. I tried the four Ibuprofen again the next night and I woke up the next morning with the same pain/stiffness. I had eaten vegetables and fried eggs (no oil) for supper. In the morning I had Fiber 1 and raisins.

At Thanksgiving dinner, I over ate and the next day was stiff as a board all over and hurt for two days.

Today I went to the doctor and she suggested I try a 24 hour fast and see how I felt. I had oatmeal for breakfast today. It will be interesting to see just how I feel at the end of 24 hours.

She said I could drink juice, tea, water. I haven't eaten in six hours now except for 8 oz of juice twice. My arms still hurt.

Food is having something to do with it. I have IBS and have it mostly under control with one-half cup of Fiber 1, the breakfast food and I take Imodium. But there is still something that is triggering this stiffness, and it can gome on very quickly and go away very quickly. Mary

Mary,
I would say 2 things from your story:
1) If you ate american oatmeal (ie like Quaker Oats or the like) it contains
gluten. Many find a gluten intolerance causes arthritis in many forms & joint
pain and achiness.
2) Sugar is a huge trigger for many of us.
3) Other food allergies also cause joint and muscle pain.
I think the fast is a good idea, just be careful not to overdo the juice (it has
its own sugar). I would also add foods back in slowly. You might want to
read about the elimination diet.
pgr

A year or so ago...before PMR i had trouble with my ankles...when i got up in the morning or after sitting like in a restaurant or at the computer...I would have to hobble for a few minutes then I would be good to go. Was that way a long time - years. The Rhummy at that time said i had fluid in my joints and just needed to work it out...dont know if he was right or wrong.

I had a colonoscopy last year (still before PMR). You know what you have to do before you have it. You clean yourself out with liquids and eliminate everything- lovely time. But i will be darned if I did not have any pain in my ankles after the colonoscopy. I was so happy but it did come back after a few days..But i always wondered about that. Funny - now EVERYTHING hurts BUT my ankles!!!!!