Lori, Thank you for pointing this out. I'm afraid these soldiers are being sacrificed by our wonderful republican party. We can kick and scream all we want but unless we take to the streets like the Vietnam era we are wasting our time. Again thanks for the unfo.
I guess there is no easy answer. My hubby retired almost two years ago, but is looking at Civilian positions over there. He was deployed to Saudi for about five months, and would love to serve his country more. It is a completely different attitude and mind set, which is hard on the families left behind, but out of respect for him and the Military(which has afforded us a great lifestyle) I would gladly let him go again.
Lori - if you want to watch the Republican party implode, catch the action up in Alaska under www.adn.com. Most Americans didn't catch that the Alaska Legislature was raided last year by the FBI, oh, because it wasn't reported by the press. Then you can follow the money to a laundering scam in Ohio of PUBLIC funds into Bush/Cheney 2004 re-election campaign which is now in nine states. Then you get to a war run on the cheap by contractors and political cronies. Then you get to it being all the liberals' fault for "not supporting the troops". Right, Walter Rat Reed Hospital. Justsaynomore. Looks like they might indict that guy that took 30,200. Maybe , maybe not. I doubt the Republican party will implode. Did the Democratic Party implode when they found $ 90,000 dollars in William Jeffersons freezer. Dis- Honesty runs in both parties. Recent events of Hillary Clinton having to return money due to the donor show it happens often , again in either partyThey are all dishonest, so who do we vote for? Because it's almost an election year, both parties will bring out all of this bulls-h- that they have been saving until now! It's going to get nasty and you can count on that. It's all about money folks, it's all about money. I believe that they go into politics with good intentions, but come out smelling like a rat. It's the old theory, "If you can't beat em, join em". It reminds me of grade school when our mentality was, "well Sally did it, so we all did it."My next door neighbor went during Desert Storm, he has went this time and said he would go back again in a heart beat.
I have visited a guy I went to high school with MySpace and he is on his 2nd trip to Iraq, but he states on his MySpace that we wanted to go back and would keep going back.
Another guy that goes to my FIL church, he just got back from Iraq earlier this year, and he says he would go back again. His mother of course cringed at him saying that because he is only 19, but he said he would go back again.
Hey Lori, speaking of men, did you ever stop to think that from the very beginning of mankind, that men have been the leaders? And where has that led us. The world is in a gawd dam mess! I am sure that you realize that a woman can't even walk the streets in America safely if she is alone? Men are not good leaders, they are bullies Lori. I think it was Oprah that said, "women will never be safe on this earth as long as there are men" Don't get me wrong now, I am happily married, I have a wonderful son, I loved my Dad dearly as well as my two brothers, but there is certainly something wrong with a lot of men. They have to have control for one thing. However that could be solved at birth. Just remove one testicle and that would reduce the amount of testosterone and then they might start acting human. LOL Hey it might work...Sorry guys. This is a bad war, but not in theory. It's bad because as long as we are dealing with a religion that teaches that we are the Great satan, that teaches that we must convert or be destroyed, Iraq can and won't ever be our friend. They hate us at the most fundemental level. They don't believe they can be our ally and be true to their fake god. We here think of them as though they are like us, but they aren't. It is a religion that teaches that treachery, torture, lying, killing, is good. Those are good thing if done in the name of their fake god. We will never have lasting peace with them. They are treacherous.Mybe they're saying the same thing about you, and calling your god fake.Well, they are. That's not the point. We just want them to stop blowing everyone up. They want to blow you up Gimpy. They would look at your dead body and smile and praise "allah" that you're blood is running in the street.
Yeah, but you want to blow people up too! They were taught to kill from infancy. Even we as a civilized country have a difficult time to change our upbringing. But, it's only the men that are this way. No, I don't hate men! Ok, we (republicans) are really bad, worse than terrorists cuz they don't know any better. We, on the other hand, are just blood thirsty and enjoy killing not only those who have attacked us, but our own guys too. No wonder liberals take the part of those poor misunderstood freedom fighters. Hopefully, one day republicans will join with them to obliterate Isreal and force Islam on our people.IRAQ DIDN'T ATTACK YOU.I think it would be nice for the soldiers to get a break and be able to come home and see their families for an extended period of time. I wonder what seeing all that killing and violence does on a person's mind. But as many mentioned, it may be hard to get them to come and stay for that long. I don't know much about the military but my former BIL was in the Navy for over 20 years and just retired. He would go back in a heart beat if he was needed. It must be such a hard choice for soldiers to make. Trying to decide whether to leave your family or their brothers' at arms. I guess they choose the latter because they're not safe. I honestly don't know.
Well, to refresh your memory, we went into Iraq because Hussein would not honor his agreement with the US and the UN to allow our guys into his country to make sure he had no weapons of mass desruction. You probably don't remember that all your guys including Kerry, Clinton, Reid, Kennedy, were in support of that invasion. An invasion that could have been avoided had Hussein honored his agreement, which we gave ample time for him to comply with. You may have also forgotten that he had an agreement with many in the UN to defraud the "oil for food" thing, very lucretive for them all. Wonder if that's why Germany, Russia, France (all benefactors of the oil for food scam, by the way) were dragging their feet.
Our war isn't with Iraqi government. It is with the terrorists that are there, supported by Syria and Iran. But you're right, we should probably just wait for them to hit us again. Oh, wait, they won't do that. Not if Hillary gets in, because the only reason they've been hitting us over all these years is because we deserve it. We are so evil. Glad you've shown me the light. YAY, terrorists.
I don't think what we are doing in Iraq will make us safe. I also think the only thing that will make us safe is to change peoples minds.
Unless we can learn not to hate, no one will be safe.
Well, that sounds nice and essentially I agree with that. But should we have allowed the holocaust to continue until Hitler changed his mind? Do you think we can convince Islamic terroists to turn their back on the quaran? To embrace a country, a people, they've vowed to "drive into the sea"? How many times should America be hit before we hit back? Doing nothing doesn't work. We tried that. They hit us again. And again. And again. We can either bend over or fight back. I'm for fighting back.
Now and then ,said it Lorster in her post ( you did read all of them I hope ) Take a peak at this video. Nice History lesson on Iraq from the Dem side bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv [QUOTE=lorster]65, no one said women could not walk around. I think the conversation was
Tell me how is the government going to mandate the correct treatment of women? Another social program, getting us closer to socialized everything???
I think the attitude of males and male crime has to do with the fact that they know if they get caught they will get off. In Japan a male is executed for the same thing. Do we really want that???? I think tougher laws and the death penalty should be inacted for violent crimes against women, but it will never happen, b/c of some of the social outcries.
We as a nation do not protect women, but I think it starts much deeper. We do not, as women, demand respect from husbands or society. We open our doors, pay our own bills, and burn our bras....Thanks Gloria.....when a young boy strikes his mommy the first time daddy laughs...I see it all of the time and that sends a huge message to that little boy, mom is under us.
As a teacher and a parent I find the way boys are taught to disrespect women totally out of line. I had a boy that took two dolls on the bus in front of all age groups and put the dolls together and said....this is what I'm going to do to Mrs. Randall....in school suspension for one day...and huge accusations that I WAS AT FAULT...lost my job over that one. All because he made the statement that all of his teachers passed him though school because he was cute....well I told him I didn't think he was that cute.
Oh my gosh Shelly!!!! A boy did THAT and YOU got fired??? So, what was the schools recommendation, I mean, how should you have handled that?Apparently Mom(another teacher in the district I am trying to get into) said that I HUMILIATED her son in class. No examples just accusations. I was instructed to act as if nothing happened...well...so he got away with his first RAPE. I know that I will see that troubled little boy in the paper....sooner rather than later.
It is very sad to me that his mom did not even have the professional courtesy to talk to me first in front of her son. I am always open and called the family many times with good and bad reports. Yep, but the whole thing blew up in my face...and I lost all credibility with the class after that. Apparently she did tell the rest of the parents what happened (her version), and the parents wanted me out of there...so it happened.
Lovely society we will have in about ten years.
Just think Shelly, if you had been male, you wouldn't have gotten fired :)Yep! The scary thing is if a male student does rape me I cannot defend myself against that. If I do the parents can sue me as a person, up to seven years after the incident...if I "cause" any bodily harm.
I had a third grade student throw a punch at me and I had to back up and block, but that is all I could do under the law.
No wonder we have such a problem with male violence the perp is always right.
I guess when you live in a society that thinks dodgeball and tag bring about humiliation (they were fun games when I was a kid. I liked them even when I got hit with the ball or was "it") and a teachers use of red ink to make corrections is too much for a child's fragile psyche, then calling a kid out for making inappropriate sexual comments, threats, or conduct should get you fired. What a joke. I'm am outraged that that happend to you. If one of my sons were to EVER done a thing like that, you could expect a formal, personal apology to you and your class. And he wouldn't be sitting down for a week. Or doing anything else for much longer.
What about the " epidemic " of Woman molesting underage boys. Most are Teachers. They all get off with a slap. A man would surely go to jail. Violence against teachers should never be tolerated. Talk to any Policeman and see what the attitude is of many 13-14 year olds. Have no fear of the Police and if you speak to there parents they usually blame the Officer Can we get back to the topic. Justsaynomore Where the heck to you live?? Sounds scaryI can't believe that they fired you over a rude and sexually explicit act on the part of a male student. I think teachers have a tough job especially now. The attitudes towards school and teachers are awful. When I was younger, we respected our teachers. Although there were school age crushes on teachers, I don't recall or think any incident like you described would have taken place on a bus. This child obviously thinks his looks are going to get him by considering the comment he made about being cute. It's a shame. He'll never take anything other than his physical appearance seriously. And unfortunately things as you experienced will keep on happening until it's not just a comment. His mom better wake up and soon.Well, there was NO apology...after that he started correcting everything I did. My mom says this is how you should handle a sixth grade class. Finally after two days...I asked...Is your mom the teacher here?? That shut him up until he left.
Ya, when i told my kids the first thing my son said....can I go to work with you...I will teach him a few things about trying to do that to my mommy! Gotta love him...I did not bring him into my class for that reason. Yep...my kids would have had to do the same, Link.
The sad thing is NOBODY in the building wanted to teach this group of kids, b/c of their behavior. The whole building was switched around, and I was told that is where I would be.
6t5Fairlane...you are right there are teachers that will molest boys, and have for centuries. I HATE that too, and I think that any violent offense...should be punished by death. You are also right about Police men. I had a DARE officer in my room and the disrespect was SO bad he left and refused to come back. Well, that got the principal's attention. NOthing else I did or said would, but just that 'cause that's his buddy. When that happened I looked at the kids and told them...at least HE has the priviledge to walk away.
Yep, that is that child's thoughts...and I hope mom is waking up, b/c like I said...we still have rap sheets in our paper...he'll be there.
Sorry Lori, for hijacking the OT subject of your thread - our distinguished elected officials in Washington, D.C., making decisions that set the public policies for Americans, all without prejudice from lobbyists or organized PACs, just input from the Americans they represent from their District.
PS Overwhelmingly male representation, sums it up.
See and my son tried this whole teacher blaming thing in sixth grade, well every time he came home with a bazzare story...we would march hand in hand to the school and talk it out. I don't get many accusations, but yes he is very hard to teach...and is sometimes a sarcastic pain in the a**. It is all in how you approach him.
As far as raising productive children...isn't that the teachers job?(ok, he gets his sarcasm honestly.)
Lori, I totally agree with you, and it is funny 'cause I got the board in school in first grade. That was the last time I acted up until a boy was doing very nasty things in sixth grade and I cleaned his clock. (got detention for that one)
I had a girl in my class that asked me if I wanted to have a paddle in my room...I told just every day! Kids are not taught the respect for people in authority now-a-days, and it is going to bite us in the butt soon. I never dreamed of talking to my teachers like some of these kids do. I tell my kids every year...you will get good teachers and bad...in life you will get good bosses and bad. The thing that you have to remember is that your response to them counts in my eyes. Treat them with respect or lay in the bed you have made.
My oldest came home from kindergarten (not at our current school) and informed me that if I spanked him he could call the police and I would go to jail. I handed him the phone and told him to call 9-1-1 if things were so bad. But, I told him, before he called them he needed to think about a couple of things. If he called them, and they thought I was so rotten, HE would get taken away and put in a youth home with 50 other kids, no Nintendo, and food he probably wouldn't like (he's quite particular). He probably would not get to see anyone else in our family until the police investigated everything. He would not have his own room; he would not have his own TV; and he would not have his cats. Oh, and after I went to the police station to be charged with spanking and fill out the paperwork, I would be able to pay bail money and then I could come right back home where for once it would be QUIET and I wouldn't have to listen to him whining about dinner, discipline and Derek.
Yep. Doses of reality.
DUDE! We still have corporal punishment in our school around here. Every year I sign a piece of paper that says they can paddle my daughter if she is sent to the office. Yeah... she got paddled twice the first year
Every year I sign a piece of paper that says she can be paddled. And then I ask to be called when she gets a paddling.
Works for me! She needs to know they mean business and she is responsible for her own acts when she is not at home. SO... corporal punishment works for me.
Gosh this world would be better if we had more parents like you. I could only hope. As a teacher...I would not have the discipline problems I had last year if I could have just swatted their behinds once.
I would have done it, because there is no difference between a sixth graders mind and a two year old...both selfish and egocentric!
Well, I know my daughter does not do much wrong, and when she does... she deserves to be punished for it. I will sign the papers every year for both of my kids, until they stop sending them home with them. Which I think will be about middle school.
Oh and if daughter gets a paddling at school, she gets grounded at home. So she is in a lose, lose situation there. She behaved so fat after the first year in public school. Let's see how this year goes. When my little one was in Kindergarten, he was having a hard time adapting to the rules. The first week of school, I received a call from his teacher. She told me how he had been mouthing off in class and refusing to follow instructions. I thanked her for letting me know, and I told her that my son thinks that his cute and funny routine will get him out of trouble just like in preschool. I urged her not to let him play her. I think they paddle in our preschool. I hope they do, otherwise... they will have a heck of a time getting my son to sit and listen. But he does not like strangers and he will listen to anyone who is not family or he is not use to being around. It is quite nice really. Just sick strangers on your kid to make them behave, since they figured out you cannot punish them because a 2 year old can out power you. Yeah.... Not fun being took out by a 2 year old.
Jasmine my son pulled that same crap on me when he was about 8 yrs old. My husband and I told him the same things you did.
Shelly you got a raw deal all the way around. And we wonder why our school grounds are a war zone! Sorry you went through that.
Lori I'm from the old school way of raising kids too, we spanked and I've yet to have any criminal issues with my kids. Not to say we don't have any problems but at least I taught my kids to respect teachers, adults, and autharity.
LOL Joonie I see you're old school too. It's great to see young parents take the responsibility you are!
Lori, I don't doubt that your dodgeball experience hurt you at the time, and maybe the memory of it still does. Everyone has a memory of being rejected, left out, embarrassed, having hurt feelings. It's life. You can't sheild a child from that. If you could, it would leave them terribly unprepared for life in the real world as adults. Kids need to learn to deal with the downs in life as well as the ups.
Their are mean people in the world, in every age group, in every situation. And we all meet up with them from time to time. Kids need to learn to take what's good, leave what's bad and treat others how they want to be treated. Can't raise your kids in a bubble. You can try, but it doesn't work and it doesn't do them any good later in life.
Yep...would love to have a bunch of parents like you. I have always said I will praise good things but I WILL NOT babysit an ego. I think that was the huge conflict. I would call the kids on their crap, because if I don't care enough about them to do that who is.
I had a mother berate me in the hall in front of three students and a parent, about keeping her kid after school for not sitting at his desk properly. He would sit on it...have his feet on it, or sit on the counters. I gave him three chances to straighten it up, he didn't so he had to stay late.(a discipline that the principal set up, and I was not supposed to be responsible for caring it out...he was supposed to sit with them of course that was put into play after the officer walked out) The mom says, Congratulations YOU are ruining my GOOD kid. Keep it up and YOU'LL make a criminal out of him like others...reference to the other child. Yep, that's me...I'm a criminal maker, cause I wanted the child not to distract anyone else. Yep!
For the record, I am all for spanking. I would spank for two reasons. One, if my kid did something dangerous, like running inyo the street . Two, for deliberate disobedience. Not like when you tell your 5 year old to clean his room only to find a half hour later that he's made a fort and his room is still a mess. That might get an extra chore, but not a spanking. But when you say it's bed time, and they go NO, I dont want to go to bed, Im not going! That would get them a spanking.
When my oldest was still a little guy I spanked him for some reason and he walked off giving his behind a swipe and muttering "I wiped it off" That was a major error on his part. From then on he got a pants down spanking. One he couldn't "wipe off"!
LOl Linda that's hillarious! Trey didn't get near as many spankings as he needed but i tried not to sweat the small stuff like you with groundings from his favorite things. I had a friend who carried a switch to church! [QUOTE=Linncn]
For the record, I am all for spanking. I would spank for two reasons. One, if my kid did something dangerous, like running inyo the street . Two, for deliberate disobedience. Not like when you tell your 5 year old to clean his room only to find a half hour later that he's made a fort and his room is still a mess. That might get an extra chore, but not a spanking. But when you say it's bed time, and they go NO, I dont want to go to bed, Im not going! That would get them a spanking.
When my oldest was still a little guy I spanked him for some reason and he walked off giving his behind a swipe and muttering "I wiped it off" That was a major error on his part. From then on he got a pants down spanking. One he couldn't "wipe off"!
Yes, I only spanked for deliberate disobedience. I followed my teaching nature and taught the kids how to behave in public. With that being said...my daughter at the age of about two...deliberatly did something and laughed about it(her SOP). I decided since she could laugh about she obviously knew it was wrong, so I spanked her with her diaper on. She sat up and pointed her finger and said..."Don't Do That AGain?" Well, I took the diaper off and obliged her again. Back in the day when it wouldn't shatter my hands. Although I used to dream about trying to spank the kids and my hands hurting too bad.
I can't say that I completly spanked the disrespect out of my kids. But they always ended up regretting it and apolozing and accepting the consequences. However, I can say that whenever I got a teacher call about a kid that talks to much or won't stay on task, I always asked and was always told that they were never disrespectful and were easily corrected. Sometimes they had to be eaisly corrected more often then what the teacher was willing. I was always in agreement.
Jas...kids cook their own goose so ogften it's hard Not to laugh!!
When Trey got bigger he would laugh at my hand swats on the bottom, hence the wooden spoon! I always burst blood vessels in my hands and they hurt like heck
I am for corporal punishment also. I had it as a kid and my kids will have it also. I even got paddled when I was in 6 grade it hurt like H*ll. Then I got home and got it again. But I turned out fine. I respected my teachers and listened from then on.
I agree that our schools are war zones and it is because we cannot punish our kids without interference. I would have not even thought about speaking to my elders the way these kids do now days.........
I know Angy. It's kinda scary thinking that someday these are the people who'll be running the show. Who do they care about but themselves.A story along these lines re: disrespectful kids. I was walking Isabel and 2 dogs from the back yard to the ramp to go in the house. At that time, I had my black lab, which I still have and a pitt mix. The pitt mix was a huge pain and would go almost into convulsions from barking when he saw someone walking by on street. So, because I heard the kids, I stopped and tightened my grip on the pitt's leash to wait for them to go by. Of course, pitt started barking and one of the kids started cursing. Swearing up a storm and not directed at the dog, although that isn't justifiable in my mind but directly at me. F*** you lady and so on. I was floored. This little boy was maybe 10. Never in my life would I have cursed like that at an adult and I certainly would have more sense to do it when the "lady" was holding back a barking and growling dog. The complete lack of respect not to mention common sense shocked me. All I could think is what the parents were teaching this kid. No way is my Isabel going to talk to anyone like that and if does, repercussions will be in store.Hey, I thought this was a thread for Liberals Only. You whoop-ass conservatives have hyjacked it!!! [QUOTE=Hillhoney]Hey, I thought this was a thread for Liberals Only. You whoop-ass conservatives have hyjacked it!!!Oh Lori lips and teeth.
Oh gosh Lori you reminded me, one time my son and I were riding in the car and he was mouthing me really bad, I guess he was nine or ten, and before I thought about it I reached over to mash his mouth. I had never done that before but I missed his mouth and smacked his very sensitive nose and it started pouring blood! He went ballistic and I felt really really bad. He stopped thinking he could get away with smart talk just cause I was driving though
I remember how my generation was supposed to be the worst ever known in this country. We had the nerve to question what the government was doing, we wore blue jeans and had the nerve to want to wear them to school, short skirts, rock and roll, civil rights. The Silent Majority, as they called themselves, was sure that civilization itself was about to end.
C'mon, you don't really believe all that crap do you? In doing genealogy I have read newspaper articles from the 1920's about the terrible activities of teens, and their lawbreaking, violent ways!
I know an awful lot of young people that I find to be incredibly intelligent, decent, kind human beings. It is as it always has been, and the so-called "generation gap" is the same as it always has been.
Lighten up cranksters!
Karen quit being so sensible
It takes time and energy and being in your kids faces to raise good productive citizens. People now-a-days don't have the time or patience.
I am not saying all but I would say most.
You're right Shelly. Being a good parent means putting yourself aside and doing it even when you just don't feel like it, or have something else going, or when it would be so easy to just ignore someting and hope it goes away. Don't you wonder why people have kids if they don't want to be bothered by them? It doesn't matter how much you "love" them emotionally if you aren't willing to give the time and effort and attention to back it up.Linn, Shelly, you guys are so right! The kids are kids like all of us were but the parents are so much different. It's the "me first" mentality that is getting the kids in trouble. And MySpace, I've seen it. There's so much technology out there. It's a good thing but I feel is also making it easier for predators to get to our kids.Well, this thread has turned into a liberal's dream of free flowing conversation, thank you.
I distinctly remember that in about 1964 or 1965, Mothers who used to "volunteer" (probably through the PTA) and work in the classroom, helping the Teacher will the necessary, tedious work of educating a new generation of Americans, were "kicked out" because it became policy that only "certified" teachers could be in classrooms, no "volunteers" or "helpers."
I am convinced the root problem of public education in America is not the Teacher's fault, but the lack of enough responsible adults staffing the public school, i.e., being able to volunteer. Another set of adult eyes in a classroom works wonders. A set of adult eyes sitting on a chair inside the entrance of the bathrooms, volunteers for just a few hours maybe once a week keep children safe from predators and bullies.
We haven't gone to war yet. We have just been playing war, like a video game. When America decides to get serious, with the same verve as the parents who have just posted, that's when we will win with our argument that Democracy is the greatest gift Americans has brought to the world. Too bad we are still a Republic.
I am more conviced that its now time for a Constitutional Convention, and update the "living document", whose roots are in the Magna Charta, and is now over, what, 300 years old, and written in Middle English? And we term limits US Senate, US House, and SCOTUS to balance out the 22nd Amendment. And remember, the NEA is not about teaching children, but employing teachers.
Great thread, and it's really shown some of the deep convictions of the posters before me. Cathy
Well, you all are right and very insightful...I figured I put in about sixty hours a week...I always BEGGED for volunteers...I got one...and she was never faithful.
I watched all around me where "tenured" teachers would verbally and emotionally abuse. Yep...and I got fired over what I did. Yah my class was noisy to an extent, but at the end of the year I had those letters of a lifetime. I bonded with those kids and they told me things that would curl your hair but I met them where they were. AS KIDS needing and loving to have a mom.
[QUOTE=maryblooms] Oops, another conservative here. One with our son in Iraq. I will not be making any comments about the Iraq war since it so close to home for me. I definitely have opinions and hear "frontline" what is really happening, but it is too sensitive for me.But I will comment on the teachers. Luckily, I am a college teacher but we have high school juniors and seniors attending. Unfortunately I have to belong to the NEA. I couldn't be hired without agreeing to it. They take my money every month and I have to block their emails and shred their letters each week. I have a hammer for the first day of class and leave it on the front table during the first hour together. When someone asks why it is there I say "CELL PHONES". I think they get the phone. One reason my daughter is attending private schools was all the rules and regulations that schools have. I couldn't just inform the school that I was not interested in my 5th grader learning sex ed from them and about AIDS. I am sure they thought I was a smart mouth when I asked them about 5 other blood borne pathogens my child was more likely to come in contact with than AIDS. I had to attend a "session" before I could sign off for her. I am all for cultural awareness but do we really need a whole month of focus on African Americans? My kids are half Black (that is the word their father prefers and since he is one, that is what we say) and half Italian. Where is the Italian American Month or Cuban American etc. I was not interested in filling out their nosy forms. They do not need to know what race my kids are, how much money we make and if I am interested in free lunches. Of course, there is the bias against Christians my children experienced. Private school is where she ended up. We HAVE to volunteer as part of the school. I love it.I talk to her teachers all the time. If she does something wrong I know it! She loves it there. They actually are able to go to school half days on Friday since there is so much less non school related things going on.