Michael Moore on Oprah today... | Arthritis Information

...talking about single payer health insurance. I know you either love him or hate him, but I'm just letting you know.

I don't have cable so I can't watch.
thanks!, I'll watch. Lyndaoprah show with Michael Moore verrrry interesting re health care in US, lots said about this on previous thread, comparing health care in Canada, Mexico etc.

I am glad we have the system we have in Canada,,,,we have long waits but at least we provide something to those who are ill and not have to worry if we will lose all we have worked for over the years as a result of illness...at least our country has something to build on even though there are some flaws....at least we have a system in place.

rose
Rose, you have a good point there. And yes, you can either love or hate Moore, but today I liked him and I loved everything that he had to say. She had a great panel and I wish that they could have had more time as 1 hour was not long enough. But, my complaint has always been the same, no matter what the subject is and it's all about MONEY!

It was a very good show. There were 2 people in the audience 1 from the UK and 1 from Canada. The one from the UK said that when there is funding it is ok, however their are long waits to see specialists, 18 MONTH waits AND when the funding runs out so does the healthcare.

The woman from Canada, who married a US citizen lives here now. She said the care is better here and much quicker. But she lives in worry about "what if" they would lose their insurance and would need care.

The gentleman from Princeton had alot of great ideas. He did say that we need to come up with our own system and not duplicate a foreign system. We need to find what will work for the US.

The gentleman from Princeton also reminded everyone that we do have the best healthcare in the world. We are leaders in research and development. We do need to find away in which all people have access to that wonderful care.I ended up going to a friends to watch the show and it was pretty
good---it was a good panel. I have to nitpic on SickOfDramas post,
though: the only person that said when the money runs out so does the
healthcare was the private insurance lobbyist. (I have never heard of
anyone's healthcare "running out" and I'm not sure what she was talking
about. I know Americans do have their financial resources "run out" in
regards to healthcare, though, because I read that on this board). Also,
the Canadian only said the care was quicker, I think, and not that it was
better.

That gets me to thinking, though. I wonder how the waits really compare.
When my GP recommended me to my RD it was a 3 month wait for my
first appointment, but once I went to that appointment I was "in the
system" so I wasn't waiitng very long for all the auxillary care or
subsequent appointments. Also, as far as medications there's no wait at
all. I go directly from the docs to the drugstore and wait maybe 15
minutes for them to fill it (no waitng for insurance provider approval).

How does that compare to your experiences? I'd be curious to hear what
people from all countries wait times have been like for similar services.

(PS--I'm like Moore, I'd rather wait a bit it if means that my fellow citizens
have access to healthcare when they need it.)Gimp

The lady from the UK most certainly did state when funds run out so does the healthcare.

Not the Canadian, she said care was always there when needed although there were waits. She did not specify any time frame, just said "waits".SICKOFDRAMA39352.9739930556SickOfDrama, Okay, I don't remember but you are sure so I stand
corrected!

UKers, do funds "run out" for your healthcare?

There's no set wait time of care here because if you need something
urgently you get it a lot faster than if it's not urgent. Like Moore said, no
one dies waiting for care. I was just hoping to get a general idea of how
long we all wait for similar services. The 18 months the UK lady cited
seemed disturbingly long.

I hear a lot that it takes a year for a knee replacement here, but then I
read the province was trying to reduce the wait time to 3 months from the
5 it is (actual government statistic) so I'm not sure how long it would
really take. Next time I see some knee replacemtn receivers at the
arthritis centre I will ask them how long they waited!

My Mom broke her hip and needed a hip replacement and she got it the
same day. It was an emergency situation!

I would not trade my Dr.'s in for the world. In Michigan, it all depends, slowly but surely we are finding good fits for medical care. There will never be a Pediatrician as good as the one we had when in Indiana. Period. Rd's..those are extremely hard to find, I will keep with mine in Indiana although I have had trouble egtting to the point where I can go there. My PCP in Michigan, by far the best and very satisfied. My daughter is just sick that her insurance will not cover his services...I have to check into that.

jode

What I worry about is long-term care. That will bury us, as we are not going to have our children take care of us. It will bankrupt us. Lynda

I am upset that I missed the show. I was planning on watching it, but then my son came home from work and was watching something else on TV and it completely slipped my mind.

I'm going to nosey around and see if I can find it anywhere on the internet, as I am very interested to see it. I'll let you know if I find anything, so others who haven't seen it and wish to may check it out.

Hilly, there is quite a bit on the Oprah website and Moore's movie is called Sicko.
All of this political talk about health care has been brewing for years and it just doesn't cut it. We need action and real soon. People are dying for goodness sake!
6t5farlane, I'm not sure what you picture in your head, but I have never
had to speak to a national health plan government official re: my health
care in my whole life, except maybe about twice in regards to my
premium and that was one phone call each time. So 2 phone calls in 41
years. It's not like your insurance where you check with them every step
of the way. It's the hospitals and doctors who deal with them for financial
stuff (i have no idea what their experience is like but you don't hear a lot
about it so I assume it's not a big issue). That's why people say it's "free"
even though it really isn't, because no one ever talks about money and
bills when receiving and delivering health care. No one has to check with
anyone before this service is offered, or this operation is done.

Pin cushion, that doesn't sound too bad regarding wait times. I wonder
why people perpetuate myths like 18 month waits, even when they're
from the country? Could they have their own neo-con agenda?

I'm still interested in hearing about wait times! Lorster, you meantioned
them but didn't give any details. Anyone?Gimpy, When did you go to a US State DMV or speak to someone or even try and mail then at the IRS? 6T5farlane, I thought you thought your government is great! Do you mean
to say America is competent to lead the free world but not competent to
handle delivering a service? Seems kind of dissing the ol' GOP, doesn't it? I
mean, every other developed country seems to handle the job just fine.
What's the story?I've only had to call the insurance company once, and that was when the husband had his heart attack. He was covered under his insurance and my insurance (we had just gotten married and couldn't decide which insurance was better, so we took both). The insurance companies fought over the bill. His paid 90%, but they were pushing back because he didn't go to a preferred hospital when he dropped dead in the parking lot at work (as if he had a choice of hospitals at that point) so they were griping about whether some of it should be in-network or out-of network. My insurance company was ready to pick up the remainder of whatever his didn't cover (they covered emergencies at 100% regardless) but they had to wait for his insurance company to pull their heads out of their butts and make a decision. Since then, I've not had to seek approval for hemorrhoid surgery, laparascopic endometriosis treatment, D&C after a miscarriage, ER visits and orthopedic consults for various injuries, rheumatology visits, lab work, MRI, x-rays, ear tubes for my oldest son, cardiac consults for oldest son or husband, or anything else. The only thing not covered so far was a 00 charge from a plastic surgeon to stitch up my face after a fall. The insurance company would cover the regular ER doctor, but not the plastic surgeon. Since it was on my face, and I enjoy being cute, I opted for the plastic surgeon. I know, a bit vain...I beleive there is too much Red tape involved when it comes to some national Services such as the IRS. The Canadiens I spoke to at the Mayo Clinic (hhmm wonder why they would be there? ) were not happy with the national Medical services of Canada. My sisters English friend hates his countrys Socialized medicine. said his Mom waited 18 months for a MRI. WTF ? Last I checked Canada and England were develpoped countries. You are saying that EVERY developed country handles it with no flaws or problems. Thats a bold statement and my last too examples show that not to be the case. That said Canada is a small country compared to the US. Canada population 33,390,141 US 301,139,950 ( google ) I would guess it would be easier to use a agency with less people. As far as being the Free world leader thats not a title that The US looked for but lets face it The USA is. I'm quite happy with my choices here for medical care. Not always happy with the Dr's as I'm sure you can relate but I like haveing choices I'm not saying there's no flaws at all, far from it! But people who need care
all get it. To me, that's the bottom line.

I'll tell you one thing...I'd rather have a bit of a wait (although I've yet to have a huge wait for anything) than having the expense I've seen that some have for any medical service or for health insurance. Just the other day...can't remember their names...two women here (one I think was michele) saying they(or at least one) was close to 1000.00 per month???

As far as the waiting that so many like to talk about...I honestly have not ever waited for anything...nor has anyone in my extended family...nor friends...I just have never ever seen that here.

The trouble with our system is that for profit health insurance avoids all the sick people they can identify. The high risk pool in my state costs 00 a month, with fairly high deductibles. We can't all be healthy, we really need something affordable. If everyone contributed to funding health care (almost 30% of the US has no health insurance) I think the costs would come down. Those of us with health insurance are paying for all those without anyway...

I am sick of living in fear of having no medical care. I am also sick of working sick - it's been 33 years. I could retire if health insurance was priced more reasonably.

What percentage of healthcare dollars go to administrative overhead in countries with socialized medicine? I'm curious. Every program, whether public or private, is going to have administrative overhead. The key is in the comparison of percentages. And its all Hillary Clinton's fault, it's always the woman who is to blame. The US is run 99% by men, but its always the woman's fault that we cannot wisely use our public resources in a way that benefits our country's health and well being. Other countries put that at its first priority, and I have to agree. Yeah, I said it was "just fine" not "flawless".

Kelstev, I could write the same post as you. People I know, and myself,
wait a bit but I've never heard of anyone waiting the times I hear people
citing. I don't know where that comes from. Is it regional? Are they
isolated incidents? Did they really happen? I just don't know.

Of course when we want medical attention we want it right away, but like
you I'd rather wait a bit than be faced with astronomical bills, or the
possibility that I couldn't pay and do without any medical attention at all. I
have never felt my health has suffered because of waiting, except when I
waited 3 months for my RD appointment, but I've read on here that many
Americans wait just as long for their first RD appointment. And like I said,
once I was "in" waiting ceased to be a problem. Also, I walked out of that
appointment wih a DX and a prescription, and had my meds an hour later.

Another thing is I have access to all kinds of supplemental RA support,
like RA school and vocational rehab. There's something to be said for
integrated medicine!

_______JasmineRain, I don't know the answer to that. I DO know that in Canada
healthcare costs (per capita) are about half of the US, for about the same
outcomes.

That was another thing on Oprah, that insurance lobby woman said the US
has better cancer outcomes which is not true, unless something has
changed since I last researched it. They are the same and in fact Canada
fairs slightly better with some cancers.I shudder when I think of the Canadian couple who had to drive over 300 miles to Montana for their quads to be born because there were not adequate facilities in Canada to handle the birth and 4 preterm babies. Let's face it - it ain't perfect on either side of the border. Justsaynomore...Sounds like you have some " Issues " with men. Thats another topicJasmine, that's the beauty of the system though. Canada did not have top
notch facilities for that particular instance so they paid to send the
family to Montana where the facilities existed. Would your insurance
send you to another country to make sure you got the best for your case? I
would shudder if the family was forced to go to a particular hospital even if
it wasn't the best one.Gimpy-a-gogo39353.4935069444 [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]JasmineRain, I don't know the answer to that. I DO know that in Canada
healthcare costs (per capita) are about half of the US, for about the same
outcomes.

That was another thing on Oprah, that insurance lobby woman said the US
has better cancer outcomes which is not true, unless something has
changed since I last researched it. They are the same and in fact Canada
fairs slightly better with some cancers.[/QUOTE]

But we also have worse bad habits down here. We're fatter, we smoke more, and I think we use drugs and alcohol more than you guys do up there. So that's going to add to our cost. As for the cancer outcomes - I dunno. I imagine the working poor down here fare the worst. Those with insurance and ability to cover co-pays, along with the very poor who are on medicare/medicaid, get taken care of. Others slip through the cracks.
[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Jasmine, that's the beauty of the system though. Canada did not have top
notch facilities for that particular instance so they paid to send the
family to Montana where the facilities existed. Would your insurance
send you to another country to make sure you got the best for your case? I
would shudder if the family was forced to go to a particular hospital even if
it wasn't the best one.[/QUOTE]

I don't know about the out-of-country deal, but I certainly have the option to go to another facility in another state if I choose.
This seems to be a source for endless debate. However, I don't think it's
entirely relevant to debate wether one isolated incident was handled
perfectly. We can all pull out many anecdotes from both sides of the border
which unfolded in less than an ideal manner (although the quadruplet one
doesn't seem too horrifying---they didn't even have a bill!). Here is an
interesting Wikipedia page which compares the two health systems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

You have to cut and paste the URL. Please remove any additional spaces the
AI forum added in.
As I've said, neither system is perfect. jasminerain........maybe our cold weather up here helps us not to be "fat, smoke, do drugs or drink"????eh?

I always thought WE are the government, the ones who vote and pay taxes, and f**k up to quote your post,

but no matter what-- we are all humans and like to bitch and isn't it wonderful that we are able to do that in each of our countries......long live democracy.

rose
Rose's quote: always thought WE are the government, the ones who vote and pay taxes, and f**k up to quote your post,

Dream on Rose, those days are gone, like a long time ago!
tks Now & Then......like your name indicates....even Bob Barker has a game "now & then"....

what will Canada do with the Mexicans coming into Windsor, Ontario,??

What a sad world we have become...

rose

Wow, I'll have to read these OT posts more often, this is certainly a topic for debate, I have to say that in Australia we are very lucky to have the Medicare system, even though a lot of people believe it is inadequate. No system is perfect but when I hear what you poor guys go through I realise how lucky we are here. Medicare covers mostly 100% of any medical test, standard GP visits, pathology, xrays etc especially if you are on benefits such as disability. I do have Private insurance that costs .00 per fortnight (2 weeks) that covers me for Private hospital bed and Drs gap fees (out of pocket expenses). I used to work in health insurance and really did believe in what I was selling and still do as I know people who have been on the public hospital waiting list for so long for knee replacement surgery that their other knee needs doing by the time they get in (3 years in this case). I really hope things improve for you guys as this disease is stressful enough without having financial worries through no fault of your own. Good luck, Janie. My company pays for part of my health insurance, but I am responsible for the rest. They are now informing me that in order to keep my daughter on the insurance with me it will be at least 0.00 more a pay period, and she is the healthy one!!!!

Type in the search area " A short course in Brain Surgery "

Youtube.com80/watch?v=X Rf452zNI9U

Also read the comments area

[/QUOTE]

Chilling.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/073007E.shtml

Pip

Has the NY times EVER said anything good about Mr Bush. Remember this is the paper that makes up stories to print

One reporter! And he got a book deal!

And way better/fairer coverage than Fox!

:-)

Pip

Mind telling me what there is to say good about Bush??? Oh I know he's got being out of the loop down to a perfection. I am sorry I don't want to start a fight but I have no respect for the man, he has been nothing but a disappointment. meme

Term limits.

:-)

Pip

The New York Times sucks. Can't believe a word they print. Nope, I don't read it anymore. PIP........LOL thats pretty funny. The Times fairSo YouTube is a reliable source of information and the NYTimes isn't?
GIMPY-IGUESS YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE VIDEOI haven't even watched it yet.
6t5frlane, you're entitled to your opinions but is there any way you could be
less obnoxious about how you voice them? You might find it could help
convince people better.

So how about my question? Do you believe YouTube is a more reliable news
source than the NYTimes?

Figures...You don't even watch it and you make a smartass comment about being Obnoxious?? Well two very different forms of so called reporting. One is an individual with a video reporting what has happend to him, the other an opinion in a left wing Newspaper on two very different subjects . I'm not trying to convince anybody.

Well, your comment was obnoxious, as you frequently are.

I can pull our hundreds of individual anecdotal stories about how your system fails people, and I wouldn't even have to leave this board. Many years can be spent exchanging such stories. I now understand that to you, these stories have more impact than actual reporting in the NYTimes. Okay, I think I know where your compass is.

I guess I think of you as a person with an opinion but not much education or objectiveness of thought. So I think I know what your opinion is, and how you present it, and there's not really much sense trying to have a "discussion" of any relevance about the subject with someone like you. You're not even polite! You should go post on Craigslist R&R, I think.
Sorry Gimpy not going to lower myself to personel attacks. You say in other posts that you wish people would not use Mudslinging against others here but you do it yourself. Go buy the NY Times if you like. Hang on there every word. You yourself said we Americans don't get the same news as the rest of the world. Except the Times right? I think I also know where your moral compass is . Your lack of Objectivness and flip flopping is disturbing You know what? You're right about how this is no place for personal attacks.
It's also no place for belligerent rudeness.

So, as much as I felt justified at the time, I apologise for my personal attack
on you. I can only defend that it seemed a waste of effort to try to have any
meaningful kind of exchange, and I was tired of being on the receiving end
of your rudeness. However, I could have expressed that more effectively if I
had been willing to put in the effort.

So I'm sorry for the delivery of what I said.

MeMe, I can name a few things if you like

In a sane world social activists probably would consider Mr Bush as a social reformer. His increase of 57 % for federal education funding is astounding. No President since LBJ has fought harder for the education of minorities. His devotion to education has caused the teachers Unions to hate him Why?? They may have to work harder maybe?Tax cuts have created 8 million new jobs. His 15 yes 15 Billion dollar AIDS program has saved more Black lives in Africa then can be imagined yet he is hated by most African Americans ? Now the latest is the Veto . The Dems use children in there vail of hatered of Bush. Saw a 18 year single mother with a anti Bush sign. Said she was scared of losing her daughters health care. Astonishing since she almost certainly makes less the ,000 eligibility limit. Just a way for the Dems to attack the President. What kind of Party does this? Frightens an 18 year old for Poltical Gain I ask? Here in NY the President is saying before you cover the single mother making,000 you must first provide for the Mother making ,000. This is fiscal prudence and fair. The Dems have declared war on the poor at this point.....Meme. Just a few observations

Gimpy...Apology excepted. Thank You.

how do you know have you been there??? Health insurance is killing the low-middle and middle class families and I am one of the low-middle class families. I don't get any assistance from the government because my husband and I believe since we are able to work we work and we work hard for every dollar. Right now I am so worried about how he and I are going to pay for health insurance so we don't end up losing everything if I get worse, because our employer is raising the insurance so high, they think if they can get people to go with an insurance that will pay for next to nothing there will be more money in their pocket and the government, including Mr. Bush, doesn't care because this company funnels money into their pockets for their campaigns etc. If MR Bush really cared he wouldn't veto the child health insurance program, he would have his people come up with a universal health program for all!!! And don't be just pointing the finger at the dems, republicans are just as bad too, that is my observation. We all need to get involved with making this program workand we need to tell both parties to get of their high horses and actually do something for the people. meme

meme39358.5716898148 Maryblooms...Thanks for your letter. Mary...what an eloquent statement of facts. I am so glad you posted this. Thanks!!!

Everything changed about 30 years ago, when health insurance became a profit making industry, and it started getting more and more expensive. Health care costs also started getting more and more expensive. We can't go back now, it is so intertwined with our economy, and it would cripple us as a nation to eliminate private insurance.

I feel we need to have a base plan available to all Americans, paid for by taxes, which will provide a basic safety net. Private insurance would then be available to purchase as an individual to supplement or upgrade the basic plan.

Just as Mary's taxes pay for public school, but she chooses to provide schooling through other, private means, our health care should be available to everyone, and if you want something different or in addition to the public plan, you can purchase it.

Can you imagine what our nation would be like if all schooling were self-pay? Or provided by profit-making organizations? How many children would grow up without an education? Our forefathers, who established programs like public schools, and other government provided programs understood that.

The sad fact is that until you have been in a postion where you cannot get insurance, and have no available solutions to provide for your health care, you probably just aren't going to understand. But once you have lived without insurance, without any kind of safety net, and have asked for help and been told "I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do for you", you get it.

Very well put both Hillhoney and Lorster. It is very frightening trying to keep a good health insurance for my family. I am now going through open enrollment for health insurance for year 2008 where we work and it is so dismal. There was talk about the health savings account, I am sorry to say that ALOT OF PEOPLE out there could not save enough money through the year to keep this account going to cover expenses. There are too many of us that can not do this due to living expenses. I have been doing very well this past year, but I do have my rd telling me that I must be prepared for more problems. When these problems arise how am I going pay for them, without a decent insurance program. I don't want to be a burden to my husband and I don't want me to be the reason we lose everything because of my health and rotten insurance. I know we go round and round aobut how it is to be done who should be involved etc. It is such a depressing and fustrating issue , it just exhausts me to the point of tears. meme

Hillhoney and Lorster, I am speaking from experience. It is my own. I found out I was pregnant with my 2nd daughter when my husband had just left the Navy and we had no health insurance. We did use our savings for dr. visits for several months until he was employed again.
We weren't rich, he had been an enlisted man and I ran daycare. We lived in San Diego and it certainly wasn't cheap to live there.

I have been a single mother with 2 kids and no insurance and was waiting tables. In 2006 the median income for American was 48,000. I have certainly lived on much less than 51,000 (the cut off for the SHCIP program) most of my life with kids and have saved for a house, cut coupons, bought used and drove cars that are a decade old and manage to put away money for emergencies. I am not saying that I am doing anything special, just what I saw my parents do. I have had circumstances beyond my control cause my house to be foreclosed on and was bankrupted. So trust me I do get it. Been there and done that and bought the t-shirt.

As long as it has been available we set money aside (pre tax which is the bonus) for health care expenses. With 6 kids we know there are going to be expenses that we will have to pay each month anyway. It is taken out of our check before being taxed and I can use that amount for deductibles and co-pays. We will have to pay it anyway during the year, why not use our own income that has not been taxed?

Hillhoney, I was not implying that we should not use tax money on schools, I would just like more of a say on how my child is educated. When you give control over to the government you lose your choice in something you are now responsible for paying for. I now how things work in a huge government programs. Heck, I have my NEA dues taken from my paycheck every 2 weeks whether I like it or not.

I posted this information in another thread but I stated that Canada and the US both started government health plans (medicare) in the 60's. One of the causes of increased health care costs is that Americans have their health care paid for by a 3rd party (government or insurance). They have no idea what it costs. The government (Medicare/Medicaid) tell health care providers what they will pay. No negotiations. Most hospitals are required by Federal law to provide emergency care if they accept any Federal money (ie. Medicare/medicaid). It is called EMTALA.

I just completed a lesson for a class I am taking on Health Care financial administration. I had to create a spreadsheet that showed how to shift the charge for a procedure to private payers (non Medicare/medicaid) since the government only pays at 50%. It happens all the time. Most hospitals are not for profit, but they do have to pay the bills.

Yes, there are other governments who have 100% coverage for all citizens, even if their citizens could buy their own. I am certainly not interested in being taxed at their rates either. I prefer to have control and a voice in things that are personal to me. I am very familiar with health care and government. Remember, if the government takes over health care,it will be an extension of Medicare/Medicaid. Trust me, you will hear plenty of complaints from patients and providers. I have worked for hospitals to help them get correct reimbursement. So that people like Lorster can get paid, when they work so hard at their jobs. I am not a math whiz, but I can tell you what would happen to health care worker salaries if the government takes over the other 50% of health care. Remember they only pay.50 on the dollar now.

I have already stated this several times but here is the quote from my previous post that people seem to keep ignoring.

"Are things broken? yes. I think that laws need to be improved (at the state level, not federal) about offering health insurance to chronically ill people at a reasonable cost. I think there should be a safety net for them. As usual it seems that the very poor or the rich are covered but the hard working middle class are struggling. I think we could make that struggle easier without having the other 50% of us have to finance socialized medicine to the point where we could not afford to make our own choice with our own money."

I can't believe I forgot to add anything after that long post maryblooms39360.3144097222

Can you imagine what our nation would be like if all schooling were self-pay?� Or provided by profit-making organizations?� How many children would grow up without an education?� Our forefathers, who established programs like public schools, and other government provided programs understood that.

Quote from Hillhoney

No disrespect to you Hillhoney. But there's alot of people who are given FREE public education, run by the government that still cannot even read.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink! Just because these people have medicaid/medicare doesn't mean they use it. Or have even taken the time to sign up for it.

I have to agree with you MaryBlooms. And with you Hillhoney, our economy would fall apart if we made healthcare 100% government run. We are in too deep to change us to a foreign system. We need to find a fix that will work for us.

SICKOFDRAMA39359.9574884259After taking some public health classes, I realize that the general poor health of Americans is actually helping to fuel the rise in health costs. Health insurance is ment for a large group of healthy people to share the burden of acute illnesses. We are now a nation of chronic illnesses. There are fewer individuals now who fall into the healthy category who pay into the system but do not require the system to pay out. There are more chronic users of the health system but fewer individuals who only use the system for health maintenence. The general unhealthy culture in the US does not provide enough healthy individuals to cover both the chronically ill and acute illnesses. It is not the reason for the difficulty the health care system is having, but it does show that we can't just point the finger and the insurence companies. We are actually asking the companies to do something they were originally not designed to handle. It is time that this old school approach to insurance is revamped. It is also problematic that many do not know the extent of their medical coverage and/or buy supplemental insurance while they are healthy. I never even though to look at what my insurance covered until March and my first trip to the Rheumy. I am luck that my insurence through the hospital I work at so far has been adequate. But if I had a crystal ball and knew what was around the corner, I would have closely examined the health package while considering where I wanted to work. Caprice,

Very insightful! It is much more complex than most people realize, isn't it. I "bumped" up a post I wrote on health insurance because for most Americans it is "open enrollment" now if anyone is interested on what to do for the next year.
I don't even know if I should post here. I'll be honest, most of this goes over my head but I've been reading and trying to follow all the terminology and each side of the debate. At times, for each side of the argument I've said to myself "hmm...I can see that"

But at the end of these long 9 pages I still end up back where I started, thinking - I'm 24. I make .33 an hour. I work 45 hours a week, and the way my company "manages" things, I do not get over time. (that ones a LONG story, but yes, it's TOTALLY legal believe me I HAVE called and researched) I have a sh*tty chronic illness that I've had all my life. Since turning 21 and being "booted" out of the military health care system my life has been nothing but an uphill struggle to take care of my body AND mind. The past 3 years have seemed longer than the previous 21. No one said being an adult was easy and I'm fully aware of that. I could have/should have gone to college and "gotten a better job" But the fact of the matter is, I didn't and SOMEONE has to run the front desk of a resort hotel so that the multi-million dollar junkies have a place to crash in July.

So here I sit, not even middle class, trying not only to pay my power bill (which is completely wrong, corrupt and overpriced) my water bill (thank god IS reasonable) my car insurance, my car note so I can make it the 30 miles one way to and from work every day and all the other bills I require to live, and not go insane. To feed myself, etc etc. The only insurance offered by my company costs me about before taxes - that's medical and dental. Sounds like a steal, right? Wrong. I've been to my PCP 4 times, and my RD 3. I now have outstanding bills at each office totaling about 0. That's 0 a visit that was not covered by my insurance. That's also not including the lab fees that I owe. I don't even know what they are, and quite frankly don't care because I know I can't afford them. My prescription coverage is where they pay a month. Everything after that, is up to me.

Now you can piece all of that together and start telling me ways to "cut back" and "save money" to cover all of those bills. But as you do it, you keep in mind what you are taking away from me and my quality of life. Every time you tell me to "not go there and spend this" you think about what options you are leaving me with, and keep a picture in your head of my fading smile and dissipating laughter. You think about what I'll have (or not) to come home to. You think about what I'll spend my spare time doing, to keep my spirits up and keep me happy in life. I'm not saying it takes money to be happy, but I don't think there's a person alive that would happy, or even content to be dumping every cent of their paycheck into health care and utilities, only to come home to a house with no TV, no internet, no pets, no game systems, no "toys" not even be able to go out and enjoy a meal or buy a new outfit. And yes, that IS what I would have to give up to pay all those insane bills. Simply because I don't make enough to have "good health care coverage"

And I'm sorry (no I'm not) but America is supposed to be this great place, but when you make me start putting all of my money into ONLY things that keep me alive, and nothing that entertains me I become a shell of a person. Anyone who says they can live otherwise, is a liar or a hermit. And you know I'm right.

And I haven't even TOUCHED on my mental issues (severe anxiety and chronic panic attacks) My insurance covers no such help, btw. I don't even want to get into that. Let's move on.

So the next time you want to debate with someone over whether or not we should have socialized health care, or stick to our old plan, think of me and the God only knows how many other people worse off than I am. Think long and hard about your answer and make sure that we're taken care of too. And if we aren't, then don't stop your "argument" until you include a way for US to be taken care of too. And that goes for BOTH sides.

Those of you that want socialized health care, figure out a way to make it work BETTER than what's already out there, and tell someone who can make a change. Don't just spout it on a message board. (Not that this isn't a good thing, it's just very frustrating to be me, and watch these good ideas just sit as text on my screen)

Those who want to keep it the way it is - well I have a paypal account and if you would like to make donations to the "pay Katie's medical bills fund" I'll take what you give. Or, you can go to bed at night thinking of ways to better the system that we have, so that I don't have to wake up every day thinking that "I should have stayed in college" or "I should just do a job that I HATE to make more money" or "It would be nice if a hurricane took out my house so that Fema could pay my rent for a few months, so that I could save money to maybe move to a better part of the country" or any other WILD idea that's crossed my mind in the past 3 years in a feeble attempt to get out of this wretched state...country.......whatever.

And when all of you are done thinking about that, you think about my co-worker. She's 37 and lives in Alabama. She drives an hour and a half to make the .33 an hour that I do. No, there is no where in AL that's any closer to her that she could make even REMOTELY close to that amount of money. ( an hour a way is the highest we've found) She lives in AL because the 3 bedroom single wide trailer is paid for, so she doesn't have to worry about rent. Oh, and she has 4 kids, and the same health plan I do. Yes, she has some gov't assistance, but it doesn't do much but bring her to a balance with me. So you can imagine what thoughts run through HER head.

And know that we are not crazy, we are just very, very tired. And we just want to be able to see a doctor, get treatment, and live a normal life like "the rest of you"

And that's my 2 Cents......
arriscolwell39360.3525115741Hi Katie,
Trust me, I do think of people like you. You are around the same age as our kids and as any mother will tell you, we think much more about the health and welfare of our kids than we ever think about ourselves.

I truly do understand, if you read my previous posts I have been there, a few times. I would not assume to tell you ways to cut back, though I certainly know of many, since I have used them. Cutting back does not mean you have to sit in a corner in the dark with nothing to do either.

I don't think my kids figured out that we didn't have much money. They knew we didn't have cable (they were better off without it) and didn't go out to dinner, but they also had lots of fun. They rarely got new outfits or fancy toys, but the library and board games are cheap. We even managed to go Disneyland on the cheap. Luckily we had relatives and friends spread out between Washington and California. We stuffed 5 kids in the minivan and stayed the night at their houses and bought food at grocery stores on the way. We stayed at a cheap motel with 2 rooms and free breakfast and had a blast.

Of course they think that the youngest is spoiled rotten. There is a 5 year span between the 15 and the next oldest and there is more money to go around now with just her. I promise this will be the last time I post here

You say you want a revolution, well you know we're all doing what we can. But if you want money for people with minds that hate, all i can tell you is people you'll have to have wait, you know it's gonna be shooby-doo-wop , all right, shooby-doo-wop, bop all right...........

LEV

levlarry39363.8243981482Lev,

I think that is very unfair. I don't think anyone has been hateful in this thread. We all have ideas, thoughts and opinions. I think we expressed them and hopefully learned something. I don't think that people who are passionate are necessarily hateful.

Okay Blooms, i'll edit it but i know what i'm talking about. Mary Blooms, it's more fair than life usually is.

LEV

levlarry39363.8333912037OK, I think there is something very wrong with you and will not bother with any more responses to this post. I hope you feel better soon.

Maryblooms and all of you who posted on this thread. Please don't let it die. Although, I tend to agree with your stance on the healthcare issue Mary, I am learning so much from all the ideas and opinions put forward. Don't let larry's silliness make you stop.

I wish I could contribute to the discussion, but I am not well versed in the issue and I don't have any ideas at present on how to fix/change any of it.

But, this thread has made me think and consider different options and I commend you all for your ideas and for making me (and others I'm sure) really think hard about healthcare reform.

I'm not sure what Larry deleted - but I do think we need some sort of health revolution.

Pip

Lev. Those Beatles sure had some great songs eh? [QUOTE=Pip!]

I'm not sure what Larry deleted - but I do think we need some sort of health revolution.

Pip

[/QUOTE]

I saw it - it was nasty and hateful.

What i said was absolutely honest. If it seemed "nasty and hateful" then the nasty hateful is on someone else. There is someone on here that is a hater of America. There is a member here that wants to change the world right now and to hell with the repercusssions that she hasn't even thought of let alone investigated. And there is a member that is a hater of men, republicans and America and all most anything else. I don't hate because of sex, race, political gender, religion etc but you start running down my country, my government and think your country and people are superior, i start to become if not a hater, then a soldier. They need to change. Many of you don't know me and those that do, know that i don't blow smoke and can back up any thing that i post. I am not here for love and friendship. Bump all that hugs and kisses. I am here because i actually search for a cure for this crazy disease and when i find info or even a product that can/may relieve some of this disease, i share it here because at this forum are some good people that deserve to be helped. That those that i wouldn't douse with water if they were on fire are helped in the process is just something that i can't control. I have spent hundreds of dollars on naturals and "cures". I have spent as much time researching as many of you have chit-chatted and moaned and groaned and and boo-hooed and woe is me. How many of you have actually researched and tried a different remedy thinking, "maybe it will work". Who found the GSE? Boo hoo hoo, woe is me. I have severe rhuematoid arthritis. I quit boo-hooing, it saddens those i love. There is a way to live a very comfortable life with RA and it isn't through the use of opiods. Opiods is a trap in itself but i will leave that for another posting for those with ears and eyes that actually want to live a good life with RA. Those that want to chit-chat don't read my posting. This is serious business, this is a serious disease.

Now back to the subject i meant to stay on:

It's crazy that these newsworthy people, such as millionaire Moore, try to keep us involved in things that are too big for us. Take for example this corn fuel garbage. How do you like paying extra for everything from cereal, bread and practically every other food product because you all got on their band wagon. Are you paying less for fuel? Of course not. They just bent you over the chair and you deserve it. It is people like me that don't deserve it. Here in Michigan it is a very different landscape this year, almost all corn, not much soybean. Hmm, watch the future repercussions. Bump all the fuel talk. They keep you on these big huge "save the world missions" just so that you won't start where you should start. If you want to save the world or at least make it a better place, you have to start at home and work up. You can't start at the top like they want you to. Getting on their bandwagon takes you where they want you to go, not where you should go. If we go where we should go and not where they want us to go, guess what? The world will become a better place because we start at a place where we can make a good change. We have given away all of our power to a handfull of people that wouldn't invite us to their house with out pockets full of money. Ramble, ramble, ramble.

Some time ago a member, Jodejr i believe, had a relative that was in a nursing home or was going to one and Jodejr was quite upset about the quality of life in a nursing home, complaining that she may have to live in one some day. Hey, well let me say it a little louder, HEY, think about something small like nursing homes. They are so degrading and so expensive, good place for activist activity. It is absolutely rediculus that the old and infirm are treated so poorly by seven dollar an hour aids. For the amount of cost the residents should have their own massuer/massuese.

How many people are in prison? More prisoners and prisoners per capita in the US than any other country. Why, because it is a business. Pesident Ford's wife Betty becomes a druggie, opiods, they name a hospital after her. The poor black girl gets caught with two "dirty" rocks of crack cocaine, she loses her kids and goes to jail and from that day forward carries that scarlet letter with her. We pay about 99 dollars a day per prisoner. In this free country, what business is it of mine if a "free" human being does drugs? It is not my business or your business. They are free. Now if that druggie breaks into my house or a non druggie breaks into my or your house, put them in jail for a long time or shoot 'em when they break in, i would and will.

When a police officer pulls you over and asks where you are going, tell him it is none of his business and see how fast you are up against the car. Every citizen should pull police duty. Most police are thugs and bullies and sadistic people that like hurting people. It is a well known fact that police pull over young women knowing that if they have been drinking they will have to either blow into the breath alyzer or blow, rape by authority, pure and simple. The "blue code"? Everybody has heard of that, right? For years we just accept it. It means you don't turn on your fellow officers. What? Start small, start to take back your powers, have mercy. How would you like to be in prison? You think it's fun? It's crazy that so many of you found the abu graib prison incident appalling. Naked men, growling dogs. Be upset. What about our prisoners that have to join a gang just to be kinda safe. Someone wants the booty, oh well. Every warden should be fired. In Detroit, 911 calls may not be answered for 12 hours or more. The chief and the mayor need to be fired. If your gramma was afraid someone was breaking into her house and the police never came, shame on the mayor the chief, the police that spend most of their time at their many girfriends houses. When they wanted the police to be subject to random drug tests the union said no way. Bump that dump. Start small, take back your powers, learn mercy and compassion. What have you created when you create a criminal.

Start small, start with small things. Take back your powers. Do you have any idea of how small crime would become if we policed our own neighborhoods, not as gun toting thugs with bad attitudes.

In government, starting from the city and township there is no accountability and there is the problem and there is where you should start. Here in Michigan, we just had huge tax increases on everything they could tax. They never once asked the people, what can we do to save money, just tax em. Everyboby here in Michigan has had to tighten our belts. Pay more for health care, more co-pays and lots of etcs but, if you are with the government, you don't have to worry. Next year you will have better health insurance. You will get a raise again. You can let your belt out even more.

Ooooooooooops, gotta blast.

LEV

Lev, I usually like your posts but you are all over the place here. I agree about some of our posters being anti-american or maybe even hating men. Some of the people from another country ( not USA ) mince words all the time say one thing and do something else usually calling you names beacuse they do not agree with whatever you say. Thats the " Liberal" way . Starting small in your community , volunteering etc is a good thing. Having the neighborhood as Police officers, Bad thing ". Have you known all Police to be thugs and bullies? C'mon man 95% do there job and want to go home to their families. Corrupt ones? Sure. Same as any profession. Perhaps Lev you should stick to one topic and post about it. Not try and cover all the worlds woes in one post.Well I certainly don't want YOU policing MY neighborhood. And I'm *positive* that I'm not alone on THAT thought.You forgot to mention the men who hate women. Justsaynomore. Not sure if you were refering to me but, I don't recall any anti - woman threads. I do not read everything here so maybe I missed something but there sure have been many anti man/husband stuff. Maybe since woman get ra something like 4 to 1

Well, my post was probably all over the place and could have gone around the world and back and to the moon and back because there are so many important things that we can change that will make the world and especially our lives so much better. But, when we get on the political bandwagons, we accomplish nothing but what the chosen few want accomplished which generally costs the most of us money. Government cannot run any thing as a business. Until we start at the lower levels and vote in CEO of our cities and pay them according to the money they save and make for the citizens. In my small city, the dreams of the planners was to turn it into a bustling downtown with a more than vibrant nightlife. Now you can't drive thru downtown that is lined with nightclubs and fashionable restaurants. Well, of course we need more police, more firemen and equiptment, more and more government. Well of course every year we have fewer and fewer services, we can' afford them anymore. Most police spend all their time downtown. Taxes of course have gone up as has property values which just ups the taxes. By now with what the planners have done to our more than bustling city, we should pay no more taxes and actually receive our yearly city checks, but no, government cannot figure a way to make money when they have a pocket full of money that never runs out.

Soon enough, we will all be punished over this polution garbage. If Gore and the others were actually worried about it honestly, they would be telling everyone to slow down, drive safely and slowly and we would save so much energy and lower our polution emmissions to an extent that could only be dreamed of. That's not going to happen. We will all be taxed and penalized in the name of saving mother earth. Mother earth isn't going anywhere. We may come to an end, but earth isn't going anywhere. Stop making babies. This is the biggest reason for polution, babies. (Not that i care) Polute away, Gore's not going to stop China or india or Brazil or etcs.

65, one good thing about this forum is that i can say whatever i want. I don't worry about the arthritisforum "club" that think that they can pick and choose the members of this forum and what they can say. Two weeks ago a new member complained about the way she was treated. One of the "club members" told her that once the other members get to know her she will be more accepted. Accepted into what? The "club" of nasties? The AOL club?

Arriscolwell, i really don't care about your opinion or what your other PM club members think or say. Ever since i read that filthy "Sh*t" thread at the sushi site i have absolutely no respect for you. That you could actually talk so filthy and nasty and then invite the young children that visited this site to read the filthy nasty stuff that you and your co-horts wrote at the other site makes me sick and should have been reported to the authorities. You are a nasty girl. Even here you are one of the most vulgar talking members. Doesn't matter that young children might visit this site or that even real adults don't like the filth and vulgarity dosn't mean anything to you. Your fellow clubmembers enjoy it. Go ahead Arriscolwell, go ahead and pray.

As far as men hating women, now i've mentioned them, happy?

LEV

Even after looking over the Sushi site, I haven't the slighest idea what thread you're refering to. I really think sometimes you imagine things. But that's neither here nor there.

Levlarry, I have to agree that sometimes you decide (usually wrongly) that somebody WOULD do something and then berate them for the imagined action. I've been the butt of that more than once!

Arriscolwell,

Does this by chance refresh your memory about that filthy nasty thread called "sh*t" or would you like me to post the complete thread? Keep praying Arriscolwell, God loves a liar.

Well sh*t. Goto page 1, 2 Next RASushi Forum Index -> YaYa! View previous topic :: View next topic

Gimpy, don't talk trash. Back up what you say with a previous post. You have so many times talked down the United States. Shame on you, you give pot smokers a bad name. It's fine to be proud of your country, but it's not fine to berate a good neighbor that protects your yellow ass.

LEV

I guess if not agreeing with you and your opinions="hating America" then I
can't argue with your assessment.

Although would you PLEASE, PLEASE stop "protecting" my yellow ass? Wow Lev did that Arriscolwell person really say that ??? High class chick Eh?

Yep, and it was in a test forum where we were all talking about cussing and dirty words. And it's kept in that forum only. I beleve there's even a disclaimer about it, so that before you enter it, you're aware that there may be things unsuitible for kids. *shrugs* You don't have to like it.

I am not a liar, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

I think it's absolutely HYSTERICAL that you judge me as a person based on a little thread on MY FORUM that was about nothing in particular.

as for you 6t5 - you sure just jump around with who you like and dislike don't you? One minute you're all over lev, and the next you're so far up his ass, it's just sad. OMG! now & then39368.7363773148Yup....A real Classy chick. Sorry It's you who looks pretty pathetic here. Nice forum you run.

Where is Blessed in all her self-righteous glory? I figured she would jump on this post with both feet. I guess she just voices her "concerns" when it suits her, hmmmmm.

Katie...I don't even know what to say. I'm shocked, to say the least.

Phats

Katie...I don't even know what to say. I'm shocked, to say the least.

Phats

Phats, I can't believe that you are shocked. Doesn't surprise me at all. I recall that I hinted to Katie that she was a 20 something smartass and this proves my point.

N&T,

A smarta** is one thing, and that she truly is. This puts a whole different spin on things. This is just plain vulgar, no matter how you look at it. I hope she doesn't kiss her mother with that mouth.

Phats

uptight and snippity? Pul-heas.....when you get a few more years under your belt, then you MIGHT be justified in making such a comment.

My comment has nothing to do with being uptight and snippity. It has to do with conducting yourself appropriately on a public forum. You should be ashamed of yourself, Katie. Instead of just biting the bullet and apologizing, you have to point the finger at others....another sign of immaturity.

[QUOTE=Phatgirl2]

Where is Blessed in all her self-righteous glory? I figured she would jump on this post with both feet. I guess she just voices her "concerns" when it suits her, hmmmmm.

Katie...I don't even know what to say. I'm shocked, to say the least.

Phats

[/QUOTE]

What in the world is your problem???? Get a life Phats...are you that bored that ALL you can do is look for opportunities to attack people?

You are truly pathetic and feel really sorry for you.

Blessed,

Nobody put a quarter in you. mind your own business. this has nothing to do with you.

And-yet-you-brought-her-into-it.

Interesting.

Really,-you-can't-handle-a-few-"bad-words"=typed-out-to-see- how-the-word-filters-worked?

Wow.-and-after-all-the-"colorful"-things-I-post-on-this-foru m-as-well.

I'm-still-laughing. [QUOTE=Phatgirl2]

Blessed,

Nobody put a quarter in you. mind your own business. this has nothing to do with you.

[/QUOTE]

You brought me into it simpleton!!! You are so calling the kettle black with calling Katie immature. Why don't you take your ball and go home little girl....I think you need to chill out!!

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