OT !!!! Saying the Pledge | Arthritis Information

Take a peak at Presidentail Canidate Obama....Hard to believe but True www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem Look at the video!site you listed doesn't work.try www.snopes.com/politics/obama.anthem.asp nope if not go to snopes and search "obama anthem " that will lead you there

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

try this one....

I went to Snopes and looked at the video. Personally, if I would have had to stand there and listen to that awful vocal rendition of the Anthem I would have had stood there with my hands over my ears!

All politicians are caught in circumstances that are highlighted by the opposite party as being unpatriotic. You can't be on your toes every single moment, not even Bush. Ever looked at the Bush videos or better yet listened to one of his speeches. That seems to be the language de jour (unpatriotic) to blast your opponent.

I don't care if they're Dems or Repub they are human and there will be slip ups. With Obama it's more important for the anit Obama people to point out his behavior because of who he is. Lindy

As it says on Snopes - we could not find any informations substantiating the claim (made in the text accompanying some versions of the e-mailed photo) that Senator Obama "refused to say the Pledge of Alliegence".

Also, all 4 candidates are looking at something 'off screen'.

This is, again, a straw man arguement, posted to incite anger, and using a link that doesn't work right, to say something is true, but not using all the info on the page.

Pip

" You can't be on your toes every single minute " Sorry but this was the national Anthem. All the canidates but him know what to do. For Gods sake he is running for office the highest office . I agree that singer was dreadfull. His rep confirms his lake of knowlegde it would appear. PIP link works and the video speaks for itself. There were no scarecrows. I did not say he refused but he sure chose to not participate. I'm sure if somehow he gets the Dem nod this video will show up. I have to disagree this is a straw man argument (although that doesn't
mean there isn't relevant information left out). A straw man argument is
when you specifically attrribute a certain false opinion or stance to your
OPPONENT so you can then knock them down. (Although I guess it could
be a straw man argument if the video posters are the straw man setter-
uppers and Obama is the opponent. Drrr---I spent so much time typing
this I'm leaving it posted!).

From Wikipedeia: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on
misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man"
or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to
refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. Often, the straw man
is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position.[1] A straw man
argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed
in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the
opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
Its name is derived from the practice of using straw men in combat
training. In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy
with the single intent of attacking it.[3] It is occasionally called a straw
dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument. Placing your hand over you heart during the pledge should be second nature to any American (no matter the party). How pathetic and disrespectful!! Blessed39388.4268518519

Damn baseball players! They do it all the time! I think baseball should be outlawed as they are making a mockery of the "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet" Americana!

Pip

Let the video speak for itself PIP. I'm not making any Strawman anything. All but him acted properly. How can that be misinterpreted Sorry if he is your canidate. there were rumors that he doesnt do it for religious reasons...i am confused. his camp hasnt made a bold statement as to why he didnt put his hand over his heart, you would think campaigning he would be uber pc...idk its so weird. its like he is the golden boy and then this, its confusing to me bc i have paid so little attention to the race this time

He's Protestant. Not Muslim.

Pip

Yeah, but illegally wiretapping citizens, torture, embezellment of public funds, high treason, and voter fraud pale before this scandal!

An outsiders view. You, as in americans do the pledge, hand on heart thing, we curtsey, bow to the queen.

No matter what your personal beliefs most countries seem to have 'protocols' which 'just are'.

I have always felt very strongly that Cheri Blair's refusal to curtsey to the queen was one of total ignorance. Ergo 'no hand over heart' is the same.

Is it not all about pride in who you are and where you come from, and a carrying on of traditions? Unfortunately a lot of people dont have respect for their elders or anything else for that matter and it shows in what I call little 'defiances'. Almost like children stamping their feet and saying 'I'm not going to'.

Its the changing informal world we live in and I for one dont like it.

It's just endless, and it takes away from the real issues.

Hillhoney, not sniping, just observing.

Gimpy, No scandal but an observation that many might find interesting.

Is it a law that I'm not aware of that you have to put your hand over your heart? I was taught - and this was through the military and military schools, BTW - that standing still (at attention) with your hands at your sides was 100% acceptable. As long as you were facing the flag. I don't always put my hand over my heart, sometimes you can't.

I'm at work, so I can't see the video, but I'm gathering that he held his hands over his ears during the song? Since I haven't seen it, I'm wondering how close to a speaker he was standing. If his head was right next to one, I don't know that I could blame him for protecting his ears, those things can be killer!

katie, he was just standing still with his arms at your side...From watching it he wasnt doing anything distrespectfuly persay....I live in Illinois; I voted for Obama in the last election. He promised the taxpaying, voting citizens of Illinois that if we elected him, he would serve as our senator for the next 6 years. Well, he broke that campaign promise. And I lost all respect for him.

Shannon - well then I guess, according to the military, he was just fine. Actually the protocol is listed I think on the Snopes article. Hand over chest is correct. Jasminerain. Like in NY when Hillary said the same thing...she liedThat's funny......then I guess almost 90% of my DODDs teachers....my father's superiors...etc etc etc for the past, oh 21 years for me, and I think 38 for my dad were just wrong wrong wrong. Amazing! [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Yeah, but illegally wiretapping citizens, torture, embezellment of public funds, high treason, and voter fraud pale before this scandal! [/QUOTE]

In which none of these involve you...

[QUOTE=Blessed] [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Yeah, but illegally wiretapping citizens, torture, embezellment of public funds, high treason, and voter fraud pale before this scandal! [/QUOTE]

In which none of these involve you...
[/QUOTE]

Any one of the things mentioned above done to a US Citizen and/or done by a person representing US Citizens does involve and affect all of us.

Not long ago it was brought out that the press stage pictures (like a the same teddy bear shown in 2 or more pictures at different places after a bombing and the same lady in blue (a mom both times) in different pictures supposedly at different locations) - so unless I actually saw this with my own eyes I just wouldn't give it a second thought - if it is true however; he should be asked about it and he should answer the question. Goes back to the fact that they don't answer questions so we may never know for sure one way or the other. [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Argh...it's hard to talk about this stuff without saying things like what I just said. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when a country is involved in an illegal occupation of a sovereign nation, the internal politics of that country becomes a concern for the whole world. I was reluctant to just say that because I didn't want to spark a whole new thread of debate on the legality of the Iraqi occupation. Also, the people being illegally detained and sometimes tortured are not exclusively American citizens. To say that someone not American does not have a right to comment on the policies of the Bush administration is sort of ludicrous.

Also, American privacy laws affect Canadians in a very real way, because of the way information is handled internationally.
[/QUOTE]

Let's not confuse OPINIONS with facts! � 171. Conduct during playing National Anthem

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all
present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag
with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove
their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the
hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military
salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last
note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward
the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were
displayed there.

I think anyone running for the highest office in the nation(and everyone
else) should be saluting the flag. This IS a reflex action for all Americans.
If you live in America, respect the flag, salute it, take care of it. Seeing
this, if it is true and it is hard not to believe the video, I just don't know
what to think of him. It reminds me of some of the pompous doctors I
work with. I'm so disgusted with the whole political scene in the US right
now. Did he offer an explanation for this to the media? [QUOTE=Blessed]
[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Argh...it's hard to talk about this stuff without
saying things like
what I just said. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when a country
is involved in an illegal occupation of a sovereign nation, the
internal politics of that country becomes a concern for the whole
world. I was reluctant to just say that because I didn't want to spark
a whole new thread of debate on the legality of the Iraqi occupation.
Also, the people being illegally detained and sometimes tortured are
not exclusively American citizens. To say that someone not
American� does not have a right to comment on the policies of the
Bush administration is sort of ludicrous.

Also, American privacy laws affect Canadians in a very real way, because
of the way information is handled internationally.

[/QUOTE]Let's not
confuse OPINIONS with facts! [/QUOTE]

Maybe you should do your homework and look up what a sovereign
nation is. Iraq is/was a sovereign nation before we invaded. Now I'm not
really sure what they are...I guess you could call them an occupied
country. Hmmm. I guess Saddam Hussein should have reconsidered whe he chose not to honor his agreement, don't you think, Lorster? Had he only let us in to inspect as per his agreement, this whole thing might have been avoided.Linncn. Saddam was another Hitler as far as I'm concerned. Given more
time, he would have killed many more than he did (and he killed many). He
and his sons were three horrible human beings who deserve to be dead and
I'm very thankful to our country for doing away with them. That is the part
of the occupation that is good. My beef is that we should have let the Iraqis
take these murderers out themselves. That was their job. Not ours. Iraq
didn't attack the US. We have made many more enemys than we have
destroyed. I would like to see us protected, on OUR soil. How can our
soldiers protect us here, while in Iraq? It just seems so crazy to me.We aren't attacking Iraq. We are attacking the terrorists who have set up camp there. 9/11 was not their first attack on us, they have been attacking us for decades. How many times should we let them hit us before we hit back??You know I am getting sick and tired of the sniping back and forth I am to the point I don't give a care who does what anymore because all it does here is make hurt feelings, insults, and judgemental comments of each other. Yes he should have had his hand over his heart but if the singer was bad I can understand it. I have extemely sensitive ears myself and when certain sounds are made, which includes high pitch singing, I have to cover my ears because the pain caused by the sound is terrible. We may not like each other canidates or choices but we do not not need to belittle anyone, so come on folks lets grow up!!! meme meme, Obama didn't cover his ears and the bad singing is totally not the point. The point is this man is vying for the highest position held in the U.S. ...he should have enough patriotism and respect for the flag and country to adhere to protocol. What I don't understand is why a bunch of murderous religious extremists
were being harboured in a country led by a murderous secular dictator who
was opposed to the said religious extremist beliefs.

I don't think I have all the facts, but I'm starting to have little inklings of
doubt that's what happened.

And then why didn't Bush just say that instead of making up stories about
WMDs? It's really confusing the way the reson for the occupation keeps
changing.

Well, the vast majority of intelligence worlwide indicated that SH did have WMD. I think he did and I think that's what he was doing while he was busy keeping inspectors out or giving them the run-around, getting the WMD out into Syria.

AS I SAID I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPEN!!! I am asking people to please stop fighting and insulting each other it is down right disgusting and we should be all ashamed of ourselves for the way we are acting!!!

"vast majority of intelligence worlwide" ?

I thought the vast majority of the world was unsure and wanted to give the
inspectors more time. And then I thought the UN represented a lot of said
world and they were against the invasion. I think we might be getting
different news. There was a lot going on at the time.

So what do you think happened to these never found WMDs? [QUOTE=lorster] [QUOTE=Blessed]
[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Argh...it's hard to talk about this stuff without
saying things like
what I just said. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when a country
is involved in an illegal occupation of a sovereign nation, the
internal politics of that country becomes a concern for the whole
world. I was reluctant to just say that because I didn't want to spark
a whole new thread of debate on the legality of the Iraqi occupation.
Also, the people being illegally detained and sometimes tortured are
not exclusively American citizens. To say that someone not
American does not have a right to comment on the policies of the
Bush administration is sort of ludicrous.

Also, American privacy laws affect Canadians in a very real way, because
of the way information is handled internationally.

[/QUOTE]Let's not
confuse OPINIONS with facts! [/QUOTE]

Maybe you should do your homework and look up what a sovereign
nation is. Iraq is/was a sovereign nation before we invaded. Now I'm not
really sure what they are...I guess you could call them an occupied
country. [/QUOTE]

I have thank you...I was referring to the OPINION of "an illegal occupation" Meme, (almost) no one is fighting or dissing each other on this thread---
we're just talking.

I'm out of here anyway go ahead and do what you want, you guys are never going to stop.

OMG...I just realised Meme might be sending Marvin over! Her own WMD!
"You have made me very angry....very angry, indeed!"

meme~ it's one year til election time...we all need to be informed. Sure, political debates get heated...you're wasting you're time trying to moderate an unmoderated board. Just don't read the OT threads, and stick around, we're all adults here Oh no here he comes again!!! < =text/>_popupControl();

My RD is an Obama supporter. I think I will ask him when I see him on Monday his opinion of what that video shows. Yes, I actually have the kind of RD that I can talk with like that. Irregardless of his political views, he is an awesome doctor that I wouldn�t trade for the world.

Gimpy, I'm sorry. I don't understand your comment.Linncn, I was just making a joke 'cause I have to leave the house now so I couldn't continue on the thread. How did Gimpy hijack this pledge thing into an Iraq war debate?You'd better git, 6t5!!!! We ain't supposed to be in these here parts!! Linncn no it is a joke between Gimpy and me about Marvin that's all. Oh well I can't sleep maybe I'll play some MahJong fo awhile, the relaxing music that palys during the game gets me sleepy. Goodnight meme39388.8858796296 < =text/>_popupControl(); Meme...I play Mah Jongg when I can't sleep too!! Awesome game!! Sooooooo addicting!!! Try and get some sleep hunny!!!
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