Finished two weeks of antibiotics for H.Pylori and decided to take Manuka Honey daily (antibacterial) to ensure the H.Pylori doesnt come back. I've gone into some kind of flare and wondered if this could be what is called a herx????? Does anyone know how I can tell the difference between a flare and a herx? Feeling a bit fluey and achey particularly in some joints.
Anna_ uk
Sorry you aren't feeling well! My daughter hasn't herxed (unless she is now), but since I don't think any APer's are around right now, I'll take a shot and share my understanding. I think herxes coincide with antibiotic dosing and are short-lived. Flares last longer and come more randomly. I know I will be corrected if I've confused something LOL.
There is info on roadback.org, check under Frequently Asked Questions, I think. Take care.
No, you pretty much got it right, Suzanne.
Oh, Anna, I've read that about the honey. Supposedly it can also help with repairing the stomach lining. Tell me more, please! How did you come to decide on that type instead of the others?
As for the herx - when we first start AP we tend to flare almost from the onset. Most people cannot tell the difference between a herx and a flare because the die off is so much more at first. People on ABX for specific bacterial infections (pneumonia, H. Pylori, sinuses) usually get a Big Gun antibiotic (levanox, etc) which kills a lot of microbes in one fell swoop. From posts here, I've noticed that most report they did really well on the ABX and then got hit big time either just at the end of the antibiotics or immediately afterwords. To me that spells 'herx'.
It's really hard to believe that a 'herx' and feeling bad for a bit means that you're healing. If you were to keep going on the antibiotics and lowered your microbial load enough, you eventually notice that the 'flare/herx' is dose related - meaning - take a antibiotic and get a 'flare/herx' that tends to subside somewhat at about 22 hours later. People that pulse tend to notice this phenomena sooner as they are always giving their body 'time off' from bug killing.
Once we notice that it's dose related its a heck of a lot easier to say...whoa...this really is working the way it's supposed to so better hang on as it's going to be a bumpy ride! LOL
For me, (pulsing MWF) I noticed fairly soon that I would start feeling better Tuesday and Thursday nights when the ABX 'wore off'. Of course, I'd take another pill the next day and 'flare/herx' again. Sigh. Eventually I was better on S,M,T,W and was worse on Th, Fr, Sa. Then I was better S, M, T, W, Th and worse on Fr and Sa. Finally, now, the only time I feel anything remotely 'herx-like' is on T and Th when we added Zith in. Does this make sense?
Feeling fluey and achy are classic herx signs. It's very common on Minocin or any of the tetracyclines.
If it's too bad, you might try the whole lemon/olive oil recipe we use for herxing to help the liver process toxins better.
I've been looking for a non-APer to try this when a flare is coming to see if it helps them like it helps us. I'm guessing yes because it helps AIDS patients and they have no T cells and we have extra so...it should work for everybody.
Hugs,
Pip
pip,
I've been looking for a non-APer to try this when a flare is coming to see if it helps them like it helps us. [/QUOTE]
My beloved Mother (who for lack of a better descriptor could have been described as back-to-basics non-professional practitioner of naturopathy) used a similar concoction using whatever citrus was most plentiful. As there were a lot of us and we did not live in country where citrus grew, plentiful equated to cheapest. At least three times a week she would provide everyone with a drink. Not having a blender, she would squeeze the citrus, grate the rind, add the olive oil (which in those days was purchased in twenty-five gallon barrels) and then filtered water as she was whisking it to a froth.
For years I kept the practice up on my own, but when life got busy I unfortunately let that ritual slide.
NOW! that long-winded preamble was to ask a relatively simple question: does the protocol mention other citrus or must it be lemons.
I bought ten lemons at the market of Wednesday and admit to having to swallowing hard at the price. 99 cents each, while sitting next to them was a bin of limes at ten-for-a-dollar.
I understand that "you get what you pay for" and that health cannot be evaluated in terms of $$, but we do live on a fixed income and every expenditure needs to be taken into account.
IF you have read all the way through this, thank you! I appreciate your time and attention and anticipate any response.
Con brio. Happ
anna - I have just started my fourth month of AP and have suddenly re-developed terrible carpel tunnel syndrome, which is a symptom of RA. It only happens at night. Plus the worst part is in my big knuckle of my middle finger (thx J :).
So, it slowly dawned on me two things: I have a herniated (not ruptured) disc in my neck on the right side and its my right hand thumb, first and second fingers that are hurting and numb (I used to be married to a Chiropractor for 22 years and managed his practice for 15, so some of the nervous system/bones stuff stuck). Then I remembered when I was a kid I had a terrible hornet sting in this knuckle that is just plain killing me and the ultram isnt touching it.
My point is that after four months on AP, two of my weak points (the neck injury and the stung knuckle) are flaring on me big time. And they are JOINTS or DISCS, which is where RA hides and attacks.
I am hoping its a "herx" and its the part of AP working on my worst two RA hidey holes I have, and know I have to push through this tremendous pain to get to the gold ring. I don't know if I am making sense, but I hope I am.
Best of luck, and never give up. Cathy
JSNM -
Tell me you're using the WL/OO recipe, please. It really does help. And I wanted to mention that my worst joint was my right shoulder. When I herxed it started there and kept coming back to the area. But each time it got less and less. So...didn't you mention you had relief in your hands in the beginning. I think it sounds like what happened to me - kind of a 're-attack' until it is done.
Happ -
You might check www.keephopealive.org (or com, can't remember) and see if you can find the whole thread. I remember reading at one time why the person who developed the recipe chose lemons but I can't remember the exact reason. Maybe the info is there. For me, I was so bad off and so scared I was afraid to experiment at all. Now, I'm much more willing to make changes. Anyway, my only concern would be...maybe 2 or 3 limes to make the same size of the lemon?!?!? How does that figure into the price? One time my husband came home with thes gigantic lemons and I almost fainted. They were HUGE! I hate lemon!
Pip
Pip - I wasn't having hand problems in the beginning, certain not this recent carpel tunnel. My hands were swollen because I was "fat" like Michele I guess.We have a wonderful bush/tree in the yard called a "Limon". It must be a hydrid because in the summer it produces limes and the winter it produces giant lemons. They grow great in the south.
Cathy,
Carpal tunnel is a definite sign of thyroid problems too. Always keep on top of thyroid function with blood work as it can mimic so many things. (Not just TSH but the T3FREE and T4FREE in blood checks)
[QUOTE=stemcell4me]We have a wonderful bush/tree in the yard called a "Limon". It must be a hydrid because in the summer it produces limes and the winter it produces giant lemons. They grow great in the south.[/QUOTE]Oooh, send me the recipe!
Pip
OK...I have mined through part of the wealth of information at the site Pip linked to. This is what jumped out at me