But anyone who has "known" me on this forum knows that I generally stay far, far away from the controversial posts.
However, I am getting very concerned about the way we are treating each other, not just lacking the politeness and niceties of community, but in presuming too much about knowing the other person and telling them what to do.
I don't know you. I may think I do. I may know certain things you've chosen to reveal, and I may be able to guess about things you've implied or I may be able to deduce from your posts. But I still don't know you. And likewise you don't know me.
Some of you may actually really know each other, beyond these boards, and that is great. But I would encourage you not to use that knowledge to hold a private conversation in public.
And for the rest of us that don't really know each other, I'd encourage us to keep that in mind when we are sharing parts of ourselves and when we are commenting on what others have shared.
None of us have all the answers, and your answers may not be my answers anyway. I still think we can share what works for us without insisting the other way is wrong. And if the person chooses not to take your advice, that's fine, just keep walking your own path and let them walk theirs. Sometimes it is hard to hear about each other's suffering and natural to want to help, but we all must make our own decisions.
I suppose it's difficult not to voice an opinion. It's impossible to give advice unless you know both sides of the story. And as we all know, there are always two sides. Well said. Thank goodness someone said it! Thank you InnerGlow!I generally try to stay away from the controversial posts too, but I’ll be the first to admit I couldn’t help myself this time. I probably should have waited a few days before posting; my replies are less passionate that way.
I’m really sorry if I offended you.
kweenb, you most certainly did not offend me, if anything I think you were one of the people who was trying to say the same thing I am, but perhaps in a different way.
I am being quite sincere when I say this was not directed to any one person, or even a couple of specific people. I think it's probably hard for all of us...we are all suffering or have suffered with this condition, whether it afflicts us personally or our loved ones, and we want to help and we feel like we all know each other. It's a double-edged sword this "knowing each other" business. I am very glad to have made the acquaintence of all of you, and have been grateful for your support and the support of others, but I too must remind myself that I haven't walked in your shoes, even if they are the same RA color
Speaking of which, I think us RA folk may need different metaphors than walking the path and walking in shoes, cause this walking thing is tough!
thank you for your words......
Hugs
Great post Innerglow.I do not agree with the "tough love" approach...(sorry Katie, you know I love ya). It can be very hurtful and maybe even dangerous. When someone is in a fragile state of pain, depression, financial problems, Dr woes, and family problems, they need uplifting, kindness, and a few words of comfort. I'm a firm believer in you don't kick someone when they're down, all in the name of the "tough love" theory. Thats just my opinion. Everybody has one. I always pull for the underdog of the moment, just my personality. It hurts me to see someone hurting...I don't want to add to their pain. It's not my place or yours to psychoanalize a person you don't really know, no matter how many initals follows your name. Yes Jenna this is directly to you. You come on too strong and opinionated for someone who SAYS they have been lurking for a year or so. hmmmm.?
[QUOTE=Jesse88]When someone makes multiple posts and asks us to listen, they're looking to us for comfort and sometimes advice. The person posting with a problem opens him/herself to the whole package when posting. They can't just say, "I'm having a problem, I want you to help me, support me, listen to me, but don't say anything I might not like." If someone has spent a lot of time "listening," and has tried multiple times to help and it seems there is no progress being made, it may feel like the next step is to kindly (and I do mean kindly) offer other thoughts and suggestions as to what may be going on under the surface. If we're going to post and ask for help, we have to be prepared to get all kinds of answers because there are all kinds of people out there with their own contributions to make. [/QUOTE]
I understand what you are saying and the motivation that is there. However, I really don't think most of us know each other enough to know whether "no progress is being made" or whether the person just hasn't found the right answers (for them) yet. I understand how it might feel like the next step to offer thoughts and suggestions about "under the surface", but I don't think I'd feel qualified to comment like that on the posts of someone I only know through this forum. If they keep making the same complaints and asking for the same help, obviously my answer wasn't helpful to them, and I don't need to continue responding to them. That would only cause frustration and hurt feelings on both sides.
We should be prepared to receive all kinds of answers to our posts, but we should also have the ability to decide for ourselves which are helpful to us without being analyzed, no matter how kindly.
< =text/>_popupControl();Listening and support are most definitely part of our purpose here. Supporting someone means giving them advice when they post. If a person keeps posting the same thing day in and day out and they don’t take the advice they seemingly are looking for, it tends to get just a wee bit frustrating. Sometimes frustration does come out in anger. Also please keep in mind as has been said here before, there really are two sides to every story. Plus all the other daily routine frustrations and other frustrations going on in someone’s life. So, sometimes even the nicest of people can lose their tempers once in awhile. And don’t forget we are a bunch of very strong and opinionated women around here too lol. Not that the guys aren’t strong etc. we just outnumber them lol. As it should be lol. IM KIDDING PLEASE LAUGH AND SMILE!!!!
We have all been there done that in regards to depression (some of us are there and visit there sometimes) because of chronic pain, the financial situations this disease has put us in, the inability to be as we were before RA, and a myriad of other very valid reasons that we would be depressed or angry sometimes. I really just feel that there does come a time to pick up yourself up by the bootstraps and do something to turn your situation around instead of being in a constant state of hurting yourself. No loved one likes to see that and at times it does breed tension and frustration about the entire situation from them. But that can be resolved when the time is right for the individual person to say hey…enough is enough…I am going to do something about my situation. There are times I have my down days but I am the type of person where they only last a few days and then I take a good hard look at myself and my situation and say what can I do to turn this around into something that works for me and not against me. Some people just take longer to do that.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is ok to be down…it is ok to vent…but…if you post the same things day in and day out on a support forum where support is given (often in the form of hey you can do this or this to help) and you are like…oh whatever…it is very frustrating for the people answering posts because they think you need help and advice. And like I said before…frustration often comes out in the form of anger. I am by no means saying that it is right or it is ok…I am just saying that is what happens. So, maybe when reading posts and you are going to answer a post, take a look at your response. Is the tone of your post the tone you want someone to use with you? There are ways of getting your point across being firm yet kind and caring. Is your response to someone firm but still kind? If you find yourself getting to the point with someone on the board where you just want to throw your hands up and say I’m done…try to do it somewhat kindly. If you can’t, then do not respond to that person’s posts anymore! Just blip over them! Moderate yourself. We are all adults here and out of high school. There really is no need for high school drama etc. If I want high school drama I simply ask my 15 year old daughter how her day was at school. And then sit there for the next hour listening to all the drama lol.
I do have to say I have never seen a more caring, supportive, and kind group of people in my life. But, please keep in mind we are all human, we all have frustrations in our lives, and sometimes we do slip up and things come out in anger. A nice gentle nudge of a reminder is sometime all it takes to get back on track to kindness.
Dear Moana, I haven't psychoanalyzed Joonie or anyone on this board. I have simply stated things how I see them from MY perspective. I attempted to offer my advice, just as others have done. Whether you like or take my advice is not my concern. I think sometimes people need to KNOW how they are portraying themselves. Is it harmful that numerous people have written on here to Joonie how they see her portraying herself and her situation? How so? If it makes Joonie upset, there must be something of truth to what they are saying that hits home. Change is painful. Realizing truths about ourselves is painful. If someone gives me advise or constructive criticism in some area of my life, I tend to get angry at the stuff that hits too close to home. The stuff that I know has nothing to do with me or my situation I just brush aside. Why get worked up by another person's interpretation of me or my problem, particularly a stranger on the internet? Take what works and leave the rest. If you are posting your problems on a public forum and can't take someone telling you how they see it, perhaps you should be talking to someone in private rather than online. If Joonie were in group therapy, trust me, people would be offering similar advice as what many on here have said. I have no power to do harm to someone. Each person must take responsibility for their own feelings and how they react to others (strangers included). Apparently Joonie was concerned enough to find an online self-help test and diagnosed herself with dysthymia (a type of depression, by the way).
And about the "tough love theory", a million Dr. Phil fans would disagree with you. The reason he is so popular is...he tells it like it is.
A conclusion I've come to recently has been.......
It seems that there are those who do not feel loved, accepted or validated in other areas of their lives, so they seek out support forums to get their needs met. It's up to each individual to decide if they are using forums as a replacement for real relationships, or if they are simply a supplement to the real relationships.
something to ponder anyhow.
Grammaskittles,
You are ALWAYS the voice of reason. Glad you're here!
Jenna you are kidding yourself if you think the power of the pen can't do harm to someone. Dr Phil takes the time to do a one on one history of who he councils, surely you don't think his shows are impromptu, spur of the moment, segments. Think of the lawsuits he would be brought under if, contracts weren't signed, liability wasn't waived, and a compete set of rules and regulations werent brought forth. Before he ever goes on the air.
Let me rephrase my stance on tough love. It does work much of the time for someone you have personally known, husband, child, sibling,..etc... and you are the care giver. Tough love is a responsibility of the gaurdian of a self destructing loved one, when all else has failed.
You don't know anyone on this board well enough to use tough love. It makes you offensive, obnoxious, and self glorifying. IMO.
< =text/>_popupControl(); That is the great thing about these boards. We don't always have to agree and you can learn something from someone else's perspective at times. However, be nice and agree to disagree.
Dr. Phil fans lol. I am a *huge* Dr. Phil fan and the reason I do like him is that he does tell it like it is. I personally *like* being told how it is. I don't want anyone to beat around the bush with me. You can practice tough love with someone in a very gentle yet firm manner. It is like dealing with an addict. I have much experience with that since I have a family member that is an addict. We *had* to do tough love with her. We could no longer enable her addiction. That can translate over to situations like this. Sometimes you just can no longer enable someone's depression or their not wanting to make themselves feel better. That is tough love. Tough love really means I am going to love you, but I am not going to enable you any longer. If you want to continue with this type of behavior, you must do it without me being a part of it. I still love and care for you and about you and will always be here for you when you decide to something for yourself that will make you feel good about yourself. Until then, I can no longer watch you self destruct or be a part of it. I know it is weird, but in the end...people will thank you for tough loving them. I know it seems like helping someone, but enabling someone really is hurting them in the long run. When I was going through the addiction with my family member, some of the people here know about it, and without them giving ME some tough love, I never would have realized that my enabling and not giving my addict in my life tough love was bad not only for her, but for me too. Enabaling someone in a depression or in a self destruct mode is very harmful to them and to you.
I really feel there is nothing wrong with gently but firmly telling someone just how it is. Whether they take that advice is totally up to them. How you handle them not taking or taking that advice you are giving is also totally up to you.
I sooooo agree, but, as you all know, I sorta was talking about specific people. You must be nicer than me, Suzanne.In all fairness, a lot of us typed harsh words. Even some of the words that you thought would be helpful to Joonie, I thought were very rude.
No Jenna you didn't call Joonie any names, you only implied the name calling by saying "you sound like you are" over and over. So I do apologize for not saying "you sound like you are being obnoxious, self glorifing, and offensive". Not implying that you are, just "sounds like you are."
Edited by me...used a wrong word.
Holy crap, the female hormones are running rampant today!
I don't know what happened and really don't care to know because it's not going to accomplish anything. I come to this board for support and encouragement and the occassional laugh from a light-hearted post.
Send this drama llama packing!
I have to agree with the last two posts about the drama, but it is also what draws me to this board. I go to a couple of other boards to read about RA and diabetes and this is by far the most active and enlightening. There is a tone of terror on the other boards about posting something that isn't allowed or having it deleted by the moderators, or you better watch yourself. It's crap. You are the only people I know with RA, going through the same kind of physical and emotional havoc this disease can cause.Thankyou Innerglow for bringing this issue up! For quite a while now I have only been reading posts and occasionally putting a post on very generalized things. Alot has been going on for me re RA and it's complications. To be honest I would'nt dream of sharing much of how this has affected my life recently as I feel as if I might get thrown to the wolves(not much comfort in that)Getting other's opinions is healthy as it can give you a fresh perspective on a situation. Unfortunately I feel like Vicky right now that it makes me nervous to post also. This site has alot of potential for helping alot of people who are in crisis from this horrible disease, isn't that what is was intended for? Girls, From this blokes point of view, Jenna comes across as thoughtful (and thought provoking at times), intelligent, and caring type of person.To me the answer is simple. It goes back to what I said about there being a separate thread (only partly in jest) that lets everyone know that it's a post for venting, ranting, gaining support and sympathy and nothing else. If you know it's that type of post and you feel like you just can't go over the same issues once again, and/or offer the support needed, you can simply ignore that particular post, because you know in advance your advice isn't really wanted/needed/heeded anyway. We should be able to write that kind of venting post if we want, but it would be nice for others to know in advance if it's the "support only" kind of post so they can choose whether to offer the support needed or ignore that post altogether. Once you read it, it's harder to just "walk away." That's what I like about the OT political posts. Being titled that way, I know at a glance what to expect and if I don't think I can handle it, I just don't open it.
I'll say it again...when we post, we invite and expose ourselves to the opinions, prejudices, frustrations, and more of each and every person who reads our post. Some will respond in a way we don't like. It's a chance we take and the more often we post, the more exposure we have. It's no wonder a couple of people here have just mentioned being nervous about posting. I can see why, but truly, for the most part, the people here are caring, mature, sensible adults who are trying to say what they think is the right thing, and everyone is not going to agree with them. We all just have to agree to disagree.
VERY NICE THREAD INNERGLOWJesse, I am not suggesting you are doing this; I am just respectfully disagreeing with the idea that special notation should be required to avoid this behavior. There's freedom of speech, but there's also not yelling fire in a crowded theater.
And I do think the community will suffer, and in fact is already suffering, from people's reluctance to post after seeing some of this behavior. I know I have been re-thinking what I share. It just makes me sad.
I'm very selective in how and to what threads I respond to. I just don't want to deal with other's anger. I'm astonished at the tone of some of the responses and the inappropriate name calling.
The community has already suffered. I've been part of this community for about 3 years, and yes, they've had squabbles in the past but nothing like the present threads. The whole atmosphere of the forum has changed. I'm pondering if I want to continue as a member. I'm sure I'm not the only one rethinking their commitment to the forum. I've been thinking about this for the past week or so and even more so this morning, after I read a response to one of the posters who is very kind and responds to everyone.
In fact as I'm writing I think this will be my last post for awhile. I've made my mind up that I don't want to be part of a forum where people won't behave in a civilized manner and treat one another with respect and compassion. I don't want anyone to say "please stay" because it's not going to happen.
I may come back to this forum when it settles down again and people rein in their anger and resentment. Right now I don't feel that this forum is offering me anything and I certainly can't offer the advice I'd like to because I don't want to deal with some of the posters. It's a decision based on my belief system just as much as what is happening on the forum. I just don't want to be associated with the anger and the beligerent behavior. Lindy
Hi Innerglow, I understand what you're saying but I still can't help but see the other side of this issue. I'm sure you're familiar with the term "enabling" and I think that sometimes it's a true kindness to make the extra effort involved to help someone move forward. Granted, the status quo is a much easier path, but it doesn't help the person needing assistance. Now, whether or not anyone on this board is the proper person to do that assisting is another issue. But that's when I go back to the whole "opening up oneself to advice, opinions, etc." when posting. We just have to expect responses from all kinds of people, like it or not. I think if all responses are given in a kind, thoughtful manner, no one will feel afraid to post. In fact, some might be even more encouraged because they know there are others out there who are really going to try and make a difference and not just rubber stamp the same response after twenty, thirty times or more of the same type of posts from an individual. It's the cold, critical answers that will cause problems and discourage people from posting.
I don't expect to change your mind about this, but I appreciate the way you handled this discussion between us and I think it's time for me to let it rest. I won't be making any more posts regarding this issue.
Agreed Jesse. Thanks.