Thank you all and what’s AP? | Arthritis Information

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Thank you all for joining my pitty party.  I was forced to get off the internet etc. cuz i was having a very very down time.  I'm dealing with it a bit better today, geting into the thought of "this may be all the help i get" so i am trying to work around it.

When talking about my Bacterial Vaginosis a couple people said to try AP, what's that?  I probably know, but can't think of what it is.

I also wanted to especially thank those who have had it hard too for responding.  I hate to see others bad, but i have to admit that it is kind of nice to know when you are not alone.

One person talked about using prednisone and paying for it today for doing well in the past.  That is what my husband and I think.  He said he will take care of me should things go wrong (and boy will he, he already has taken care of me happily).  But, to live my good years with motion, maybe prednisone higher doses might be what i need.

 

 

Ok, the rest of this is long, you don't have to read it if you don't want to.

I talked with a lady once who had taken it for 20 years and didn't have one ounce of bone problems and she didn't take suppliments either, just never got damaged.  So that kind of helps me keep a little thought that i may get lucky like her possibly.

I still haven't heard from the Humira people, they said they will contact me instantly when my rhummy signs the papers, but you all know how she is, so i am calling monday and yelling at them.  I pray this drug doesn't hurt me.

Also, still haven't heard from my gynacologist about getting drugs for my BV.  They "lost" my papsmear "and" my biopsy, so they didn't write me a prescription on thursday cuz they haven't found them yet and they said that no doctors worked on friday so i have to call monday.

I will not.... WILL NOT... have another biopsy.  Those are soooooo very painful and they are always giving them too me cuz my uterus is always swollen.  But it comes out clear, drives me nuts.

But, anyway, I am going to be positive and work with what i have.  Pred does work for me, doesn't hurt me, doesn't swell me up, but does give me a lip hair or two lol.  So if humira doesn't work, i will be living on that.

I also found that a lot of the "odd" swelling i have in the legs etc. has gone down with the use of the nature's way probiotics.  So that is nice.

Thanks again everyone, god bless you and i hope the medications work wonders for you.

See!  I keep telling everybody - AP or not - to get on probiotics!

AP (antibiotic protocol) is the use of antibiotics to treat RA.  Most of the world is into the 'attacking self' description of autoimmune diseases.  New research is pointing to intracellular infections which hide in your white blood cells - the very cells designed to protect you from infection.  They very well cant protect you if they've been taken over by the enemy, can they.  :-)

Lurk on www.roadback.org to learn more about it - seriously, everything they said sounded like Greek to me when I first started there.  Also, get the book The New Arthritis Breakthrough by Henry Scammell.  It's available on Amazon.com and explains the politics and history of AP in a quick easy to read format.  Very inspiring.

BV is a bacterial infection and constant re-infections tell you something is going on with that.  It's good that the tests aren't showing anything more serious - but I'm under the impression that you can't be on a biologic with an existing infection.  (Anybody correct me if I'm wrong, please jump in).  Which means you have to deal with the BV before you get on Humira.  I know you don't want another biopsy - but - you need to be sure you are OK.

With AP it is common to get worse before you get better.  A constant dose of antibiotics will take care of the BV, probably for good.

Hugs,

Pip

Hi Pip,

I went to see my rheumatologist last week because I really would like to try AP.  Well, among other things, she told me it would turn my skin green.  Is that true?  I've never heard of such a thing.

Thanks so much
[QUOTE=Pip!]See!  I keep telling everybody - AP or not - to get on probiotics![/quote]

I second Pips! telling everybody! TAKE probiotics regardless your therapy.

Knowing full-well that I will be greeting with ugh, ewwws, you-must-be-kiddings, and other assorted dismissal, allow me to say, before the booing and hissing begins, that a clove of garlic, peeled and scored, inserted into the vagina twice a day for five days will, at least in my experience, provide not only relief from the agony of vaginitis, regardless its cause, but will provide the basis for healing...

OK, let the booing and hissing begin. Please do not through eggs or vegetable, instead use them to create a tasty soup!

[QUOTE=kimm]Hi Pip,

I went to see my rheumatologist last week because I really would like to try AP.  Well, among other things, she told me it would turn my skin green.  Is that true?  I've never heard of such a thing.

Thanks so much
[/QUOTE]

HOW DO THESE DOCTORS SLEEP AT NIGHT??????  I think that there is a rare side of skin discoloration, so it isn't a lie, but ask your dr. why dermatologists use THE EXACT SAME MEDS in the EXACT SAME DOSES for TEENAGERS everyday for decades????  How many of your pimply high school classmates turned blue or green????  I suspect NONE.  How many took mino, tetracycline, erthromycin????  I suspect A LOT (I took them all).  Never never never did my derm say I would change color or get lupus. 

Happ - garlic is an antibacterial.  I'd think about what you said, but I still can't get past the yogurt for yeast infections.  LOL

Kimm -  My first thought was 'No, it's blue" doesn't your doctor know that.  LOL  Green would make you a vulcan!

Seriously, Suzanne it correct.  I've found that MD's do what they can by twisting the side effects of Mino to make is seem like it's really dangerous when it has the most minimum side effect profile out there compared to most RA meds.  If you want to read the true side effects - go to http://www.amgen.com/ and read the side effects of Minocin and Enbrel yourself.  (Not dissing Enbrel people! - I'm trying to point something out). 

Most people don't go to the Pharma websites because they don't trust Pharma.  So, they go to other sites like Web MD and read about it there.  But what they don't realize is that those sites are sponsored - meaning Pharma pays to put the info into Web MD.  Now go there and look at the differences.  Tell me which is the 'true' side effect profile.  The one Pharma pays for...or the one on their own website that, in theory, could get them in a lot of trouble with the FDA if it were false? 

That being said - I'd sure as heck take a little blue twinge to my skin over the pain I felt on diagnosis. 

Your milage may vary.

Pip

Edited to say - I've been on Mino for over 15 months and no blue yet!

Pip!39418.5086226852Suzanne,
Thank you for that information!  I'm so glad to hear your feelings about those antibiotics.  I swear to you, if I didn't know better, I would think my rheumy is getting a commission from the drugs she tries to put me on.  I've refused SO MANY because I know better.  I gave into Enbrel because I got so bad this time last year that my husband had to dress me.  Now, I feel FANTASTIC and I only take the enbrel every other week against her advice.  I stopped the methotrexate, sulfasalazine, plaquenil, and all the other stuff and I would really like to try the antibiotic therapy but she refuses.  I DON"T UNDERSTAND WHY I CAN'T JUST TRY IT!!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this information!

You just made my day!

Geez, I just can't shut up this morning!

About the Lupus - there is a thing known as 'drug induced Lupus'.  Interestingly, they started reporting this phenomena about a year after the MIRA trials came out - when this had not been reported for decades before when the tetracyclines had been used for acne.

I, personally, do not believe in MIL as I think it's just a herx and you're killing something off.  I think if you lower the dose and work your way thru it, you will be fine.  I AM NOT A DOCTOR - this is just what I think from all my research and why, if I would have developed MIL I would have continued on Mino.  I think I will probably develop Minocin-induced-pneumonitis as I'm a medical side effect magnet and my lungs are the most compromised - and why I intend to stay on my Mino anyway. 

But what gets my panties in a bunch is that the way you handle MIL is stop the drug (the symptoms go away).  Then, you can switch to Doxycycline.  But the MD's don't mention that part.

Pip the panty-knotted!

Your rheumy IS getting kickbacks from Pharma. 

Pip

Hi Pip,
Again, thanks so much for this information.  Read the message I sent to Suzanne.  I am really ticked off that my doc REFUSES to let me try the Min.  My husband and I sat face to face with her and she had a million reasons why it wouldn't be a good thing for me to take it.  Not that it wouldn't work, just that it wouldn't be good for me for one ridiculous reason or another.  I'm seeing her again next month and I plan on talking to her again about it.  I'm going to do alot of research first and go in with questions.  I would love to stop the enbrel altogether but I don't want to do it until I have something better or at least just as effective.  I had to beg my doc to let me take my enbrel every other week.  She then told me I was in remission.  She said that I will have some pain but my blood work shows remission.  I've had the same bloodwork for a year now and she never mentioned remission.  So much I don't understand.

Thank goodness I can talk to people like you about this.

Thanks so much!

Sorry, was typing when you were.

On the Roadback is a list of studies.  They only use a summary of the studies but if you Google keywords like "Israeli study" and maybe the author you'll find the Pub Med 'real' study.  That's a place to start.

Also, on Amazon.com you can order the book The New Arthritis Breakthrough by Henry Scammell.  It is an easy, quick read and shows the politics and history of AP along with the science behind it.  It's the best darn book you will ever read.

They count remission differently than APer's do.  In AP, you are inremission when your labs return to 'normal'.  On the biologics they count 'improvement'.

Sorry if I got all twisty!

Pip

Thanks so much Pip!  I'll do that! [QUOTE=kimm]H...my doc REFUSES to let me try the Min.  My husband and I sat face to face with her and she had a million reasons why it wouldn't be a good thing for me to take it. [/QUOTE]
Sounds as if your physician thinks you are her employee, hired to do a job for her, rather than that you have employed her to attend to your needs and desires.

I admit that it makes me angry and defensive when I hear that a physician refuses... time to get another physician!

As Pip! has indicated, get yourself educated and find a doctor who will work with you rather than against you.

Con brio! Happ


Kim - you just gotta be kidding "green"???????????  I personally am amazed at what some doctors say!!!!  When I first was diagnosed with RA I asked about AP and that rheumy told me I wasn't a good candidate for it  because my RA came on so sudden and was so aggressive so I never gave it another thought after some of the "normal" meds started damaging my body I was back to square one only this time with a different rheumy and he asked me try AP - he isn't a pro at it so we are learning together and it is working for me big time - I just hit the year mark at end of October.  I can't wait to tell him about the green stuff!!!

BTW - your doc works for you and if you want to try AP be sure and remind him/her of that.  I figure without us and our illness doctors won't make money and then theywon't feel so full of them selves - so I have no problem demanding they discuss my treatment with me and make darn sure my treatment plan is one we both agree with.  Green???

When i take antibiotics now i get horribly sick.  I get the chills, stomach kills me, fever and sweats.  Unless it is a z-pac, not sure why they are different, but that one doesn't hurt me.

Bubba -

Zith works in a different fashion.  It is STILL killing off gut flora tho.  I now wonder if the 3 Z-pacs I had from a bout with pneumonia contributed to this RA.  I sure as heck didn't know to take probiotics then.  And since I now believe all this stuff 'starts in the gut...'

Anyway, those chills, stomach aches, fever, sweats are really common Jarisch-Herxheimer reactions.  To APer's - it means the antibiotics are working exactly the way they should be. 

APer's are nutty about probiotics - we take way more than the recommended daily dose because we are constantly killing off the good flora too.  When I was an idiot and forgot my probiotics for 6 weeks during the move, I had a return of aches and pains in my hands and feet.  Taking probiotics are probably THE most important part of AP (outside of the Mino).  :-)

Here are some links to info on a 'herx'.

http://www.roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.displ ay/display_id/91.html

http://www.roadback.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=education.displ ay&display_id=124

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction

If any of the links don't work - look for an extra space, delete, and try again!

Hugs,

Pip

Edited to say - 2many - you had a doctor suggest it?!?!?!  I know I've read here people who did not have the same problems I did getting it but...yeah!   Also, congrats on the 1 year anniversary!

Pip!39418.688125You are all so wonderful, not because you are as shocked as I am, but that you are so responsive to my concerns about getting good care from my rheumatologist.  I've been seeing her for almost 3 years and we've gone round and round about alot of things.  I remain steadfast in my attempt to understand what's happening to me and to be educated about RA, Fibro, and Sjogren's so that I'm not jerked around by anyone.  But, I have met my match with my doctor.  They say nurses are the worst patients and perhaps I am, however, I know what is good for me and what isn't.  I lost so much of my vision due to plaquenil and she didn't believe it until she got a note from my ophthalmologist.  My eyes and skin turned yellow from sulfasalazine and the stomach distress was not good.  Methotrexate nearly gave me an ulcer and just this past Friday I had an EGD (gastroscopy) due to scar tissue building up in my esophagus.  I had to have my esophagus dilated in order to swallow a normal mouthful of food and just sips of water more recently.  THAT WAS NOT PLEASANT!  So, when I say I know what's not good for me, it's not me being difficult, it's what I know is hurting me worse than the RA, etc.

I'm now reading more and more things about how the drug companies don't really know the long term effects of Enbrel and as you can imagine, I'm concerned.  I had to TELL her I was cutting back from everyweek injections to every other week injections.  She didn't like that very much.

I do think it's about time for me to see someone else to at least talk about the Min.  I will do so as soon as I can get an appt.  I'll probably have to go back to Cleveland Clinic as there are few RA docs around here that I haven't seen that I trust.

Thanks again so much everyone for the information.  I really do appreciate it.

Kim,

 

I have used Enbrel almost since it came out.  I have had no side effects whatsoever.  I recently ran the Philadelphia marathon.  It wasn't as fast as I used to run before RA but I finished.  Enbrel gave me my old life back and I am very grateful for that.

 

Sarah

 

 

Hi Sarah,

I'm so happy to hear you say that Sarah!  I was running 6 miles a day for 25 years until one day I got up and could barely walk.  I miss it so much!  Congratulations on finishing the marathon!  That really makes me so happy for you!  Running is such a great stress reliever, weight controller and used to make me feel so good physically and mentally after I finished pushing my body. 

It's great to hear someone else say, "Enbrel gave me my old life back".  I've said the same exact thing so many times.  It's just recently I'm reading that no one knows the long term effects of this drug nor can anyone say just how long I can stay on it.  Since having my esophagus situation fixed, I have pretty much cleared up all the problems caused by the drugs I started on first when diagnosed.  So far, I've had intermittent sinus infections from the Enbrel which are bothersome but certainly haven't slowed me down. 

Do you have bad days at all?  Do you ever feel tired and dizzy?  Any RA problems at all that you still feel occasionally?  Please let me know.  Thank you so much for responding after reading my email.  I appreciate it.
KIMM

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