Okay,
Let me clear this thing up about LEVLarry and opiods. As many of you probably know, I used to be a big fan and forum pusher for opioids. It was my belief that they were a good drug with few side effects. Also there has been mention many times by some concerning me cold filtering the acetametephyn out from the opioid tablets.
First let me address the use and safety of opioids. They are not safe. The side effects can be life quality disabling. It is my opinion that it is safer to raise your prednisone rather than taking opioids. One physical effect is chronic constipation and constipation can be very serious with very serious side effects itself. Opioids are quickly leveled out in the human body by the mind. Quickly the mind needs an additional tablet and an additional tablet. Opioids cause depression. Opioids cause high and so every thing below is low or depression. Slowing down the opioid dose or stopping the dose can quickly bring on anxiety attacks. These life changing side effects may last a life time. One may have to start taking zanax or lorazepam or other anti-anxiety or anti-depression drug till maybe forever. The human mind will actually mimick the pain that a patient was taking the opioid for just to continue to to receive the opioid. It is nasty drug, but I am a firm believer that a person can do whatever they want to their body and mind. The human body gets used to pain. There are so many good ra drugs that most ra patients should not need opioids but by all means, if you feel like you need them or just want them, knock yourself out. This post is just for those that have a concern for their own mental health and believe that they can live with-out them until they absolutely have to use them. I firmly believe that opioids do have a welcome place in medical well being.
When I was doing opioids, my pills were mixed with anywhere from 375-500 mgs of acetametephyn in each tablet. If I took 8-16 tablets a day, I was running 3,000-8,000mgs of acetametephyn thru my liver, and that's deadly. I'm pretty sure that most opioid heads die from liver death than from opioid poisoning. So anyway, I started coldfiltering the acetametephyn out of the tablet. Eventually I was prescribed oxycodone hcl, pure high, minus any additive. I was kind of addicted. Take a bunch of pills and scratch my face off. When I would take my dose and didn't get the itchies, it was time to go up another tablet and soon, no itchies and up another tablet, and bla bla bla and I'll spare us all the gorey details of self detoxing, just trust me when I say, not fun, but hey, you can do anything you want with your mind and body with my blessings. I hope this has cleared the levlarry opinion of opioids.
LEV
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience; on the other hand, I am watching a family member die a painful death from terminal cancer and she refuses to take pain meds. She doesn't want to become addicted. While that is her right, it is hard to watch her wither away on the couch, in extreme pain, while the rest of her life slips away.Jas,
You read it too fast or just skipped over it, I said that:
"..........I firmly believe that opioids do have a welcome place in medical well being."
I was talking specifically to that cancer use. There are some new drugs for pain on the horizon.
LEV
I didn't skip over it. The fear mongering in the popular media has scared this poor woman so bad that she won't take opiates.My Aunt was the same way, stomach cancer, 5 months later she was gone but she was old school, no drugs, she knew she was dying just didn't want to get hooked, go figure.
LEV
I have a dumb question what is an opiod?Jasmine. Please assure your family member that opiods are not addictinglev, I appreciate your sharing your opinion and experiences, as well as your concern for people's health. I can think of a couple of other reasons that opioids should be avoided, and yet with all the drawbacks, I still find that's the best option for me right now. It seems that your experience has been quite different than mine, but there is really just one statement I would like to take issue with....
[QUOTE=levlarry]There are so many good ra drugs that most ra patients should not need opioids [/QUOTE]
Yes, there are many good RA drugs and treatments and more coming out all the time, however, that doesn't mean that a particular patient will respond well to any or all of those drugs. Some people here have had allergic reactions to all that's available. Others like me are slowly (very slowly) making their way through each one trying to find one that will work. Spending years in debilitating pain is not a good option. And there is no guarantee that any of these RA meds will help.
I don't like taking opioids and I only take the strength that I require given my current level of pain. However, they have been an important part of my treatment that has allowed me to continue functioning.
morphine, codeine, thebaine, and Papaverine.Okay well I have an allergy to codiene and have wondered what I would do for pain when and if it gets where the darvocett doesn't touch it anymore. Not sure if I would be able to take any of those. [QUOTE=lorster]Jasmine. Please assure your family member that opiods are not addictingIG,
I said most patients with RA, I know that some have not responded well to any and believe me when I say, I know how painful RA can be and codeine was a very welcome release, I am not talking down on the opioids, just doing what the government made them do, use a stronger warning against abuse and quick addiction.
IG, new ra drugs are coming soon that are totally different from the biologics and hopefully one will work for you. It took almost two years to get mine under control, I'm not sure how long you have been searching for relief, but certainly wish you a soon relief.
LEV
I really have not ever gotten addicted to pain pills. i never take one unless i am in so much pain. I guess since 10-05-07 I have taken 40 vicoden and that is a record for me. I agree with the pred raise verses the pain pills. This has been my longest flare. And with the bone infection and the teeth problems on top of it i have broke a record with the pain pills. Still i guess that equals about 20 a month I have been taking. I am prescibed two a day but i do not even take one a day. On a bad day i guess i take have been known to take two a couple of times. But it was three years scince i even took any and i had fibromyalgia attacks several times over the three year period. I would sometimes take some cough medicine with codien in it for my fibro pain and the doctor knew about and prescibed it for me. Two bottles would last me a year. I had muscle relaxer also. Honestly if not for the pred i would not be taking pain pills. My fatigue is why i wasn't taking them to be honest. I like to be awake and alert it is important to me. So even when i am in terrible pain I usually wait till i have opportunity to sleep if i am going to take them. LOL People have accused me of smoking pot as i look pretty buzzed and happy if i take 7.5 mg of pred and a vicoden. I get glassy eyes with tiny pupils. Oh well I guess i do not care what people think about me but they are wrong.NV-most people who are allergic to codeine can take hydrocodone which is a synthetic version and is found in generic form combined with acetominophen and in the same formulation in the brand name drugs Vicodin and Lortab. Darvocet has the ingredient propoxyphene combined with acetominophen. So, yes, there are other alternatives if you are allergic to codeine...plus there are other slightly less common or stronger drugs such as those containing morphine or demerol. Hope this helps.Lev, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I am happy you shared it and that you seem to be better now. I hope the best for you and that you continue to recover from the ordeal.
I am going to up my pred. I am having fibro pain and joint pain and have been trying to keep the pain at bay with pain meds. I guess upping the pred to 20mg for a while will be what I need. I am just tired of hurting and the only way is pain meds at this point, but I hate taking pain meds. I do not get my first pain med for the day until after hubby comes home from work, around 4pm. So... I just sit around in pain for 8 hours and by the time hubby gets home, I am snappy and just aggravated, because my pain bothered me to that point.
There are a lot more drugs now for RA and I am so glad for it. It took a year for me to work up to a biologic since most RD start people on one dmard and then work their way up.
I am sorry, Mary. I hope you can get off the pred soon.
Me too! I am very fond of breathing though
The drugs made today have so many side effects, it is like rolling the dice whenever we take something.
I had a long talk this morning with my doctor about all the drugs out there for RA and he basicly told me to stay on prednisone since i go 10mg or less and am doing fine.
We talked about biologics, methotrexate etc. and how they can cause problems that cannot be repaired unlike how prednisone causes bone problems where there are good drugs to help fix it.
He also said it is a choice. Some have side effects, some do not. I know i can't take methotrexate because side effects hit me hard, i can't take others dueto the same reason. I can't take ibuprofen due to my asthma and bronchitis attacks.
So a choice for each person has to be made and I do hope that no matter what anyone chooses, that they keep on visiting their doctors for yearly tests to make sure they are doing ok.
I may just stay on prednisone due to how it works and others make me so horribly sick and now with biologics showing possible cancers, liver and kidney failures etc. I seem to be side effect girl so pred might be my safe thing.
It's all a choice we all need to make and the outcome is determined on how our bodies handle things. Some do well on one while others do well on others.
I wish you well and that you all find the right meds.
Great post Bubbagump. How very true! I took a high dose (60 mg) of pred for a while and tapered off. After that the MTX and then enbrel set me right. But I have to say that during the 4 months before I was dx'd, before the MTX and Enbrel, if I had not had the pain meds, I don't think I could have handled the pain. I could hardly handle it with the pain meds. They were a Godsend for me.Hey larry,
My experience has been quite different than yours. I take oxycodone, no acetaminophen. I am prescribed up to 6 per day of 15mgs. I have been taking them for over a year and I sometimes have to take 6 and other times have to take 3 or 4. But during that time I have never once felt the need to take more than I am prescribed. My RD tells me to let him know if they are not working or if I need something like oxycontin that is time released. But so far I haven't and while I suppose I might have some trouble if I tried to suddenly quit taking them, I don't feel high. They take the edge off just enough to enable me to continue to work part-time. I am one of the unlucky folks who end up being allergic to the biologics. If it wasn't for the pain pills I would have no life at all.
I am sorry about the biologicals, Crispy. I wished the Imuran worked out for you. It done a good job for me in the swelling department.
I hope you find something soon to help you.
I don't really think it to be necessary to further explain that this is my opinion made up from experience and medical fact. I am in no way trying to talk anyone out of taking opioids or any other thing that they might want to take. I do not want to scare anyone into not taking pain meds and I don't believe that there is anyone that has read this thread so inclined. Old people such as my aunt and Jas' relative have made up thier minds already. Keep in mind that every person has a differing degree of addiction, whether it be alcohol or drugs, some have that addictive gene and some don't. If you have that addictive gene, it is easy to become addicted to almost anything. If you don't need the pain meds my strong advice is still, don't take them. When I was taking them there is no way I would have told you or me that I was becoming addicted, it's a sneaky-snake vine and it does feel good in a weird way. Even scratching off skin felt good in a weird way, and i still have chest scars.
Most important is the fact that the cure or a good medicine to relieve us all is just around the corner, right 6t5? I figure 2-3 years max. All we have to do is keep safe and make it to then with or with-out the opioids or other pain meds. We certainly have to take the meds that slows and stops the erosion and other non-reversing damage to our joints, so like mom always said, don't forget to take your medicine. Most of our meds are pretty safe. You never know, maybe George Soros or Bill Gates will come down with RA and we would have a cure real fast, right?
LEV
[QUOTE=levlarry]Anyways,
I am in no way trying to talk anyone out of taking opioids or any other
thing that they might want to take.
LEV
[/QUOTE]Ok how are kind of shoe getting brought into all of this? *looks suspicious*
Dang Lori, you're just itchin' for it tonight aren't ya?????
Go to your room!!!!
I am playing I am playing.
Nope Lorster,
I don't care what it is, this is america, land of the free. Everyone should be free to use, injest, inject, smoke, snort anything they wish to do. I've made the very same statement many times before. At the same time I also stated that I will not accept an excuse like "....hey man, i was "blanked" up on drugs" for doing or saying wrong. If a person on drugs breaks into my place or is a threat to me or mine, the same jacketed hollow point is going to take off the back of their head as it exits, got it? It's that simple. I don't advocate those drugs. I know that someone even said that we should give marijauna to our kids. Marijauna causes paranoia and a false sense of granduer and inteligence. I have been around hard core druggies and didn't mind being around them when they were high. They weren't high, they were level, they were straight when they had enough drug. Without the drug, they are scarey, keep your hand on your wallet and your gun.
Let me say this Lorster and all. I think that we should spend more money on drug addiction help and less on prisons. We do no-one any favors by putting non criminal drug addicts in prison. Betty Ford was an opioid freak and had a hospital named after her. The young black woman with two kids and .00 of crack goes to jail and has her kids taken from her, go figure. The justice system is just a huge, huge business.
Nope Lorster, do what ever you want, fine with me, but if you are a criminal, you are not allowed to use the drug excuse for behavior, it's that simple, simple isn't it?
LEV
I think hell just froze over.
Lev said something I agree with.
JOKE, LIGHTEN UP!!!
Be glad you're not dating a polygraph examiner. So many good things I wish for you Milly.
LEV
Oh that would be interesting. I could never date a polygraph examiner. They like yes or no answers and i give explainations. I am to complicated for yes or no answers.LEV
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