Hmm - I’ve been thinking | Arthritis Information

 

SCARY!! - I've been thinking!  Finally, have the time to think after a  wonderful Christmas filled with family, friends, etc.

Anyway, I've often wondered why mtx, a drug used for treating cancer, has been borrowed for the treatment of RA, hasn't been administered in the same dosages as is used for cancer patients?

Since mtx is administered in large dosages to kill cancer cells why wouldn't it be effective for destroying the very factors that destroy the bodies of patients with RA? 

The medical establishment claims not to know what the definite causes of RA are and focus primarily on finding methods to deal with the pain and the progression of RA. 
Over time most RA patients, not on AP therapy or Marshall Protocol, find they "graduate" to stronger and stronger drugs. If these anti-rheumatic drugs were truly the answer/effective there would be no need to "graduate" to stronger and stronger drugs.

Again why wouldn't it be feasible to use the cancer killing drugs in large doses to treat RA?

Yeah, I know this seems a bit off-the-wall but as I said, "I've been thinking."

I never thought about that. 

Thinking, thinking...

Pip

Edited to ask - Does anybody know the difference in the dosages between us and cancer patients?

Pip!39458.4090509259

As one who did it (high doses of chemo with stem cell) I would say pass unless you just don't have anymore options.  Plus it is a coin toss.  Some like me do well and others do not.

With chemo you are nothing less than in an nuclear explosion with damage to alot of things.  Chemo will more than likely damage your adrenals (go straight to menopause and crapped out my thyroid). There are secondary cancers risks etc. etc.

Thank God, I survived and have been RA and Medicine FREE for two years but I would be hardpressed to ever do CHEMO again.

It took about a year to recover from chemo side effects and close to another year to get thyroid regulated.  Now that is something to think about.

Stem~ You are RA and medicine free?  Are you saying that the chemo caused your RA to go into remission, or did RA hit you after your chemo?  Congrats on it working for you by the way.  I didn't realize until now that you are a cancer survivor.Linnc, StemCell4Me was cured with stem cell therapy. Before the stem cells
were put it they had to totally kill off her immune system with chemo
therapy.She has a journal that tracks the whole process, but I don't have the
url on hand. She is one of the people who shows RA CAN be cured and she's
one of my heroes. I'm sure she will check back in and tell you more about it.Gimpy-a-gogo39458.4861574074

Linncn,

I had severe refractory RA (untreatable) and was looking at a bleak future when I pursued Stem Cell Transplanation.  It involved high doses of Chemo to totally wipe out my immune system and infusing my own stem cells back into my body. It is a known fact that when cancer people undergo chemo treatment that their RA disappears for a period of time. So the stem cell treatment did indeed cause my RA to go into remission.  I just wanted to point out that chemo only to treat RA would be a coin toss and does have risks and side effects. And stem cell transplantation has had success with 72 different diseases but does not work for everyone.

I NEVER had cancer but did have supercial skin cancer removed which was a side effect of the chemo I received with the stem cell treatment.

I hope that clarifies my statement prior. Thanks for the good wishes,

LuAnn

Wow LuAnn.  Is that a pretty radical treatment for RA? I never even knew people did that.  But then, I never knew their was untreatable RA.  I'm so happy that it all worked out and that you're doing so well now.

Did you post once about the skin cancer and make the comment that now you have to check the yes box on medical forms? About having cancer I mean?  I remember someone posted that once quite a while ago.

Thanks Gimpy,

Not a hero just did not want to be bedridden so it was kind of like closing your eyes and hoping for the best.  I did tell the Doctor that even if I just got two years out of it I would be happy.

Deep down inside I know I will make the FIVE year mark.  Just need to get some corrective surgeries on some of the damage that was done by the RA.  I do post now and then just to show there is always something that can cure RA whether it be AP, Stem Cell, diet changes etc. It just takes preserverance. Never give up!!!!!

LuAnn

 

Thanks for the ecouragement, LuAnn. I know you think you were just doing what you had to do but you are still a stem cell pioneer lighting a path for the rest of us, no matter how self-focussed your reasons were! I think that should be acknowledged.

Your "Never give up!!!!!" attitude is what makes you my hero too.  :-)

We have to push and push to get better.

Question everything! 

Hugs,

Pip

[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]... I think that should be acknowledged.[/QUOTE]

So do I and celebrated as well.

Reading LuAnn's account of her journey through chemo and stemcell therapy is inspirational on every level.

To quote Eleanor Roosevelt, "You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing which you think you cannot do."

To courage!
Watchingwolf, I have a friend who was diagnosed with lupus at the same time as her diagnosis of breast cancer.  She was on high doses of MTX for the cancer and has been free of the lupus for many years now.  She swears the MTX knocked it out.  My father had RA and was on mtx for years. He then developed cancer and was given massive doses of mtx via intravenous for the cancer. Yes it did fix the RA but lost his life to cancer. He even asked the drs could they do the same for me for RA only. The trouble is the effects of chemo-high doses are very severe and half the time the cure for cancer is worse than the disease, what it does to the body.  Needless to say that the doctors refused. Sounds like something they should try but the results aren't always as good.Pip,  I know I am asking alot of guestion's ,but I am really trying to get a handle on this. Looking for alternatives.  Is probiotics done with atibiotics?  If so do they have someting for people who are allergic?

Peanut,

I'm thinking that very few people are allergic to probiotics.  Unless there is an ingredient in them that they are alergic to.  I think many people mistake side effects (bloating, nausea, gas, etc.) as an allergy but it's your body getting fuel again so it can utilize the vitamins and minerals that we're taking in correctly.  Many people are so sensitive that they need to work up slowly.  I did - but a lot of that was 'emotional' - I was putting what in my body?  Anyway, as your body gets used to it, the side effects go away. 

Now, if there is a serious anaphalactic reaction - face swells up, airways close, can't breathe - that's an allergy.

In that case, possibly the kefir drink that GoGo posts about.  I'm going to look into that ASAP.  Even lactose intolerant people can take those, if I understand her correctly, if they don't use it until it's 24 hours or later.  I think she said it breaks down the lactose so it's safe for lactose intolerant people.

If it's the milk - don't do the yogurt.  Most of us need way too much and a cup of yogurt just isn't going to cut it.  At least for me - but maybe it's the antibiotics too.  :-) 

Ask questions away!  It's what we're here for!

Pip

P.S.  If I have anything wrong (GoGo???) somebody jump in and correct me, OK?

Pip, I've read in several places that many lactose intolrrant people can
drink kefir with no problems, because of how the probiotic bacteria of
kefir grains breaks down the lactose. I've also read that kefir has more
concentrated probiotic and a broader spectrum of probitoics. But those
were all on health sites and kefir sites so I don't know if there's good
science behind that.

The having to ferment for 24 hours thing is something I read in that diet
book sdbridges uses, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" and the book only talks
about yoghurt, so I don't know how long you need to ferment kefir. It's
usually fermented daily so probably 24 hours is about right.

You can also make kefir with soy or coconut milk, or even water! But you
still have to feed the grains by soaking them in milk.

I haven't graduated to making my own kefir, yet, and have just been
using the organic commercial stuff. It's good but I think I'll start making
my own soon because that commercial stuff is not cheap, and I don't
really know how authentic it is. Kefir is not hard to make, once you track
down the authentic grains. It's good, too. It's sort of yoghurty sour but
thin and with a slight bit of bubbly. My daily kefir and frozen raspberry
smoothie is a treat!

To avoid dairy, you can also make great probiotic vegetables by salt
pickling. Sauerkraut is a common one but you can pickle most vegetables.
Commercial sauerkraut and pickled vegetables are not probiotic because
they have been pasteurised (except for a few specialty health brands), so
you have to make your own. I purchased a device called the Perfect
Pickler which pickles the vegetables in 4 days (as opposed to 6 weeks). I
put the shredded cabbage or carrot sticks or whatever vegetable in with
water and some unprocessed celtic sea salt, put the lid on and if 4 days I
have probiotic pickles or sauerkraut.

I really like the idea of the perfect pickler.  I mentioned it to Santa, but the bum ignored me.  ;-)

My mom made sauerkraut.  She had these big ceramic bins that she put a huge clean garbage bag in with the shreded saurerkraut and vinegar and whatnot and let sit for 6 weeks.

One time she forgot.

The bag exploded.

We had sauerkraut everywhere.  On the floor, the walls; hanging from the ceiling.

Yep, that pickler sounds great to me.

Pip

Pip, the pickles are a good source of food probiotics but I still rely mainly on kefir and yoghurt because the pickles are salty so you can't eat a lot of them.

I also still take OTC probiotic suplements, along with the probiotic foods. If I have gut problems causing RA I would need a lot of probiotics, even if I wasn't also on antibiotics, is my reasoning. It seems to help. Quite a bit, actually.
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