NOw, my knee has started bothering me, my right elbow, my feet have gotten worse, and just last week my thumb started hurting while I was eating chili. (The bottom joint) These joints have never hurt before.
I didn't think to connect it to the shot. I actually never thought twice about it. Besides when the muscle in my arm hurt for a week afterwards!
This is all very discouraging.
I've been a bit fatigued, but I don't know if that's from all of this or I'm just depressed from all of this?
I'm so frustrated with all of this and don't know what's going on and I'm sooo sooo scared and I think this is all causing me to be very depressed.
So sorry you aren't feeling well. Have you gone to your regular doctor to do some tests?
Yes... my ASO titer has been high and my RF is 21, which I guess I don't really know what that means. They also did that one that tests for inflammation in my body and that is normal.
Two out of three of my daughters have gotten HPV shot. Neither of them have had any problems.
Aren't you and your daughters so lucky, Lynn. I mean, following orders and all.
Ladies, do NOT be depressed. Depression is a common symptom of this stuff. Who wouldn't be? The question is...how to get yourselves as healthy as possible to live the rest of your lives having some good times? OK.
And seriously think of filling out that FDA form. If they open a file and it turns out this could be a side effect or possibility...your filing that report may save other peoples daughters lives. If it turns out to be a coincidence...then so be it. But they aren't going to start looking at possibilities if we don't say something.
It's up to us to make sure we're not lab rats in some maze. I am not an experiment. Neither are you.
P.S. If others post on different boards, you might consider posting a question. Not to start a scare tactic...but to see if some newly diagnosed people have this in common.
I'm sorry, but I always get a kick out of people who like to tell me that they got the vaccine and they are fine. Yes, some people get in car accidents and are fine. But what about the people that aren't fine? Do they not stand any ground?
My doctor was once again rude to me today. She told me she saw no correlation. What!?? 8 days after the injection I experience joint pain. That Gardasil site says that if you experience joint paint to call your health care provider immediately. And my health care provider tells me she sees no correlation and that I should pop some advil!?? wow.... this is all just so ridiculous.
I am very happy for the people who have had injections and are fine. You dodged a bullet and I am glad you did. I would hate to see others suffer. But please don't rub it in my face. People that do experience side effects do matter also... and our story NEEDS to be told!
Aren't you and your daughters so lucky, Lynn. I mean, following orders and all.
And aren't you just rude.......but that's not really all that surprising is it.
Not rubbing anything in anyone's face, just sharing my daughter's experiences. All meds have side effects, some people experience them and some don't. Wht is it okay for you to share your experience and but it isn't okay for me to share my daughters?
Please file a report on Medwatch! Obviously, your health care provider is not going to.
I also got a kick out of the post you are referring to. It is very possible age (experience?) had something to with it, too. And we have also been told you have a 'window' in which to get this vaccine, or it is too late to matter. Doesn't really make sense to me. But that is why they are saying we need to decide sooner than later for our daughter. It is not presented to us as a vaccine for 'adults' so to speak.
My friend told me they tried to get her 48 year old mother to get the vaccine. She's married with two children and she's 48! Now why would she need that vaccine??
My chiropractor made a good point... "If pharmaceutical companies actually made vaccines and medicine that cured everything without any side effects, well then there would be no more problems to create vaccines and medicines for. Hence, the pharmaceutical companies go bankrupt and are no longer needed."
Maybe Jasmine Rain will be around today and get on this thread. She has posted info about this vaccine before.Oh really? That would be great! Any information on this vaccine would be so helpful!
Good News! My x-rays look good and the one lil spot on my knuckle is no big deal. It looks like it's been there for a long time. So yay!! That's at least a start.
I'm going to call another doctor at my gyno today and see if someone won't give me some information!
I am so sorry that the vaccine might be involved. I have a friend who had a complete hysterectomy, uterus and ovaries due to cervical cancer at age 26. I would love it; if that never happens to any one else. Sadly she didn't have a chance to have children, which she and her husband both wanted.I cannot speak for other countries, but here in the US, we all have rights and responsibilities. One of the most important rights as a patient, is the right to say NO to any treatment being offered. And NO means NO. The health care professional can go on and explain why it is important or not important, but in the end, the patient has the right to refuse. If you are a minor, this should have been explained to your parents and they should have the right to refuse the treatment. It is too late to go back, the vaccine has been given. I'm sorry this has happened and that doctor was in the wrong to go a head with the ordering of the vaccine when you had clearly stated that you did not want it. Personally, I hate vaccines and have never had the flu or pneumococcal vaccines which I get harassed about every year. It is your body, your temple, and you have every right to say what is going to be put into it. Remember that. Well I heard that Merck (manufacturer of Gardasil) is pushing this HPV vaccine so hard because they have to make up for the loss of millions from the Vioxx(?) lawsuits and recall. They give doctors huge incentives (gifts, trips - WHOLE SETS OF GOLF CLUBS) to push their drug. Well, I'm thinking they're pushing so hard because it's gonna end up being pulled from the market.
I have watched many women die of cervical cancer....some of the worst deaths I've ever seen. And one recently was a woman in her 30's with HPV. She developed it long before the vaccine and then chose to treat it with alternative medicine. Was very sad to watch. Many of these women end up bleeding to death (DIC) and it just makes me sick. But, with all that said, and knowing that we don't see nearly as many deaths from cervical cancer as we used to, it is still out there. I still do not support this vaccine. Seems to me that it kinda popped onto the market quickly and now it is being run as commercials constantly. I guess we know why it costs so much....those commercials are pricey. One of the best things we can do is to continue yearly screenings, and more often if at risk and take good care of ourselves and not have multiple sex partners. They need to spend more money on messages like that. And we need to be giving our daughters...and sons this information. It was interesting, I take my kids to a pediatric practice with both male and female doctors. My son (11) sees the male doctor and my daughter sees the female. After my son's checkup I was chatting with the dr. and asked him what he thought about the Gardasil vacccine. He said if he had a daughter he'd want her to have it. I already knew I wouldn't get it for her - I just wanted to hear what he had to say. Then during my daughters exam (she's 14) I asked her female physician what she thought about it and she said "If I had a daughter I'd wait. There's not enough data out there yet". Interesting. According to today's paper, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends three doses of HPV to females age 11-12 years.
A major factor in our decision to wait: The same list says the AAP recommends two doses of chickenpox. The daughter in question was also in the first batch of kids to receive the chickenpox vaccine. The daughter in question was also in the first batch to get chickenpox after receiving the vaccine. They now know you need a booster; it was not known then. Lesson learned - wait until they know!!!!
When my first son was born, the Rotashield vaccine was pulled off the market just before he was due to get it. This was yet another vaccine that we were assured was safe and effective... nevermind the fact that some babies died because it literally caused their intestines to fold up into one another.
Crunchy- I had the meningitis vaccine before I went to college and I didn't have any probems with it that I know of.
This whole disscusion is making me sick. I am so sorry I got the HPV vaccine. I don't know what I was thinking. I am so leary about drugs....I won't take certain RA meds because I am so afraid of medicine in general. I quit taking enbrel, I am currently not taking my sulfasalazine because I feel worse when I am on it. Every time I start taking it again a new joint hurts that never hurt before. I am up to 6 new joints hurting since I got the vacine and started the sulfa.
But I just went ahead with the HPV vaccine with out even thinking!!! Cah -
You can't beat yourself up for this. We're human beings that listen to our doctors and the FDA. They are supposed to be looking out for us.
But that doesn't change the fact that you need meds. You can't do this RA thing without them. The costs (to you) are waaaay too much. You need to research and make some hard decisions.
Pip
P.S. Does anybody know if she's on the sulfa thats an antibiotic or the sulfa thats NOT an antibiotic? I get them confused.
Pip,
There are two?
I asked the PA about minocin and she said she never heard of it! I was willing to try that, plaq or sulfa. The only one they would let me go on was the sulfa. The PA (yes the doc didn't even come in to see me that day) said the doctor told her that Plaq was no better than a placebo! (so basically he could have a 20 minute conversation with the PA and not me about the drugs I asked about) GRRRRRRRR
Sulfasalazine isn't an antibiotic. I've been on it for 6 months and am ready to stop. LindyHow come Lin?My RD told me Sulfasalazine is an antibiotic, and she's a doctor! It's some kind of sulpha drug mixed with antibiotics.
Cah, if Sulfasalazine is making your joints hurt more you're probably having a herxheimer reaction. You might do well on AP.
I had a Hep B vaccine which may have triggered my RA. It's just so hard to know.Gimpy you are right:
Description
Sulfasalazine (Azulfidine) is an anti-inflammatory medication that belongs to a class of drugs called sulfa drugs. The active ingredients in sulfasalazine consist of salicylate (the main ingredient in aspirin) combined with a sulfa antibiotic. Sulfasalazine is also known as a disease modifying antirheumatic drug (DMARD) because it not only decreases the pain and swelling of arthritis but also may prevent damage to joints and reduce the risk of long term disability.
I didn't know that. APer's do you think that would work the way AP drugs work? If so I would be very happy to stay on it.
I know there is a difference - and that comes from the ped rheum. He says it is not the same kind of antibiotic, even though it sounds like it would be in the description. I was all hot to try it for my daughter, after she did so well when he treated her for an 'unknown' infection with Zith, but he said it wouldn't be the same.
What else does sulfasalizine treat? Anything at all infectious?
The AP drug of choice is Minocin - unless you have high Lupus levels, then doxy. But, in my book, an antibiotic is an antibiotic. So, yes, it's why you're 'herxing'. Google 'Jarishe-Herxheimer reaction'. It's a temporary worsening of symptoms. Sometimes you're really bad off with herxes so it's hard to have faith it's working.
You might consider dumping the rheumy? Just a thought - go find somebody that will TALK with you.
Hugs,
Pip
P.S. GoGo - think about filing an FDA report, please. I've seen tons of posts about the HepB.
But Pip, I'm Canadian and the FDA is an American institute. Am I eligible for reporting? I only got the first 2 shots and never went for the 3rd. After I satred researching possible triggers for RA I wish I never got the first 2. Ieven resaearched it before I got it but evidently not deeply enough!
Gimpy-a-gogo2008-02-12 13:53:52If they sell the drug there - I'm thinking the FDA wants to know about it. And if they don't, post here and let us know.
You know, most APer's stop getting flu shots and vaccines and at first I thougt that was more crazy talk. Not anymore.
Pip
I was told it isn't a traditional antibiotic - whateve that means. I'm stopping because I've been taking it for 8 months with no significant change. The only positive change has been with my RA and that's due to starting Humira and according to labs, mri of hands I'm in clinical remission for RA. PA is now got it's panties in a bunch. Anyway, didn't I read somewhere that Palin. arth. can disappear and not return and that AP therapy works well for it. Pip, do you have Palin. arth.? I haven't done a search but I think I remember a post where you stated that you had Palin. arth. My brain fog has lifted but every once in awhile........it's back, so my memory may be fogged. LindyCanada has its own approval process so I would suggest making your complaints to themYep, I'm PRA and no, no studies saying it was going to work for me at all. At the time I was diagnosed, I was the only person in the world with my 'diagnosis' (so I thought). Later, the IPRS came on line but I didn't find them until after I started AP. It wasn't until after AP that I found a reference at all to AP helping one PRA peep - but I didn't see that until late last year.
So, when I started AP, I was scared to death because while I believed it was infection driven, I thought no other PRA people had tried it. Scared the bejesus out of me. Just like stepping off a cliff.
Where you read PRA appears and disappears is here. From me. It's part of the disease process in the beginning. But after a while it progresses to 'all the time'. And it can then progress on to 'RA'.
Since I started AP I found more PRA people and they've started AP and we have about an 80% success rate. But my sample size is small.
I hope to have more eventually.
Did I make sense?
Pip
P.S. When I hit remission, I fully expect people to say it's the nature of my disease instead of the Minocin. It's not. It's the Minocin. But I am hoping to use the nature of my disease to get my cure.
[QUOTE=Pip!]Well, I'm thinking they're pushing so hard because it's gonna end up being pulled from the market.
Jas - hope you see this.
This is an OpEd piece in the NYTimes that I think is poorly written. I think she's trying to say don't have 'herd mentality' but she's saying something I think I agree with - don't overwhelm your immune system. I've read this thing 4 times now and I still don't know if I'm interpreting it right. What interested me was the 'disproved hygeine hypothesis'.
Pip
Pushing HPV shots is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Should be only personal choice. Some parents have complained loudly. More pharma marketing.
Jan
I have had relations with one man and ended up with the bad strain of HPV. Of course I am monitored closely now. He had been careful but barrier protection does NOT always prevent the spread. He had never had symptoms. That is true of the strains that cause cancer.
Don't know I'm necessarily pro-vaccine, just FYI.
[QUOTE=KatieG]I have had relations with one man and ended up with the bad strain of HPV. Of course I am monitored closely now. He had been careful but barrier protection does NOT always prevent the spread. He had never had symptoms. That is true of the strains that cause cancer.
So far there is only a vaccine for women
[QUOTE=wanttobeRAfree]So far there is only a vaccine for women[/QUOTE]
They just haven't bothere to test/market it to guys because it won't be near as big of a seller
THere was a segment on the ABC New York news last night about this vaccine. Quoted a medical journal. It is on their website. It said it does not protect against ALL strains of cervical cancer. Side effects listed included death and Guillaume-Barr.
Did you report to the administrator of the shot that you were diagnosed with RA a week after 3rd shot?
Jan
I saw it, too. Looked like the story gave their medical contributor a big *gulp*. Poor Merck can't catch a break this news cycle - Vioxx seed trial and Gardasil unknowns.
I had just talked to our ped about Gardasil yesterday. He said it was smart to wait. I guess he knew this was coming.
From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121928503311259059.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us_business
I posted this before I think, but I heard from someone in the "medical community" that Merck is pushing this Gardasil to recoup their $$$Loss from the Vioxx lawsuits. Beware. I refused this for my daughter. This is so odd that this is being discussed today.
We were registering our daughter for school and they wanted us to fill out forms - and they had a section on TB and immunizations and if you are opting out because of your beliefs. Well, hubby asked me (he was doing that form) and I surprised the hell out of myself - I snarled at him - 'no more vaccines EVER'. So, he's loud whispering at me and I'm loud whispering right back and I apparently told him - 'you'd better be willing to take me to court because ain't no way she's EVER getting another one.
So much for logic - huh?
Which is surprising on a number of levels - hubby and I don't fight a lot and my claws rarely come out with him. And she's already had just about everything except that Gardisil so, it's not like I'm following herd mentality as some sort of protection for her. But apparently I had made up my mind and never realized it.
He filled out the form that he was OK with it but the Mother had objections. LOL
Pip
So your daughter will be reaping the benefits of all the other children in the community who do get the vaccinations.
Note the part about:
"And she's already had just about everything except that Gardisil so, it's not like I'm following herd mentality as some sort of protection for her."
But, if I had to do it all over again - I would make some serious adjustments. As I've stated here before - she has vitiligo and that came on around the time of some of her vacinations. I think all parents should be a lot more watchful with any kind of virus or cold and should delay until the child is completely healthy - even tho we told the doc she was recently sick, we were told she was 'better enough'. Also, if I had to do it all over again, I'd make sure they broke the shots up so it's less of a chance at an 'immune reaction'.
Pip
I don't know how old she is, or how many shots she has left to get during her childhood. The line about "she's already had almost everything except the gardasil" was a bit ambiguous - was that just for this year? What about the next round of vaccinations? Or is she almost an adult and will be on her own soon, and making her own decisions?
I've had friends who have suffered a lifetime from complications from polio. Horrible disease. And my stepbrother almost died of whooping cough when he was an infant. He had not yet received his immunizations, and somehow picked up the bug.
I still don't think the chickenpox vaccine should be mandatory; even the CDC says that one of the major reasons why it is required is so parents don't have to miss work. How long does the artificial immunity last?
She's 7 - so she's done.
And look at this - even tho they've just said it's not cost effective over 26, look at the new immunization schedule -
For those that don't want to wade thru the entire thing, here's Mercola's take on it -
The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, a division of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), has released the 2007-2008 recommended immunization schedules for adults in the US.
The schedule includes 11 different types of vaccines for adults, including:
- Tetanus, diphtheria, and acellular pertussis (Td/Tdap)
- Human papillomavirus (HPV)
- Measles, mumps, rubella (MMR)
- Influenza
- Herpes zoster (shingles)
Key changes in this year‘s recommendations include:
- Varicella (chickenpox) vaccination is recommended for all adults that have no apparent immunity to the virus
- Zoster (shingles) vaccination is advised for all adults 60 years of age and older, regardless of whether they have had a prior shingles episode
- HPV vaccine is recommended for women over the age of 26, who have not already completed the three-dose series
It is recommended that flu vaccination be administered to anyone with the following medical conditions:
- Chronic disorders of the cardiovascular or pulmonary systems, including asthma
- Chronic metabolic diseases, such as diabetes
- Renal or hepatic dysfunction
- Immunosuppression, including suppression caused by medications or HIV
- Pregnancy during flu season
Another view....
My child has an autoimmune disease - she will be getting NO MORE VACCINES.
And for others that share my concerns and have children -
Pip
My 20 year daughter asked me about the HPV when she went for her first gyn visit they brought it up. I told her I didn't think she needed it. It was too new of a drug but it's your body. Don't let any dr talk you into anything. Well, she called them back and told them she wasn't getting it. From January to July 2008, a total of 131 measles cases were reported to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the highest number seen during the same 7-month period since 1996.
Nearly half of the cases involved patients who were not vaccinated because of their parents' philosophical or religious beliefs.
Although no deaths occurred, at least fifteen patients, many of them young children, required hospitalization, researchers note in the CDC's publication, the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.
"Measles can be a severe, life-threatening illness," Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said in a statement. "These cases and outbreaks serve as a reminder that measles can and still does occur in the US."
Of the 131 cases, 112 involved individuals who were unvaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown. Of the 95 people who were eligible for vaccination, 65 went unvaccinated due to philosophical or religious beliefs.
Illinois had the most reported measles cases at 32, followed by New York with 27, and Washington with 19. Cases were also seen in Arizona, California, Wisconsin, Michigan, Hawaii, Arkansas, Washington DC, Georgia, Louisiana, Missouri, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Virginia.
Seventeen of the cases involved measles directly contracted in other countries, and an additional 99 cases were tied to imported measles.
The increase in measles cases seen this year "was not the result of a greater number of imported cases, but was the result of greater viral transmission after importation into the United States, leading to a greater number of importation-associated cases," the report concludes.
"These importation-associated cases have occurred largely among school-aged children who were eligible for vaccination but whose parents chose not to have them vaccinated."
SOURCE: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, August 22, 2008.
I think the way that they give the vaccines should be looked at. You have these little babies bodies being injected with sometimes three different vaccines at once. That's insane. Why can't they space out the vaccines? Give one, let some time pass, let them build up the immunity to that and then give the other, and do the same. I believe there is a real problem with giving these kids a double-barrelled shotgun of vaccines to build immunities to.
In the United States, measles caused 450 reported deaths and 4,000 cases of encephalitis annually before measles vaccine became available in the mid-1960s (1). Through a successful measles vaccination program, the United States eliminated endemic measles transmission (1). Sustaining elimination requires maintaining high MMR vaccine coverage rates, particularly among preschool (>90% 1-dose coverage) and school-aged children (>95% 2-dose coverage) (7). High coverage levels provide herd immunity, decreasing everyone's risk for measles exposure and affording protection to persons who cannot be vaccinated. However, herd immunity does not provide 100% protection, especially in communities with large numbers of unvaccinated persons. For the foreseeable future, measles importations into the United States will continue to occur because measles is still common in Europe and other regions of the world. Within the United States, the current national MMR vaccine coverage rate is adequate to prevent the sustained spread of measles. However, importations of measles likely will continue to cause outbreaks in communities that have sizeable clusters of unvaccinated persons.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/
I saw an article somewhere yesterday (maybe CNN.com or Time.com?) that they want to market the vaccine to women 25 to 45 now.Innerglow -
That was in the link and the info I posted on the last page - and considering it only covers 2 strains and you can already be exposed....looks like more marketing to me.
Honey -
Exactly what I was saying and Jas and Lynn cannot seem to understand. My problem with the vaccines isn't so much the vaccine - it's how its administered nowadays compared to when we were kids. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever see proof of the harm by the scientific community (too much to lose) but the fear is growing on the parents part.
Pip
I want to jump in that Pip is right about her daughter being 'done' - that is the exact word my ped used about my daughter earlier this week - once we get what the rheums are saying not to, this last batch, my daughter will be 'done'. Pip isn't what Amanda Peet calls a parasite.
Who is Amanda Peet and why is she calling people parasites?
Pip
She has invented herself as the anti-Jenny McCarthy. She's an actress with a baby she decided to get vaccinated (I guess in Hollywood that is ground-breaking these days?????) She made the 'parasite' comment in Cookie magazine.
Here is a big long blog with more on Gardasil, says what Honey posted about Merck needing another blockbuster after Vioxx:
http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/08/gardasil-market.html
I recently asked whether my son would be having shots at his 4 year well check. The ped said that would need 4-5 more before Kindergarten, and that we could spread them out 2 and 2 between 4 and 5, or all at once. The only factor he raised was the temperment of the child, what they would prefer.
But maybe they should just say, 2 and 2. But then, what if parents don't go to well checks and it's kindergarten time, and time for all 4-5 at once.
Just rambling.
I wonder if the 2 and 2 are required, or just what the practice recommends? My daughter got a hep A at her 5 yr. check up and will have to get the second part of that next time, but I don't think she
has to have that to attend school.
She has to get the MMR (and maybe chicken pox? don't know if that is mandated yet?) to attend school, or else we need a drs. note. The measles and mumps part are not the issues, it is the live rubella. Our ped has consistently said that since my daughter is not immune-suppressed, she can get it with no problems and they have had patients with arthritis get it with no problems. But two rheums have said not let to her get it.
We have a month to decide before they kick her out of school. The school said they have a few who opt out for religious reasons (which I guess means
all vaccines; our ped practice will not see completely unvaccinated kids, they do not want them in the waiting room with newborns), but have never had one for medical reasons.
They can order the MM without the R. That is what people who have concerns about the rubella vaccine are doing, like parents of autistic children, etc. So opting out of rubella doesn't effect the herd immunity of measles and mumps. We still don't know what we are going to do - MMR like the ped says, or MM like the rheums say.
Check and see if your state has an opt-out for philosophical reasons.
Katie - I'd do 1 at a time and ONLY if there was NO cold, sniffles, cut, infection etc. I mean, be as sure as you can that he's healthy. Like he just got over something about 2 weeks earlier so less chance of a brewing infection.
Pip
And please remember that if she doesn't get vaccinated for rubella, she risks having children with birth defects should she be exposed to it while pregnant. If she doesn't get the rubella vaccination now, please consider it at some time in the future. I have two friends who are deaf because Mom got rubella during pregnancy. On a more positive note, both have rewarding careers working with deaf children.
I really want her to be 'done'. After this, everything else is 'extra', so to speak. So I'm leaning toward what the ped says. (Now, is anyone surprised I'm
not leaning towards what the rheums say LOL???)
It would help me decide if knew exactly what the risk was in her getting a live vaccine. I'm only told they do not recommend it and if I ask more questions I'm told to get her immunity titers checked to see if she has immunity. The ped said that is basically BS, because of course she has titers because she had the first shots.
So you can see we are in the middle and I guess we will have to go with our gut on this one.
Edited to add: If she gets the shot, they should probably also sedate me for a week or so after, until it is clear nothing is going to happen.......
Suzanne2008-08-22 10:27:39We are going to do 2 and 2 to be safe, although we've never had a problem with vaccines that I am aware of. I am concerned for my own health about the live virus vaccines but that will be another issue.
The doctor said that some parents wanted all 4-5 shots at once to limit emotional trauma to their child. They will do that if asked, without complaint.
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