from the Arthritis Foundation re:mino | Arthritis Information
According to this, minocycline helps 60%.
I've read that before and wondered where they got those numbers. It also makes me dubious the way it definitively states the mechanism by which AP drugs work. I thought that was still unknown. (If minocycline works because of it's effects on the immune system rather than it's antimicrobial properties, how can they explain why ABXs like zithromax also work? I'm not saying Mino doesn't effect the immune system, just that they don't really know).
Still, it's a step forward that they even recognise minocycline as a DMARD, after all these decades of claiming the whole AP thing was bogus. I guess after a while people start to look really foolish denying it works when it's obviously working for 1000's of people.Dr. Richardson told me that he prescibes it to all of his minor RA patients and it is effective with 90% of the minor RA patients minocin. I think that this is an important part of the answer to the question. Dr. Richardson said that minocin is equal to plaquinal but he considers safer than plaquinal but plaquinal does not work for moderate or severe RA.
"Minocycline is effective in about 60 percent of people with RA who use it. However, it often is not prescribed because it does not have FDA labeling approval for this use, and it is a relatively weak DMARD compared with methotrexate, leflunomide (Arava) or the biologics (Enbrel, Humira, Kineret, Orencia, Remicade and Rituxan). "
That was part of the Pharm D's response to the question. Altho not medical doctors, I have great respect for Pharm Ds and their knowledge of pharmacology
LEV.
levlarry2008-02-12 13:27:55Yeah, but Lev, a few months ago you were denying mino even worked at all.My doc says 80% on his website.
Tell me you posted this on the main AF page!
Hugs,
Pip
Ah, Lev, you're coming along.
I was severe. I'm not in pain now. Tell me how it doesn't work for severe, again?
Pip
I've given it a lot of thought and I've decided if that's the way Lev really feels he probably shouldn't try AP. Sorry, Lev, I guess it's not for everyone.I can find "pros" and "cons" on any drug - all I have to do is "Google!"
I don't understand why this is such a "passionate" subject. There isn't one drug out there that will work 100% for everyone. If we find something that works, isn't that a "good" thing. I just don't understand why some people need to "prove" or "disprove" someone else's therapy.
When my RA first started, I was only on Plaquenil. It's also a "mild" drug, but at the time it was working fine. Should I have stopped that therapy just because it was a mild drug? I don't think so. If something works for me, I could care less what doctors are posting as the successful percentages. If it works for me, that's all I care about.
Can't we be happy for our AI friends when they find relief? Yes, we can!
Pip, question for ya. If I remember right, you believe that the minocyclin works because it's an antibiotic and RA is an infection. But this article that Suazanne posted says it does NOT work because it's an antibiotic, it works because it inhibits the enzymes that break down cartilege and because of it's effect of the immune system. What do you say about this?Linccn, I know I am not Pip but I addressed that very subject in my above post.
The truth is no one really knows the mechanism by which the drugs work. Minocycline is the MAIN abx used in AP, but not the only one and many APers don't even use minocycline, so how does the AF explain why other antibiotics also work?
In that article, the author is presenting theory as fact.How do you know it's theory and not fact, based on scientific study by scientists? Just curious. LindyWell, I've read most of the studies (if not all of them) on minocycline and arthritis, so unless some new information has emerged in the last few months I know that no one knows why it works. It could be immune altering, it could be microbe killing, it could be a combination, or it could be unknown.
If anyone has a study confirming this article's theory I'd LOVE to see it!I'm saying that I believe it's killing something and it kills more at pulsing doses than it does on the higher, more immunomodulatory Harvard Protocol' (daily) dose.
Some AP docs don't think it's killing anything. O'Dell said in the article on the wall of my AP docs wall that Minocin is a powerful cell regulator. So, it obviously has immunoregulatory capabilities. But other antibiotics without immunomodulatory effects (Zith) work too. So, something has to be killing something.
As I told the 'creepy breast exam doc' that I saw (rheumy) - (paraphrasing here) "Who cares how it works? Does it matter if it works by killing mycoplasma, or that it works by immunoregulation, or it works because I want it to work so bad. Tell me how it matters how it works?"
He looked away and never answered.
He's also the only MD I saw that said 'no' to prescribing the Minocin.
Pip
Thanks Kweenb -
We just want everybody to have options. Some people think that means we're dissing their meds. I don't diss their meds.
But, if you went to the Roadback - we tend to talk a little freer there. LOL
Pip
The inportant part of the link is:
and it is a relatively weak DMARD compared with methotrexate, leflunomide (Arava) or the biologics (Enbrel, Humira, Kineret, Orencia, Remicade and Rituxan). It isn’t the antibiotic properties, but the effects on the immune system and the ability to inhibit enzymes that break down cartilage and connective tissue that make minocycline (and other tetracycline drugs) so effective.
This subject always causes problems because people promote it--just like big pharma.
Since most research hospitals state the same fact "why it works", why should anyone believe a non doctor?
Your doctor knows if you are severe or mild, anyone can say what ever they want about themselves.
Birdy
LinB -
There does seem to be a lot of effort put into the 'not killing anything' theory. Just a whole lot of 'it can't be infection' which, if you think about it, if it WERE infection, you'd have a whole lot of people DEMANDING a cure. But, if it's 'body attacks self' thing then 'therapies' would be acceptable.
There is a 'rumor' in AP circles that some of the Pharma giants are trying to develop a Minocycline without antibiotic properties. When I heard that I went ??? All that money going to proving something isn't an infection??? But then I thought, well, it would be a new med, and it would be covered under patent. So, their would be a push to use it as a mild med.
But, as a rumor, I can't find any proof to that statement.
Pip
Anna/Birdy/BeeBee -
So glad you dropped by just as another inflamatory post by Lev starts. Isn't that an amazing coincidence?
That part you quoted about biologics was not in the Roadback poll - as LEV noted. You are so awful at actually reading this stuff, aren't you?
Yet you turn around and say 'damage is still occuring' even tho you just posted "the ability to inhibit enzymes that break down cartilage and connective tissue". Hmmm. Talk about cherry picking.
NOW ANSWER THIS QUESTION - who on the Roadback is getting paid? Pharma PAYS for favorable studies. The Roadback does not.
Hmmmm.
Pip
My Bad -
Lev did not note that and Anna actually read something before she transferred it.
In response -
Yes its weak - its a first line Dmard. That's why we like it. And if it works and works for 25+ years, more power to us. We get the added bonus of avoiding the biologic ladder for decades.
Pip
I never said AP didn't work that I can remember. I can't imagine saying that if I hadn't tried it. If I had tried it and it didn't work for me I still am not the type of person to broaden my response to a drug to include everyone. I'm not from the "show me state" Gimpy, but you are going to have to show me where I posted that AP doesn't work. Hopefully I won't be embarrassed. Just doesn't sound like me to post wild statements like that. I will probably have to make up some wild statement that I was doing alot of codone at the time, I'm just thinking ahead, clearing a path of wetting on myself exit.
As far as coming around, I think that I have always posted that some diagnosis of RA are microrganisms or even parasites which antibiots do kill (some). I think that the diagnoses that have differing blood results some showing RA and some not will eventually show that many people diagnosed with RA do not have RA but rather an organism(s) and or parasites and parasitic fecal matter. But I just don't know and that's the truth.
And Pip, who knows why you claim to be in remission not to say you aren't. I know that some on every type of cure including horse urine go into remission. All you can say is that you are the exception, nothing more and I guess you now say that you have super vision because of the minocin and probably next month you will be able to fly (just yanking your chains). You are just the exception, if you are. We can only read and know you through what you post. I know you still take tramadol so certainly not complete remission. I take no pain pills. That's just me. You have to take my word for it. I'm extremely handsome. I have full head of dark blond hair. I have a body that most body builders would give a fortune for. I own my own Island. Tomorrow I am taking Brittney Spears on a flight on my Lear jet to my island to try to get her away from the pops so she can relax. .................LEV
Lev, you forgot to mention you have a girlfriend named Cindy.I think the most important part is that it works for 60%. I don't care why or how or that it is weak. I actually think it is good that it is weak, but still works. Not into carpetbombing, so to speak.
I think the other most important part is that it is on AF and not RB. You do not only have to go to RB to learn that AP works. That gets lost in shuffle a lot, it seems.
Now, Lev, that was funny.
I'm NOT in remission. I'm just not in pain anymore. That screaming pain, 'please God, don't make me move my arm' pain. My RF is still sky high - 366 - higher than on diagnosis but a lot lower than my high of 706.
And you'd be happy for the vision thing - my husband is - I made him thread the needle on the sewing machine.
No, I can't fly. There are no reported cases of people being able to fly on Mino.
As for severe - I am not an exception. Every time you post that, other severe APers post that it worked for them. It took a hell of a lot longer...but it worked. Becky. Karin. I'm missing somebody.
What we need are more studies.
Pip
Edited for typo - fat fingered my RF number, making it higher than it was.
Pip!2008-02-12 14:32:13Hey Gimpy,
Are you searching for my post where I state that minocin doesn't work? I'm kinda worried. Nottttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt...................................LEV
I have another question. From what I've read a "herx" sounds like a flare. Pip, you told me that a lot of people give up AP too early because they go into an awful herx, think they're flaring that AP isn't working. So here's the Q: If a herx is like a flare, how do you know it isn't a flare? And, if their's inflammation involved in a herx, are you concerned about joint damage?[QUOTE=Linncn]Pip, question for ya. If I remember right, you believe that the minocyclin works because it's an antibiotic and RA is an infection. But this article that Suazanne posted says it does NOT work because it's an antibiotic, it works because it inhibits the enzymes that break down cartilege and because of it's effect of the immune system. What do you say about this?[/QUOTE]
I have an answer for this (but it still doesn't mean I care why it works, just that it does/can!). Tetracycline antibiotics don't kill bacteria, they kill the proteins that they eat. So maybe inhibiting the enzymes is really destroying the proteins; maybe the enzymes aren't breaking down the cartilage, the infection is, but when you inhibit the enzymes then everything slows down.
I guess I can always see things both ways, which is why I don't get too hung up on it. And for the record, I am terrible at science and dropped out of Human Anatomy and Physiology while we were still on 'Skin'.
I was scared in the beginning. It wasn't until I got here and realized that people still got damage even on the biologics. I thought once on them; no damage. So, yes, I was scared.
The problem is learning to differentiate a herx from a flare. They are, IMP, pretty much the same thing. Only with herxing you are 'bringing it on' in that you want to herx to lower the microbial load. You bring it on by taking a abx cap and then processing out the dead microbes.
When enough are gone, you notice it's more 'dose related' meaning I took this abx, it's in my system, it's now 22 hours later and I feel better. Then you take another cap and start the cycle again. Over and over until you hit remission.
Does that make sense?
Pip
Actually, it IS possible (although difficult) to scientifically differentiate a herx from a flare. From the Road Back website:
"Differentiating between a Herxheimer, an RA flare and an allergic reaction to the drug -
Laboratory tests can help differentiate between a worsening of disease (RA flare), a Herxheimer reaction to microbial toxins, and an allergic reaction to medication.
WBC will elevate in a Herxheimer and lower in a flare.
A Herxheimer will also exhibit a coincidental elevation of SED rate, gamma globulin and total globulin, and a fall in serum albumin and hematocrit. Patients who exhibit this flare reaction accompanied by anemia, depression of serum albumin, elevated total globulin and gamma globulin are probably reflecting a more intense reaction pattern to anti-L substances than in hematologically mild cases.
A marked increase in eosinophils (for instance about 30%) is an indication of an allergic reaction to the drug."
I was doing badly a few weeks ago and I supected it was a flare because it wasn't following the usual pattern of my herxes and my white blood cell count confirmed that.
Most people on AP eventually learn their own bodies and can tell a herx from a flare. A herx ususally follows a change medication. A modern approach to AP is to use conventional DMARDS while starting AP to prevent severe herxing.Linncn, I have seen people say they thought they were herxing, but were actually flaring. That is why you have to get xrays, be monitored just like any treatment. Now I have to research that.
She's right - I get X-rays and will until remission.I'm actually getting x-rays today, so I will know how I'm doing after I see my RD in a few weeks.So it sounds like herxing is the thing that sort of moves you to the "next level", each herx is another step closer to remission. Is that right? If yes, could a person stay on the low dose, manage their RA, avoid herxing and avoid joint damage or further joint damage (as the case may be)?Some people do that, saying it works as a DMARD. Some people want to dose so that they they herx, thinking it will cure or get them to remission faster. My daughter is on Zith MWF, but it stays in your system a long time, so I guess her dose is not pulsed. This is definitley something I will keep in mind. Thanks for the info, allYou can continue to have erosions and damage whether you are on AP or biologics, hence the importance of being monitored by doctors and having those x-rays....VERY IMPORTANT
LuAnn:)
Suzanne,
Your statement of fact is missing a part that would make it a credible statement. What part is it missing? According to this, minocycline helps 60%. Really it's missing alot of parts, but there is a major part missing. What is it?
Pip, if no one is getting paid from roadback, where is the money going? Certainly not to studies. Alot of money went to the marketing firm. That's a waste of money and makes the roadback look pretty fishy. Where can we find out about the money. Let me make one thing perfectly clear, there are aot of non profits that sure are awfully profitable. This will blow your mind, last year 209 billion dollars given to charities in the US. Say what? That's not all of it, that is just the amount that was reported..............................................LEV
levlarry2008-02-12 15:33:39Herxing lessens as you lower the microbial load. In the beginning it just felt the same. I didn't really flare...just in the usual PRA hell. But over time, it got less and less. So I'd notice more time off. Like my last dose was Friday night and was out of the body by Sat. afternoon, so Sundays would be GREAT. Then I noticed T and Th nights were good. Then only something minor after taking the capsule. Like a vague pain in the wrist or in the knee.
I chose the pulsing dose because I wanted to kill those buggers ASAP. That was before I actually understood it wasn't just my joints but my entire body that has the infection.
And I chose to herx and be done with it.
Any help?
Pip
Lev, I haven't given money to the Roadback. I don't know anybody who does. obviously, somebody must. But lets get real here. How much is one Harris Poll vs one Enbrel study. Who is supporting us? Pharma? Big business?
I'm going to post that Boston Globe article again. I swear!
Pip
OK -
It's no longer on the Boston Globe Website - but here it is on another one.
Makes you sick, doesn't it.
From the roadback website front page:
The Road Back Foundation, founded as a non-profit, charitable
organization in 1993, is a peer-to-peer endeavor run entirely by
volunteers -- professionals who are dedicated to providing information
and support to people interested in antibiotic protocols (AP). RBF does
not accept corporate contributions from industry. None of the people
involved in this effort receive a salary or other compensation. The
Foundation is supported solely by individuals who have personally
experienced or witnessed the life-changing results of antibiotic
treatment.
Lev, I've posted that for you before so I know you are already
aware of it. As usual, you believe what you want to believe and not
what the evidence supports. That is one of the many reasons I think
you're crazy, and probably why no one will "debate" thisa stuff with
you. Who wants to go around in endless circles with a crazy person? You
and anna/beebee/birdgirl should get together (after you get tired of
"cindy" of course), since you both share the same kind of "debating"
tactics (ie: denial of the facts) so you probably have a lot in common.
Gimpy-a-gogo2008-02-12 16:02:18And look, GoGo, he pushed and pushed and made me post that Globe article.
Shame on him!
Pip
Here, let me post it again for those that missed it.
I know Pip, he's a bad boy (and not in the good kind of way). I think
we should stop rewarding his bad behaviour with all this attention
we're giving him. If he doesn't want to try AP that's his right.
I think I'll post the link, too, with a couple of opening paragraphs:
document.write ( "E-mail to a friend" );
E-mail to a friend
E-mail to a friend
By Alice
Dembner
Dr. David Trentham is the
chairman of the Department of Rheumatology at Harvard. He has used the
antibiotic Minocin for successfully for many with rheumatoid arthritis and
scleroderma. He decided to study the drug in those ages 6 to 14 and asked
drug maker Wyeth for a donation of ,000 worth of the antibiotic. Wyeth,
which made billion last year in total sales of drugs and other products,
had acquired a small company that supported Trentham's previous studies of
minocycline in animals and in adults. But this time, the answer was an
unequivocal no.
''While scientifically
interesting, the concept and design is not consistent with our current
business objectives,'' wrote a company official in a letter that Trentham
said stunned him.
The rest of the article gets even more interesting!
Gimpy,
I'm still waiting for you to post my statement where I said minocin doesn't work. You don't have to post anything for me about rbf, i read it all and considered it. I don't need someone so onesided as you to research for me. Yous all debate it with me only you start talking smack when you can't back up what you say or are caught talking and posting smack. I'll ask you and Pip, what is wrong with this statement? According to this, minocycline helps 60% What's missing?
This is how it works Gimpy, the "gimpy truth"passes thru 3 stages: First, If gimpy says it's true, it's true. Second if you prove it to be not true, you are an idiot and thirdly if more than one person proves it to be untrue, you are all a bunch of morons and it's still true..........LEV
One more thing, if roadback can afford to pay one of the largest and fastest growing marketing firms in the world for a worthless study, they should be able to buy the minocin, hello, anybody home. Good for Wyeth, I like their product and their decision.
LEV
[QUOTE=levlarry]Suzanne,
Your statement of fact is missing a part that would make it a credible statement. What part is it missing? According to this, minocycline helps 60%. Really it's missing alot of parts, but there is a major part missing. What is it?
[/QUOTE]
I was paraphrasing this sentence: "Minocycline is effective in about 60 percent of people with RA who use it. " Maybe you don't think I am good at paraphrasing? That could be true, maybe I'm not. That is why I posted the link, so people could read for themselves. Sweet dreams.
Lev, you MORON!
How can you in good consciousness (or good conscience for that matter) say something as STUPID and IGNORANT as -
One more thing, if roadback can afford to pay one of the largest and fastest growing marketing firms in the world for a worthless study, they should be able to buy the minocin, hello, anybody home. Good for Wyeth, I like their product and their decision -
Will you still think its a good decision when your med of choice fails? Like Anna, I'm gonna love watching you eat crow when you get to AP.
Or maybe only people that do biologics deserve a pain free life?
Also - MORON - if you read the article, some of that Roadback money you were wondering about - it went to that HARVARD study.
Pip
Ok, I don't normally get in to these posts, because as a 'traditional med' person, I am not fully aware of everything regarding AP, but I am very interested in finding out more. What concerns me every time it is brought up on a board, it becomes a battle of who is right and who is wrong. And there is no right or wrong. RA is a disease that is different in everyone that has it...and the medications that will work for one, don't always work for another.
That being said however, this thread has brought up some very interesting points. Having over 15 years in the medical field before RA, and working with a lot of pharmacy reps, I am sorry, but I know that they work for their bottom line. Not all are bad, but decisions are made depending on profit to a large extent...they are a business after all. It doesn't make business sense to fund something that will not give you a return...that is just common sense. However, they all say they are doing research and looking for viable treatments and cures...well, this article that was shared by Pip is very interesting. IMO, it shows that they are looking out for the bottom line and not for the good of the people.
Lev, you said above "Good for Wyeth, I like their product and their decision." That statement bothers me a bit as well. I think it is great that Enbrel is working for you, but it has already been established that it does not work for everyone. Would you rather see money only being spent on 'one' drug, or on finding other options (especially for those people that Enbrel does not work for)? AP does work for people, and this study on AF shows that. It is a first line drug from what I understand, with a lot less side effects then Enbrel or many of the other meds we all take. And this study was trying to get approved to be tried as a treatment for children. As a mother of 3 children that come from a family with RA, I would much rather see options for kids that have less side effects then to limit them to taking these hard drugs from such a young age.
You say that you believe other drugs work for others, then why would you not support research in all areas? You support Wyeth's decision not to run this trial...well frankly, that disappoints me. We all suffer with this disease in varying degrees, and our medications vary as well, but instead of fighting back and forth, we all need to band together and support ALL research that affects those with RA, no matter what the drug is!!! If some wonder drug came out tomorrow and helped just one person, but did not help me, would I be upset? Yeah, maybe, but I would not attack any research on that product or the excitement from the one person it helped!
Instead of battling each other, we need to battle the disease...in whatever form may work for each of us! We should be supportive if one treatment works for someone and share in their excitment, not put their treatment option down or made inferior. There is no superior treatment for this disease...period. And until there is is, ALL research should be supported!!!
Damn, the voice of reason.
Sorry,
Pip
OMG Pippykins thats the first time I've read that article. I musta missed it the first time around.
"
While scientifically
interesting, the concept and design is not consistent with our current
business objectives"
SERIOUSLY?!?! Excuse me but, their current f**king BUSINESS OBJECTIVES?!?!
That's like "Oh, I'm sorry Ms. So-and-so but while doing heart surgery on your husband is scientifically interesting, it's just not within our current business objectives. Have a nice life!"
GAG!
Also:
"
He secured a ,000 grant from a small private
foundation, the Road Back Foundation, to fund lab fees for the six-month
study"
There's where RB's funds are going, AND GOOD FOR THEM!!
And another thing;
"Some pediatric rheumatologists
said, however, that methotrexate is not as risky and minocycline is not as
safe for children as Trentham suggests. A cousin of tetracycline, it
commonly is used to treat severe acne. But it can discolor teeth and skin,
irritate the stomach, and, in rare instances, it can cause liver or kidney
damage and has been associated with lupus."
and yet the previous paragraph says:
"If minocycline works
consistently in children, Trentham said, it would also be a safer
alternative to two other common treatments for JRA - steroids and
methotrexate. Steroids can stunt a child's growth, and methotrexate, often
used to treat cancer, can be toxic to the liver and it can harm the immune
system when given in higher doses than usually given in children."
O.o Is it just me, or do you not see a whole flip of a lot of difference here? EVERYTHING THAT YOU TAKE FOR THIS DISEASE IS GOING TO PASS THROUGH, AND POSSIBLY HARM YOUR LIVER. Duh?
Okay, I'll stop now.
And actually, I take that back. Steroids and MTX are still far worse.
Scratch off the liver issues altogether, for the reason I stated above.
Now look at the rest:
Let's see, do I want funky color teeth, or for my growth to be stunted? I can whiten my teeth....BUT I CANT MAKE MYSELF GROW!
Suzanne,
I'm not ragging on your post. I am just asking a good question that any sane person would ask if they were looking for real answers about something so serious as drugs and medications. I am very happy for your daughters recovery. Answers that cannot be found anywhere. According to this, minocycline helps 60% of what? 60% of 200 minor arthritis sufferers? Nobody can show any reasonable study concerning minocin and RA. Certainly nothing on moderate or severe. I just asked you what is missing and what's missing is the most important and pertinant facts, it's that simple. There are no facts. Why get mad at me for asking questions that should be asked and answered by fact not opinion or personal testimony. Enbrel has facts. Enbrel has data studies not marketing studies. You don't see anything wrong with that. I am one of the people that has forever said take anything you want, try it and if it works very good no matter what it is. I am not ragging on minocin, but it is not the miracle cure that it's been said to be for RA and may I add, with absolutely no data to prove otherwise.
Tender,
I am for all research. If you have followed my posts you should be well aware of all of the new drugs in the makings and trials that I have posted. Do I think that a drug company is under some obligation to fund another study or trial that is not done the way that all new drugs have to be. Absolutely not. Let them go thru the phase trials with all the strict standards set by the fda and then let the chips fall where they may. After the real type of trials there will be nothing for us to discuss, will there? It seems to me that minocin has been around long enough and prescribed long enough that a new study should not be needed. Give us the real, thorough and complete data from the last 10 years. Bump a bunch of these 15-200 people studies. Do you really think that if there was some RA breakthrough that harvard wouldn't have done the funding themselves. Probably that marketing study cost rbf many times more than the minocin that was asked for. When Wyeth previously donated did you hear any organization or group thanking them publicly. Hell no. Most Wyeth ever gets from those orgs is a slap in the face every chance they get when they know that wyeth has it's guard down. Wyeth don't owe them diddly. You and your kids should be thanking companies like Wyeth rather than taking this opportunity to try and take a cheep shot at me and them for your group's sake and to up your rankings, shame on you.
You said this: IMO, it shows that they are looking out for the bottom line and not for the good of the people. The problem with that statement is that it is not fact, it's your opinion stated as if it were fact from your depth of knowledge of how they work since you were "in the business" for 15 years. That's where all the problems are, opinions stated as if documented fact. If proof is asked for then starts the name calling.
You are just blowing smoke tenderjoints. Give me facts and I'll have respect for you. Twenty big pill bottles of your opinions can't cure a headache let alone RA. I live my RA by facts, not opinions and personal testomonies. I trust my governments FDA. Alot more than some profitable non profit that uses marketing firms trying to convince sick and vulnerable people that it was actually some scientific study that can be relied upon to make very serious medical decisions. Minocin has been used forever for RA. GIVE ME THOSE FACTS. Just the facts ma'am. I never attacked research, I'm the one that keeps asking for some concrete research data. Hello????????????? Lights are on, anybody home? You were so delighted with Pip's reposting of some article and it's 80% opinion and insinuations. Knock, knock, knock.
I support all research. If I were a Harvard professor and believed that I could show the world a miracle cure for RA with 15 thousand dollars I could get hat money myself, I wouldn't have to go begging and then mean mounth and lash out insinuations and bad opinions to those that refused the beggings, sounds like a lot of APers I know, disagree and pay the insinuation prices along with a few namecallings.
LEV
Katie -
When I first saw that Boston Globe article, a lot of things I had kind of known about before fell into place. Wyeth made a serious mistake not doing that study. But, unfortunately, it didn't echo enough to hurt their bottom line. And that's what it comes down to. This is really similar to that Nike fiasco. But, hey, enough spin doctors and who cares, right?
You will be saddened to know that soon after Wyeth sent that letter, Harvard soon stopped all studies involving children under 15 with Scleroderma. But it's OK, people like Lev think that's appropriate. I mean, it's not RA and usually fatal. Why help kids?
Me, should I ever have money to invest in stocks, I wouldn't put a dime in Wyeth. It's called 'moral investing'.
That's some pull Wyeth had.
Pip
Lev, you MORON that's why she started that statement with
"IMO"
It means:
IN MY
OPINION
God you're annoying.
Arriscolwell,
I listen to many of your postings and it's clear that you have the mental capabilities of maybe a 10 or 12 year old. I'm not making fun of you and I overlook alot of the childish ways you act out. Until recently I thought it was just an act but after a discussion with another member I realized that you do have some mental disabilities, it isn't an act. I was surprised a few days ago to see you in an actual serious discussion about RA and someone tried to childishly hijack the thread like you and the other 12 year old adults do on a constant basis. What a surprise to see you get angry that someone was childishly hijacking your serious discussion. It's amazing that 20, 30 and even 40 year old women act like this is their AOL "I'm only 12 years old" chat room. I'm not making fun of you and never would make fun of the mentally impaired, but even the mentally impaired need discipline if they are to be allowed in public. Knock it off.
LEV
Unfortunately Lev, you completly missed the point of my post, and continued with your not so subtle demeaning tones and inuendos. " Hello????????????? Lights are on, anybody home?" "Knock, knock, knock. " Are comments like this really necessary? And yes, I have read some of your other posts, and they contain much of the same.
"You and your kids should be thanking companies like Wyeth rather than taking this opportunity to try and take a cheep shot at me and them for your group's sake and to up your rankings, shame on you." Again, I was not taking a 'cheap shot' at anyone, but merely trying to show that with this disease there are many different methods and meds for treating, and none should be made to feel lower or not, as it all depends on the person they are treating. And am unsure why you think I am doing this for my groups sake or to up my rankings?
IMO, means in my opinion, so I was not misleading that it was fact.
I will not lower myself to your level. My main point of the post is that we all need to support each other and the research of ALL treatments until there is one miracle treatment for everyone...and so far, to my knowledge, this does not exist.
Lev,
Your last post to Arriscolwell was completely uncalled for and downright rude and cruel! "I'm not making fun of you and never would make fun of the mentally impaired, but even the mentally impaired need discipline if they are to be allowed in public." How dare you!!
Number 1, from someone with family members and friends with children with mental impairments and disabilities, as well as someone who has worked with Special Olympics for years, that entire post was rude, disrespectful, and just plain mean. Any possible ounce of respect that I could have had for you, just went clear out the window.
Number 2, even if this is the case, that is not something that should be brought up in a public forum.
Number 3, Having worked with and been around children and adults with mental and physical disabilities, I can tell you that they all have a lot more heart and compassion for others in their little fingers then you, Lev, probably have in your entire body.
You are not here to find or offer support to those with RA, but merely to stir the pot and watch the smoke. You disgust me and you should be ashamed of yourself.
S'ok Deb. We've decided that what it really boils down to is that Lev has a crush on me.
Haha
Lev, what the hell thread are you talking about? I've never gotten mad at someone for hijacking a thread, as I know I do it sometimes. I may have reminded them, or tried to put it back on course, but I've never gotten mad.
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