OT - U.S. Presidential Race | Arthritis Information

 

When Bill Clinton was the President of the U.S. he had Hillary at his side. Thus, we had "Billary" in the White House.

Well, if Hillary becomes the next president we will have Bill(y) at her side. Thus, we will have a "HillBilly" in the White House. NO THANKS!!
watchingwolf2008-02-19 21:45:44ha ha   i wish we had someone i felt strong enough to vote for.   i am really quite conservative and we do not have a candidate that fits.   who do you vote for?  questions...questions... Actually I wanted Ron Paul to make it but that isn't going to happen.  I do find Mr. Huckabee acceptable.  McCain scares the living bajeebies outta me and he's done plenty of "flip floppin'" on issues. 

And in all honesty I'm quite impressed with Obama, too. He comes out of the tough Chicago political arena and I'm certain he can go toe to toe with Hillary at any given time and come out on top.  Anyone who can beat the dirty Clinton Machine is well-prepared to lead the nation.

As you can tell I haven't made a decision yet.  Back To You.
watchingwolf2008-02-19 21:52:13watchingwolf,
that was hysterical----thanks for the laugh! that is great so very funny!   i wish i had seen the yelling of gook.   a clear cut candidate would be nice...  there is no such thing right now      night night allI haven't decided yet, but I'm wondering why Obama is scary to Wonderwoman.  I'm still giving it a lot of thought and research and would like to know why some people feel the way they do.  I don't want to start a debate but am curious.  Lindy Well, if I understand WonderWomean right, her concern is that all we really know is that Obama is a darn good speaker.  That's great, but it takes more than that to lead a country.  What's his plan?  How does it differ from Hillary's?It doesn't! That's why it'll either be

Clinton/Obama 2008

Or

Obama/Clinton 2008

KWIM?
They'd be smart to do that, but Hillary must just want to rip off Obama's face right about now heheheheLOL I know! But yeah, I think they will do that. And they'll try to act as if it was their idea all along. (though I'm sure it was someone elses) But who will McCain run with?? I don't know, I hear some people say Huckabee, but I just don't see it.Nah that's a weird match-up.

Now if Huckabee got it.............he'd have to pick Chuck Norris..........LOL

i thought chuck was going to round house kick huckabee into office.

LMAO!!!


I was just thinking that as I was going to start with the CN facts.  Apologies to whoever started this thread, it's easy to get carried away in the middle of the night!! Linncn2008-02-19 23:21:39[QUOTE=watchingwolf] Actually I wanted Ron Paul to make it but that isn't going to happen.
[/QUOTE] I am a McCain girl....definitely not a Hilary or Obama....like everything in life, there are good parts and bad parts to all.  I see no good in Hilary, and Obama doesn't have any experience.  IMHO............i would vote for chuck norris!  :-)Obama is well liked across the pond but then we dont get the coverage that you do.Oh, he is loved big time here.  But so far as I know, he hasn't really said much.  But what he has said is pretty "feel good" type stuff.  Big gaff in his wife's comment about only now for the first time in her adult life being proud of her country.  A lot of people are taken aback by that.Their promoting change that's for sure. I'm just a little concerned about what this change is going consist of. I'm not sure I understand when people say that Obama is...scary. What is scary about him? He was born to a white woman and a black man. His father died in a car crash when he was 10 or 11. Both parents were well educated and his education was a priority. He got his degree in New York City and took his first job in Chicago, working to help raise funds for the people in the south side. He brought about funding for day cares, education for high school drop outs, improved living conditions for the poor people of the inner city. He was popular. He did this for ,000 a year. He then decided he could do more good for these people by going to law school. He attended Harvard and graduated top of his class. All the while, he continued his community involvement, trying to make things better for the poor and working class as well as the elderly and underprivileged populations. He married his wife in 1992 in a christian church, one he attended. They have two little girls born in 1999 and 2001. He is a dedicated family man, and is very popular in his home state.

I'm not sure what part of this is "scary"

Please enlighten me on this?Scary to one man, is not scary to another.

I'm terrified of spiders. You may not be.

Ah, individuality! Ain't it great? I think Obama might be "scary" to some people--because he doesn't have any experience like the others. not to say experience is always good either--but I think thats why people are leary---also he hasn't exactly said what he would do as pres either. we know hope and change---but hope for what and change what?
I don't think there is a clear cut all-around good candidate this time at all. my husband and I don't really like any of them.I am  a very liberal democrat but this presidetial campaign has me uninterested and I can not understand why people are so excited about Obama, he just doesn't do it for me.  People are gushing over him,he can make wonderful speeches but I don't think he can handle the office, his wife probably could but not him.  Hilary is very tough and I think she could standup to anthing but too  many people in the senate hate her, there would just be too much fighting.  Mr MCCain, I did have alot of respect for him but one time a reporter asked him awhile back what we should do about Iran he started singing "BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN" to the tune of the Beach Boys "Barbara Ann" that scared me deeply and saying we could be in Iraq for over a 100yrs didn't help any either.  I wanted Edwards but it wasn't going to happen, he was never given the chance.  I also believe that a cap should be put on presidential campaigns, lets say no more then 15 million can be spent on advertising.  It is criminal what is being spent on campaigns look at what could be done with that money to help people in this country instead of spending it on advertisement and paying off votes.  meme,
I am actually more conservative then liberal---but I TOTALLY AGREE with your post. Hey if we can agree and we are on opposite sides---can't all the people in Washington!!    hee hee LOL Meme, I wanted Edwards too. 

All, the following is a partial list of deaths of persons connected to and/or during President Clinton’s tenure as Governor of Arkansas and as President of the United States.

Read The List and judge for yourself.

JAMES MCDOUGAL. Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. McDougal was a key witness in Kenneth Starr’s investigation.

MARY MAHONEY- A former White House intern was murdered July 6, 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened during the pre-trial publicity surrounding the Paula Jones lawsuit. days after Newsweek’s Mike Isakoff dropped hints that a former White House staffer was about to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

VINCENT FOSTER- Former White House counselor, and former colleague of Hillarv Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose law firm. Foster was found dead July 20, 1993 of a gunshot to the head ruled a suicide.

RON BROWN-Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported to the Bob Grant Radio Show a "hole" in top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

C. VICTOR RAISER II -Former National finance Go-Chairman, Clinton for President Campaign and son MONTGOMERY RAISER died in a private plane crash in Alaska, July30th,1992. Raiser was described as a "major player" in the Clinton organization by Dee Dee Meyers.

PAUL TULLEY. Democrat National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, Arkansas September 24, 1992, Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".

ED WILLEY-Clinton fund raiser-found dead November 30, 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide, Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed that Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

JERRY PARKS-Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information.  After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house

JAMES BUNCH-Died from a gunshot suicide. Reported to have a "black book" of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

JAMES WILSON-Was found dead May 18, 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. Was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

KATHY FERGUSON- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May,1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot wound to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Corbin Jones lawsuit. She was reported a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones case.

BILL SHELTON. Arkansas state Trooper and Fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancee.

GANDY BAUGH -Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January , 1991. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

FLORENCE MARTIN-Accountant subcontractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Dead of three gunshot wounds.

SUZANNE COLEMAN. Reportedly has an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General, Died of a gunshot wound to hack of head, ruled a suicide, was pregnant at the time her death.

PAULA GROBER - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

DANNY CASOLARO. Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

PAUL WILCHER-Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC Apartment. Had delivered report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

JON PARNELL WALKER-Whitewater Investigator for Resolution Trust Corporation. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

BARBARA WISE-Commerce Department Staffer-worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

CHARLES MEISSNER-Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

DR. STANLEY HEARD. Chair National Chiropractic Heath Care Advisory committee died with his attorney .

STEVE DICKSON in a small plane crash. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.

BARRY SEAL. drug running pilot out of Mena, Arkansas, Death was no accident.

JOHNNY LAWHON Jr.- Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

STANLEY MUGGINS-Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee.

His report was never released.

HERSHELL FRIDAY-Attorney & Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

KEVIN IVES & DON HENRY-Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas Airport Drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the two had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many people linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:

KEITH CONEY. Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck in July, 1988:

KEITH McMASKLE. Died, stabbed 113 times, November 1988.

GREGORY COLLINS-Died from a gunshot wound, January 1989. JEFF RHODES-He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

JAMES MILAN. Found decapitated-Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

JORDAN KETTLESON-Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

RICHARD WINTERS . Winters was a suspect in the Ives/Henry deaths.

Was killed in set-up robbery in July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING FORMER CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:

MAJOR WILLIAM S. BARKLEY JR.

CAPTAIN SCOTT J.REYNOLDS

SGT. BRIAN HANEY

SGT. TIM SABEL

MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM ROBERTSON

COL. WILLIAM DENSBERGER

COL. ROBERT KELLY

SPEC. GARY RHODES

STEVE WILLIS

ROBERT WILLIAMS

CONWAY LeBLEU

TODD McKEEHAN

 

just because something is widely circulated does not mean its legit

WOW! That's a long list! WOW!I was also very disappointed when John Edwards quit the race. I think he would have been great. Now McCain has himself in the middle of a scandal. Bad way to get him into the whitehouse. That list is incredible. I had never seen that before. Isn't that odd that NYT endorsed McCain KNOWING about this "scandal"?  Either they don't really believe it or they don't really think it's a big deal.  But if either of those are true, why print it?Linncn, Even some of the " Left " newsprograms were wondering about this story. Most people on either side of the isle say MCcain is an honest and just person. Sounds like a " hit " job by the NYT's. All inuendo and Alledged stuff. Now as far as the candidtaes. I think most people know of " Billarys " past. Obama is an unkown for the most part. I think he is a lot of Hairspray and no subtance. His wife sounds kike a total idiot. MCcain is a known but pisses people off from both parties. I call him a Republicrat. It's Bush/ Kerry all over agin with different names. Dang watchingwolf. That's like...........a mafia list. LOL I wouldn't call that much of a scandal. It's unlikely that it's going to hurt him. They'll have to do better than that. You could make the same list like that for Bush too.  There is going to always be slander and things hidden under the rug by whoever is in office.  Unfortunately that is how government is.  Hmm Lorster do you think we could go knock on Edward's door and tell him we want in back in the race, do you think that ill work.  This is on of the most lackluster group of presidential candidates I have ever seen!!! [QUOTE=arriscolwell]But who will McCain run with?? [/QUOTE]

Scissors?
LMFAO QueenB, Meme and Lorster, do you seriously want a man who would leave his wife who has terminal cancer for his own personal gain?  How would you feel it your husband did that to you?  What kind of person would do that?  What else has he done?   [QUOTE=GG] QueenB, Meme and Lorster, do you seriously want a man who would leave his wife who has terminal cancer for his own personal gain?  How would you feel it your husband did that to you?  What kind of person would do that?  What else has he done?  
[/QUOTE]

I would say your pole jumping to conclusions there. You don't know anything about their private relationship. Maybe his wife's dying wish is that her cancer didn't get in the way of his ambitions. Maybe she's worked her whole life trying to get him to that point and for him to give up right near the finish line would be the most disappointing thing that ever happened to her, and she would die a failure. And how does not quitting the campaign=leaving her?

I'm sorry, but your post seems hugely presumptuous to me.

I'll have to agree with you Lindy about experience. What experience did Ronald Regan have?

Gimpy-a-gogo and Lovie:  Right On!!! [QUOTE=GG] QueenB, Meme and Lorster, do you seriously want a man who would leave his wife who has terminal cancer for his own personal gain?  How would you feel it your husband did that to you?  What kind of person would do that?  What else has he done?  
[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute, did I miss something? Are you talking about John Edwards? I don't think he left his wife did he? If so, I totally missed that. Please someone clarify this?Oooo oh oh oh, I missed this. Great group of smart people. To the left, to the right, on the fence. Stand up, sit down.... I'm like a sponge these past months taking in all this information. One thing I have started doing is listening to the news from BBC channel. No FOX or CNN. BBC doesn't have an adjenda and just spits it out. I must admit, I'm a democrat, my daughter calls me a tree hugger and a bed wetter, but then she's a republican.(where did I go wrong?) I won't say what I call her. We have the best conversations about politics however w/out anger.  That's how I feel here, I can say whatever I want and not be judged. Thanks for that people. With that said, Ms Hillary is one smart cookie, she is well versed in many subjects we are all interested in and Mr. Obama is a young smart man but something about him bothers me. I don't know what, but there's something. Hmmmm. McCain is one smart cookie, but I think he's too set in his ways for a country that wants to move ahead. I am young I admit (46) and want to know more, but everyday I seem to get more confused on what these folks are trying to tell us. No, John Edwards did not leave his wife as in "out the door"  But you can bet your bottom dollar that he was not at home a whole lot.  Remember, she has terminal cancer and I would hope that my husband would want to spend every minute that he could with me and our children.  He is a young man and can run for president in 4 years.  And you know how women are and I bet that most of us would have encouraged him to do the same, but a man who truly loves his family would not do it.   [QUOTE=GG]No, John Edwards did not leave his wife as in "out the door"  But you can bet your bottom dollar that he was not at home a whole lot.  Remember, she has terminal cancer and I would hope that my husband would want to spend every minute that he could with me and our children.  He is a young man and can run for president in 4 years.  And you know how women are and I bet that most of us would have encouraged him to do the same, but a man who truly loves his family would not do it.   [/QUOTE]

Is it "terminal" or just "inoperable"?  The two are often one and the same, but not always.  My stepmother has had ovarian cancer for over 15 years.  It's been inoperable for the past several years... but it's a slow-growing cancer.  They beat it back with radiation and/or chemotherapy every so often.  She was doing pretty bad for a while this past fall, but she is springing back yet again.   Dad says she's like a Timex.Mrs. Edwards was the one who wouldn't let him leave in the beginning. Anyone that is in a committed relationship knows that decisions are made pretty much together. She was pushing him to keep on keepin' on.
Whoa! - Wait a minute! The decisions John Edwards and his wife make regarding their relationship and future are their decisions.  Nobody else has the insight to know what their goals in life are or what they want for each other.  For sure there isn't anyone else having the right to decide what is best for them or their family.  When you're highly visible (in the public eye) you can be sure they are in agreement with what's best for them and their family. 

Personally, I would never put myself in the position of judging what is right or wrong or anything in between for any person or couple.
watchingwolf2008-02-21 16:33:05Clinton got a great bj in the white house we all know. However, personally speaking here"  our family and business only made money during his presidency and we were not at war. I'm a fan. I'm outted.  He cracks me up and he's pretty smart.  And,... it wasn't because of the( .com)  industry we all did well.  To me it's all about management. I'm not a student of government like I should be, but I know common sense. I've been listening and  have lived the last 8  presidencies in this great country and know who I'd like to have my back. I think Ms. Rice is a crazy smart woman and should run for office. I'd have to jump a fence for her I think. Anyway, smart people, I want smart people. And that's all fer now. Monk 

Mrs. Edwards is a very strong woman and she had stated she wanted her husband to continue with the campaign, because she believed in him and that he should become the president of the USA.  Now the campaign is over he has not left her side.  I am sorry but if it was me and I felt my husband could make a positive change to this country then yes I would have made him go and continue to see if he could become president.

rut roh, McCain has campaign money troubles with the FEC - somebody screwed up royalIf my memory is still somewhat intact, I believe Mrs. Edwards cancer is stage 4 which means metatatic, it has spread to adjacent organs, bones, lymph, etc. I know women have survived this stage with the new treatments that are available to them. Time will tell. The odds are against her but she may be one to beat this. I sure hope so. Her kids are so young to lose their mom.I haven't been a John Edwards fan at all.  But I hope his wife pulls through.I'll eat my hat if there is an Obama/Clinton or visa versa ticket.
I am hoping if Obama wins he will surround himself with some smart people.  People who are dedicated to keeping peace around the world. People who are the brightest financial scholars.
People who understand that our health care needs to be addressed immediately.

Actually anyone black, white or green would do the trick for me if they fit that criteria.
Republican or Democrat.
Thinkthin~  I just heard this quote on the radio, I think it sums up your post "Everybody wants to vote for the best man.  The problem is that he's never on the ballot".  Don't remember who said it though.Hi ThinkThin, I couldn't agree more and I think he will surround himself with smart, commonsense individuals if he becomes President.  I think he's the type of person who will pull people in based on smarts, diplomacy and not party lines.  Finally, in my lifetime I've been given three individuals that I could support!  That's amazing. It's forced me to think and research.  It's been a hard decision.   Lindy [QUOTE=justsaynoemore]rut roh, McCain has campaign money troubles with the FEC - somebody screwed up royal[/QUOTE]

LinB, and you think Obama is one of these individuals?  I'm curious as to why.  Isn't he really just about the same socialist ideas that Hillary, Kerry and the like are about?  If you think not, then why not?  What, exactly, is different about him?

It's amazing that so many people speak so highly of Barack Husein Obama when they absolutely know nothing about him. Look how many people say they think that he is the type of person to bring people together but they haven't even researched enough to know that Barack Husein Obama voted 96-98 % straight down democratic lines, hello? He didn't vote good or bad fair or unfair, if it was against the administration, he voted against it and yet you think he will change upon being sworn in as president? If you want someone that votes concience, vote Lieberman, that's why the democrats didn't like that democrat, he voted right and wrong instead of straight down political lines. Barack Husein Obama get's way to many free passes. Once his eloquence escapes you and you do your research, his logic will tie you up and rape you. Listen, he voted 96-98% straight down party lines. He has no logic of his own or concience to sway him to right even if it's right.........................LEVLinncn, am not going to debate the merits of one vs. the other.  You can google, research, and make your decisions based on how you feel, your political ideologies, and past experiences.  My opinions are just that, mine.  I made the decision based on research.  Everyone should make up their own mind based on their own research.  I don't use this forum as a debating tool or to try and change people's minds.  I just state how I feel.  Lindy   Oh.  So then you don't know, huh?Linncn, whoa, you called me out.  You're so right.....I don't know [QUOTE=arriscolwell]McCain yelled "gook" on national television.

I drew the line there! But that's just me.

Hillary and Obama worry me in that I'm actually concerned with how OTHER countries will view us with one of them (or both, you know it's just gonna end up a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket anyway) in office. KWIM???? Other countries can be so.........foreign! HAH.

I need sleep I shouldn't even be posting......hehehe
[/QUOTE]

Well no Katie.  I asked her about a fact to support her opinion.  I already knew her opinion.  I wanted to know WHY she felt that way.  She doesn't want to say, which is weird because she entered this thread.  But whatever.........

What the heck does KWIM mean? I keep seeing this but can't figure it out. Fill me in. Know what I mean=KWIMOh, okay. I misunderstood you Link. [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] Linncn. I like Lindy, have gone and researched the candidates, looked at their voting records, what they stand for, what they have done, what they can and say they will do. I don't vote because they are dems or repubs, I vote more on issues. Not every candidate is going to fit the exact bill we are going to look for so I try to find one that best fits what I believe in. It just so happens that the Dems are more of a match for my beliefs. I think this is what Lindy does also. I don't think I'm bad because I'm a Democrat and I don't believe you are bad because you are a Republican. We are all Americans and are in this together, to fight for what we believe and hopefully find a leader that can most represent all of us. This is a big ticket to fill and who ever is elected is not going to please all the people, all the time. I think we all agree that we want what will make us a better country, for everyone. That really is what it is all about. I just want the next years to be better than they have been. If it wasn't for Link's side and Lorster's side, Let me put this more into perspective. I do agree with levlarry about Leiberman---my husband and I really like him alot. Too bad he wasn't running again.*sigh* I need to get off the boards for the night. LevLarry: Regardless of what party any member chooses to affiliate with your unkind remarks about Obama are an insult to anyone who has decided Obama is their Presidential choice.

"SHAME ON YOU!"
katie---that was funny!!!     my husband senator Leiberman!! hee heeMr.Obama is my Senator, in my state..He got my vote...
My son sacrificed, for his country in the military, recently..and i can tell you, he was a die hard Republican, but he he going for Obama...
Our young men, are paying for the poor judgement, of the more "experienced old-timer politicans,....big time, with their lives..
I believe Barack Obama, will be a fine diplomat, with other countries.




AP) Just 23 years old, Barack Obama was nicknamed "Baby Face" by mothers as he tried to organize poor people on Chicago's South Side to join together and pressure the city to fix potholes, clean parks and remove asbestos insulation from public housing.

Those small battles among the decayed neighborhoods and the unemployed left by departing steel mills and factories taught a naive new community organizer that politics included backroom deals not discussed in civics books. Those practical lessons formed the basis of his promise today to fix a broken political system and give people hope.

People who worked with Obama then say he was so naive that he initially didn't understand how people with money and prominence got extra attention from politicians.

Over three sometimes frustrating years on the South Side, Obama met community leaders and politicians who later provided crucial help for his political career, but he also concluded that to make real change he would have to leave the streets and study law.

"What Chicago did for him was teach him how to be practical," said Jerry Kellman, who hired Obama for the organizing job. "The world is not always an honest, nice place. If you want to do honest, nice things, you still have to understand what makes things move."

Today, Obama calls his work as a community organizer "the best education I ever had" and often cites it as one of the reasons he would make a good president.

"We have been told by the cynics that you can't build change from the bottom up. But one of the things that I've learned as a community organizer is that it is the American people who are the true agents of change in this country," he said in one speech.

After graduating from Columbia University, Obama got a dull financial-services job in New York City but soon quit and searched for a community organizing job. Eventually, he got a one-of-a-kind offer: Move to a strange city, earn next-to-nothing and help people in run-down neighborhoods tackle their problems.

The offer came from Kellman, head of Chicago's Developing Communities Project, a one-man organization funded by an arm of the Catholic Church and overseen by a coalition of black churches.

Kellman wanted Obama to get to know the people and problems of the largely black South Side and then take over as the project's sole employee. When he arrived in 1985, Obama was paid just over ,000 plus enough money to buy a beat-up Honda.

At times, Obama's goals were as small as getting a specific pothole repaired. It was a victory just to get administrators to tour the area's dilapidated parks and see for themselves that the sandboxes were littered with broken glass and the tennis courts lacked nets.

Other projects included trying to bring summer jobs to the area or get asbestos removed from a housing complex.

Obama's job was to explain to local residents how to research their problems, contact political officials and answer reporters' questions. He figured out who the community leaders were and tried to get them to join forces.

"He had to train residents to stand up for their own rights," said Loretta Augustine-Herron, who was part of the Developing Communities Project.

Kellman said Obama stepped into a world of turf battles and jealousy, as aldermen, ministers and community activists resisted anything that might reduce their authority. Some people - Kellman called them "bad-mouthing, rumor-mongering scum" - whispered that Obama was a puppet of his Jewish boss or of the Catholic Church.

Obama ignored the whispers and built personal relationships with people open to change, Kellman said, and he learned the notorious reality of Chicago politics: Politicians help organizations that hire their relatives. Organizations assist politicians who arrange government grants. Businesses, if they're smart, hire lawyers and insurance agents who also happen to be local politicians.

While he got a cold reception from some insiders, Obama was welcomed by the older women active in the Developing Communities Project. They watched over the young man adjusting to a new city far from his family in Hawaii.

"We would get on him about not eating because he was thin. He was a little fella," said Yvonne Lloyd, who now lives in Nashville, Tenn.

Obama, his mother a nonbeliever and his father absent, grew up without religion. But as he worked with South Side ministers and devout volunteers, he became interested. Eventually, he began attending Trinity United Church of Christ, a church - not affiliated with his project - whose pastors honored African history and preached the importance of giving back to the community.

A major task during Obama's stay was getting the Chicago Housing Authority to remove asbestos insulation from the Altgeld Gardens housing project. In late 1987, the authority approved .2 million in removal contracts.

One community activist, Hazel Johnson, who won national acclaim for battling South Side pollution, said she - not Obama - was the lead voice in pressuring the housing authority to act, although Obama writes about the issue extensively in "Dreams from My Father."

Others maintain Obama played a key role by arranging community meetings and helping Altgeld residents make plans. Obama was part of a delegation of residents who asked a powerful city alderman to intercede with the mayor, according to a 1986 Chicago Sun-Times story.

If Obama wasn't in the spotlight, it's because his job was to help residents help themselves, according to those who worked with him.

"He could have presented the issue better than any of us, but it wouldn't have gotten us the results that we needed," said Augustine-Herron. "You know, you need someone of the community to identify the problem and to present it to the authorities of CHA."

Obama was visible enough to catch the eye of a future political mentor, Illinois Senate President Emil Jones.

Jones recalls Obama's group holding a demonstration down the street from his legislative office. "I saw him out there, so I went and talked to him and said, 'Why don't you come in the office?"' said Jones.

When Obama was elected to the state legislature, Jones gave him important assignments. When Obama wanted to run for the U.S. Senate, Jones threw his considerable influence behind the longshot candidate.

Lloyd, one of the South Side women who treated Obama like a son, said she wasn't surprised he later ran for office.

"In the back of his mind," she said, "it was politics, I think that was always there ... because he wanted to see things change."

After three years on the South Side, he left to attend Harvard Law School and study "things that would help me bring about real change ... power's currency in all its intricacy," Obama wrote in his memoir "Dreams from My Father."

        . Linda61,

I just wanted to thank you and your son for his service to our country. He has me and my familys highest respect and admiration. Yes I agree with wysone please tell your son thank you.  I don't know much about Obama, I just am not thrilled by who is out there right now.  I am impressed by Obama's wife, I think she is an incredible lady, but I am just not sold on Obama.  There are a couple out there I wish that had thrown their hat in the ring, but hopefully the right person will get the job in November and do what is right for this country.If Arnie Ran for Pres: Will he be  back too???? omg hehehehehehehe meme2008-02-22 20:52:26Oh, that's his re-elect slogan. [QUOTE=levlarry] Let me put this more into perspective.

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Well Lev, Mrs. Linbee really didn't have to worry about the brain surgery because the hospital insurance person came to her and informed her that the hiccoughs she had ten years earlier was a pre existing condition so her insurance is being cancelled. Also, Dr. Obama had a speaking engagement that day, so Dr. Bush is filling in. He was in Africa last week and actually ate brain and is now the worlds renowned expert in monkey brain. That should more than qualify him to do her surgery. However, before she can actually have the surgery, she will have to take out a third mortgage on her house to cover the surgery as well as all the lost time at work. Once Dr. Bush has messed with her brain, she won't have to worry about ever working again.

I don't want a President, no matter how nice, good, friendly, eloquent, who, at the very base of every policy is the belief that I can't do anythiing for myself.  I need the government to take care of me because I'm THAT helpless.  When the government supports you, you become helpless.  Puts a lot of power in their pockets, that's for sure.  The person who holds the purse strings has the power.  Everyone knows that.I totally agree with you Linncn but I don't want them playing the fear card constantly. We have not been attacked since 911 and I do wonder what would happen if we were. I honestly do not think we would have the resources on our soil to handle it. I guess it is going to have to happen, to see if and how we handle it. I guess this war is what makes me most unhappy about the current administration.

And remember, it is not YOUR government or MY government, It is OUR government, it works for us, not the other way around. It is like hiring a doctor or lawyer to do a job for us. I expect them to handle all aspects of what they are hired to do. If it is keeping us safe, or using OUR money wisely, that is what they promise they will do and they better deliver. We should not be dependent on our government, but we almost have to be. They are intertwined into our lives. I would hate to see a society that did not have a government. I just do not see how that would work. So this is slightly off issue, but not at the same time. Katie Yeah, I don't know anything about the pricing, but I do know they're expensive. I know losing these two has dented our base a lot. It wouldn't have seemed like it could before it happened, but now that it's a reality, it's a whole new story.Katie, my husband and I would not make enough in ten lifetimes to pay for one bomberAh. So I'm thinkin billion over 5 years is just a dent. Sound close?well the B-2 stealth bomber that crashed yesterday cost 1.2 bln dollars...so yeah 20 bln is just a very small dent. 2 F-15s is what crashed here. it crashed in GuamHm. Does that feel like de ja vous? Have we had other crashes in Guam? I mean, I know they crash from time to time, but..............it's feeling erie for some reason.Oh *goodie*