Drug called LDN? Found this somewhere | Arthritis Information
http://ldninfo.org/
Anyone heard of it? I stumbled across it by accident. I've never heard of it and I honestly didn't get a chance to research it more. Thought I'd start by posting it here to see if anyone else has heard about it!!!
Very interesting Katie.
I found a response from a doctor that indicated they hadn't seen any good studies on it.
I'll see if I can find something.
Awesome, thank you.
I'm currently working on a myspace for the Arthritis Haven - that's how I keep finding all these things.
I'm googling my heart out looking for images to use on the myspace page, and I keep finding random things I'd NEVER heard of before.
Ah, the power of the internet!
what does AP stand for? thanks, susan[QUOTE=wonderwoman]what does AP stand for? thanks, susan[/QUOTE]
Susan, it stands for Antibiotic Protocol.
Katie, I can only find pages talking about how there isn't any clinical studies going on. Maybe Nikki can find something.
kweenb2008-02-26 16:10:42Hi guys, I found this and I am definitely asking my RD and GP if I can try it. Thanks, Janie.
www.lowdosenaltrexone.org
I want to believe it, as they're actually NOT marketing it as a "cure"
They're simply saying that it's a great addition to your current treatment - it makes it all "work better"
Can't say that's too hard to believe, as MTX acts that way in conjunction with biologics....
Very very curious..........I'm still interested to hear of someone who's
actually taken it though!
Naltrexone is an opioid antagonist. It is used to treat heroin overdose by binding antagonistically to the opioid receptors. It can also be used to treat alcoholism. What did you hear about it as far as RA goes? One thing for you guys to keep in mind is that if you take opioids for pain (ex. Vicodin, norco, etc.) they will not work while you are taking naltrexone. It is also possible that after discontinuation of naltrexone therapy and resumption of opioids the effect could be much enhanced, this could cause problems with breathing, slowed heart rate etc.
Rx2Heal2008-02-26 22:59:38Nikki will only find stuff that says it doesn't work. LOL We're looking for the other side!
OK, Katie - I've seen and saved research from someplace about this and was going to study it sometime. Really. Rx2Heal said some interesting things - and I think it was covered in what I saved. I do know that a friend had a link to a natural health medical website that TOOK NO ADVERTISING - which told me that the studies they reported on were a bit less 'suspect' than usual.
Will try to find it today....
Pip
I don't remember where I found it in relation to RA. I was doing some MASSIVE goggle searches at the time.
If you scan through the site that I posted though, it DOES list RA, as well as all the common and some more uncommon AI diseases.
I've seen that doctor's name somewhere, Gluck? Can't remember if it was good or bad, though..... Alright I've read this stupid thread like 20 times now. Am I that dumb, or am I just not making a connection here???
Who's Nikki?!?!? LOL
Lynn49 posts as Nikkilynn on AF.Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Ok.
[QUOTE=Pip!]Nikki will only find stuff that says it doesn't work. LOL We're looking for the other side! [/QUOTE]
Hey Pip. Good point! Maybe Susanita could find something. Okay even after reading stuff about it, I still don't get how it works.
I think I'm being drasticly thrown off the train of thought by the whole "it was used for heroin addicts" thing. Maybe?
Maybe I'm just thick today. It wouldn't surprise me at all *sigh* brain fog, you know.
I didn't know about the heroin addicts - or maybe it was only a mention. The research I saw seemed legit - maybe from NCCAM???
If my FREAKIN' computer worked I might be able to find it - my filing cabinet is kind of messed up right now - besides the 'no good subject line' I mean.
Pip
You have 3 things wrong with your computer Pippy.
1) You have AOL.
2) You have AOL.
3) You have AOL.
*grin*
A theory on how this drug might work.
Im sure a lot of you take vicodin and notice over time that you have to take more and more in order to achieve the same pain-killing effect. This is because vicodin is an opioid agonist and when it binds to the receptor over time the receptor becomes downregulated (meaning less of the receptors are produced for the drug to bind to). Well just the opposite can happen also with the antagonist (naltrexone). When the naltrexone binds it prevents many (but not all) of the natural substrates (endogenous opioids/endorphins) from binding to the receptor, so the body tries to balance it out by producing more receptors. My theory is that with a constant amount of the low dose naltrexone administered the receptors become chronically upregulated (so there are always way more than a normal amount in the body). The endogenous endorphins, however must still be produced at the same level and with so many receptors now available for binding the pain killing power of even small amounts of endogenous endorphins that we naturally produce is enough to ameliorate a much larger amount of pain. Perhaps they could give the low dose naltrexone combined with pulse therapy of opioids. This would allow only up regulation and still be able to administer the opioids with no decreased therapeutic effect. The type of receptor is a G-protein coupled receptor and these are known to act in this manner (become up/down regulated, and sensitized/desensitized easily). Anyways I'm sorry for all of the science jargon, but this is my theory on how it could possibly work in the treatment of RA.
How does LDN work?
> LDN boosts the immune system, activating the body's own natural defenses.
Up to the present time, the question of "What controls the immune system?" has not been present in the curricula of medical colleges and the issue has not formed a part of the received wisdom of practicing physicians. Nonetheless, a body of research over the past two decades has pointed repeatedly to one's own endorphin secretions (our internal opioids) as playing the central role in the beneficial orchestration of the immune system, and recognition of the facts is growing.
Witness these statements from a review article of medical progress in the November 13, 2003 issue of the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine: "Opioid-Induced Immune Modulation: .... Preclinical evidence indicates overwhelmingly that opioids alter the development, differentiation, and function of immune cells, and that both innate and adaptive systems are affected.1,2 Bone marrow progenitor cells, macrophages, natural killer cells, immature thymocytes and T cells, and B cells are all involved. The relatively recent identification of opioid-related receptors on immune cells makes it even more likely that opioids have direct effects on the immune system.3"
The brief blockade of opioid receptors between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. that is caused by taking LDN at bedtime each night is believed to produce a prolonged up-regulation of vital elements of the immune system by causing an increase in endorphin and enkephalin production. Normal volunteers who have taken LDN in this fashion have been found to have much higher levels of beta-endorphins circulating in their blood in the following days. Animal research by I. Zagon, PhD, and his colleagues has shown a marked increase in metenkephalin levels as well. [Note: Additional information for Dr. Zagon can be found at the end of this page.]
Bihari says that his patients with HIV/AIDS who regularly took LDN before the availability of HAART were generally spared any deterioration of their important helper T cells (CD4+).
In human cancer, research by Zagon over many years has demonstrated inhibition of a number of different human tumors in laboratory studies by using endorphins and low dose naltrexone. It is suggested that the increased endorphin and enkephalin levels, induced by LDN, work directly on the tumors' opioid receptors — and, perhaps, induce cancer cell death (apoptosis). In addition, it is believed that they act to increase natural killer cells and other healthy immune defenses against cancer.
In general, in people with diseases that are partially or largely triggered by a deficiency of endorphins (including cancer and autoimmune diseases), or are accelerated by a deficiency of endorphins (such as HIV/AIDS), restoration of the body's normal production of endorphins is the major therapeutic action of LDN.
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Okay so after re-reading it, I see it now.
They're saying that these diseases are triggered by low endorphins. Taking opioids UPS your endorphins - however over time your body shuts down a lot of the receptors to opiods, in essence, shuting down the endorphines you were trying to up.
LDN stops you from shutting down those receptors, so your endorphins are given a boost. Never to go low again.
But that's about all I get from it................what makes it scary is that this is basically saying "lets treat all these diseases with massive amounts of pain killers" O.o If that really worked, wouldn't people who are on biologics and pain killers at the get go see some change in their progress? And yet that's not true for a good majority of people. It takes a while to find a med that slows the disease process. How on EARTH scientists and doctors would have missed PAIN KILLERS slowing the disease is far far beyond me.
While I'm certianly NOT knocking the idea that endorphins or hormones are related to the tirggers or causes of this disease or any others, I AM questiong how this seemingly simple treatment could have possibly been *this* overlooked. KWIM?
And that's my soap box for the day!
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