OT: illegal immigrants....just a few facts | Arthritis Information

 

1. Billion to billion is spent on welfare to
illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
<http://tinyurl.com/zob77>  
        
2. .2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food
assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches
for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
<http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html>  
        
3. .5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for
illegal aliens.  http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
<http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html>  
        
4. Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and
secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot
speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
<http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html>  
        
5. Billion dollars a year is spent for education for
the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
<http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html>  
        
6. Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
<http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html>  
        
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal
aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
<http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html>  
        
8. Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens
for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
<http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html>  
        
9. 0 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American
wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
<http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html>  
        

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime
rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In
particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime
problem in the US.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
<http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html>  
        
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION
illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500
illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs,
cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the
Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
<http://tinyurl.com/t9sht>  
        
12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the
total cost of mass deportation would be between 6 and 0 billion or
an average cost of between and billion annually over a five year
period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
<http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf>  
        
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home BILLION in
remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
<http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm>  
        
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One
Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United
States". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
<http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml> 
       
        Total cost is a whooping... 8.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!

 

 

This YouTube video is also interesting and on a simular subject. (Warming: It's a little long)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Don't get me started.  Wow. Well Lovie, I guess this makes THIS war OK.Oh, Lovie I didn't think you were trying to use the money we throw at  illegal immigrants to justify war.  One thing has nothing to do with the other.   But I guess when a major complaint of the anti war crowd is the cost in dollars, you wonder why those same people don't complain about this.  I thought that too Link. I know.  Doesn't it drive you crazy that money you pay into the system, money that you could use elsewhere is going to support people that won't pay into the system?  They keep all of what they earn, plus part of what you earn.No, what drives me crazy is not having the gold thats supposedly backing up my money. Why do I have to have paper? Just gimmie the damn gold............. I will take the gold too, please.We've seen this sort of thing happening alot at emergency rooms. Unfortunately we have been there twice in the last 2 years due to my husbands amazing ability to cut his hand open or crack or rib etc etc etc   (typical man I guess) anyways every time we are there----they are asking us for our "copay" right away and the man or woman sitting next to us that doesn't speak a word of English gets off the hook for that all together.   It always pisses my hubby off. Oh and they get taken in first because they need a translater and because the translater is expensive and we pay for that too---they try to get them in and out first and quickly.   
We were just at the emergency room last night for my hubbys cracked rib---which at the time we didn't know thats what it was--he was just having some extreme chest pain---but alas they made him wait while the non-English speaking pateint got in first!!   And we were there before them!I would hope the ER was treating on an 'as need' basis. That is, whoever is hurt worse gets seen first. You never go to an ER and are seen in the order that you arrived ya know. ;-) Sure would suck for that 10th person who was currently bleeding all over the floor.......yeah---tell me about it. that wouldn't be so nice, huh? I don't know what they were there for but they were walking fine and there wasn't any blood------in the meantime my hubby couldn't breath, walk or sit, he was in so much pain. and they seemed to be swearing in Spanish too, from the get-go. I am thinking of trying that next time! My oldest son is taking Spanish, so maybe I can get some tips from him.
We have decided not to go to that emergency room anymore---although its tough because its the closest to our home.Well they can't all be winners. We don't visit the hospital that is in walking distance to our house. Nope. We drive out past work a good 45 min to an hour. Its beyond worth it. I could list on and on and on about that place it sucks. so true!   I live further north in my state and I use to live more south and I've had all my docs there for years---its too hard to switch for me at least---so we continue to keep them and drive about an hour to all of our appts.
this hospital is not in the "good group" of where our regular docs are, and that was apparent last night.   but it just reaffirms for me why I don't make the switch. driving an hour is well worth it!!

P.S. I figured I would switch over to regular black writing---the pink was bringing out my soon-to-be-diagnosed near-sightedness! I will try to go back and forth as to not bring out anyone elses eye problems!! This seems like rascist one-sided economics to me. I wonder what the numbers would be like if their labour contributions to society were factored in? What if these people were being paid a decent wage with legal protection and benefits for the jobs they do? Everyone would be crying about how much their food costs and trucking costs and how much it costs to get their washing done. Rather than being upset at people who are just trying to have a better future for themselves and work very hard why don't you people turn your attention to their exploiters? (If you eat food and wear clothes that would be YOU, btw).Well Gimpy.  Maybe we should send all our illegal aliens to Canada to be a burden on your tax base.  What would happen to your wonderful social medicine if you suddenly had millions and millions of people leaching off it and not paying into it?  How about your public education?  Now you have to provide books supplies, teachers etc for all their offspring.  Well, that was certainly a predictable response. You think America is the only country people illegally immigrate to? All first world democratic countries have illegal immigration problems, it's just in Canada we don't work ourselves up into a frothing racist anger and blame all our problems on it. [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Well, that was certainly a predictable response. You think America is the only country people illegally immigrate to? All first world democratic countries have illegal immigration problems, it's just in Canada we don't work ourselves up into a frothing racist anger and blame all our problems on it. [/QUOTE]

I doubt that Canada has the percentages we have down here in the States.

Much of the blame certainly lies with the employers and others who profit from the hard work of many of the immigrants, but the immigrants themselves deserve a great deal of the blame as well.
Oh, that's what it is.  A "frothing racist anger".   I guess if your country likes having law breakers come in and take your stuff, fine.  It doesn't seem like you like it much at the border crossing but maybe you guys are just frothing hypocrites???  Open your borders if you like it so much.   Gimpy has no idea what racism means.  Here's a clue for ya.  It is NOT racist to acknowledge race.  In general, Americans don't mind law abiding people of any race.  Here's a shock for your immaculate Canadian brain....we don't like your average white guy breaking our laws either.JR, you're right but it's because of the different immigration policies:

"When compared to United States, illegal immigration to Canada is less. One can enter Canada either illegally, or as a refugee, citizen, or permanent immigrant. Entering illegally should not be necessary in Canada, because the country has the most liberal immigration and refugee entry laws in the world.

For political reasons, the Canadian government took the initiative to legalize undocumented people by granting amnesty. Illegal immigrants in Canada are granted permanent immigrant status during these amnesties. People who commit serious crimes are unlikely to get amnesty."
http://ezinearticles.com/?Illegal-Immigration-to-Canada&id=410286

As opposed to this opinion:
"With someone leading the anti-illegal immigrant charge seemingly every decade, why have their numbers continued to rise? Perhaps Robert Justich and Betty Ng, the financial analysts who conducted the Bear Stearns report, put it best: "The United States is simply hooked on cheap, illegal workers and deferring the costs of providing public services to these quasi-Americans. Illegal immigration has been America's way of competing with the low-wage forces of Asia and Latin America, and deserves more credit for the steroid-enhanced effect it has had on productivity, low inflation, housing starts and retail sales."
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/06.22.05/immigration-0525.html

So I guess in canada the solution is to make them legal, get thm to pay tax and allow them into the social service net, whereas the US takes the approach to marginalise them, exploit their labour and give them no social services. Then hate them for it.

Gimpy-a-gogo2008-02-28 13:20:24I don't hate them for it.  But I refuse to see them as the innocent victims either.


Okay, maybe I should say BLAME them for it, then, but I sure see a lot of hatred on this thread. [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]Okay, maybe I should say BLAME them for it, then, but I sure see a lot of hatred on this thread.[/QUOTE]

Again, my position is that they share in the blame.
Well as if this thread isn't stirred up enough.......

I don't want to give these law breakers amnesty.  Send them home and let them come back the right way.  If they do that I'll say "welcome to America".

The whole situation is a mess-regardless of your viewopoint. When I taught in Arlington, VA I taught in a title 1 school that was basically for the public housing developements on that side of the county. I had numerous kids (first grade at the time-whew, give me my high/middle schoolers anyday) that had 3 to 4 families into an apartment. Anyway, we faced numerous problems with contacting parents. Many were not here legally. I do not know how the school system handles it-I was just the teacher. Anyway-concerns about academics, illnesses, fights....it was impossible to get ahold of families. Even for good stuff-like assemblies and awards. I had one child that needed to be in a reading program after school. I ended up driving her home cause her parents would not step foot in the building. Now, I did have a permission form the one of the interpreters wrote up and the parent signed-but probably still not the smartest move on my part. I was young-in that save the world mode.

Anyway, I am torn on the issue. Many of these parents left horrible situations. I have a student now whose family came illeagally. Her brother(13) is missing and presumed dead in TX. The "coyotes" (men who take people across and to different areas). Left him behind as he was running a fever. Just shoved him out of the van. He was coming later, my student and her mom were already here. Anyway, Her father was apparently killed in some protest and they felt that this was the only way to preserve the family. Really, it is the kids that break my heart. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Just, the way we handle it now is wrong.

Obviously I don't need to run for president--I would just cry, hug the kids, yell at those here illegally causing problems, and say "fix it!" [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo] This seems like rascist one-sided economics to me. I wonder what the numbers would be like if their labour contributions to society were factored in? What if these people were being paid a decent wage with legal protection and benefits for the jobs they do? Everyone would be crying about how much their food costs and trucking costs and how much it costs to get their washing done. Rather than being upset at people who are just trying to have a better future for themselves and work very hard why don't you people turn your attention to their exploiters? (If you eat food and wear clothes that would be YOU, btw).[/QUOTE]


BRAVO!!!Okay I must live in a different frickin America.

Around here, if you're an illegal immigrant you'll get the job before anyone else and only get paid MAYBE a dollar less than the job is worth. If that, in fact a lot of times you'll get paid just the same! You'll get it because they can (excuse my language) f**k with your pay periods and "work weeks" until they don't have to pay you overtime, yet make you work it. You also won't argue with them when they cut your hours back and back and back in the off season to save their asses money. You also won't argue if they fire you for *no* reason. They can lie to you and say you don't earn vacation time or sick time at this job. They can add whatever random tasks they like to your job and say you have to or get fired, and you won't argue. You won't argue because you don't speak english, you don't know any better, and - omg, get this! YOU'RE NOT A LEGAL CITIZEN!!! (novel f**king concept, ain't it?)

I can go on and on and on and on.

The thing about this is, they are NOT making less than me, and if/when they are it is NOT much. As in, it could honestly be debated that it's a fair wage.

So it's not so much that these people are coming in and doing "crap job" for "less money" it's that they're coming in here taking ANY jobs we have, doing it poorly (oh yes, around here they ARE, you may ask anyone in NWF) and letting companies get away with more and more poor practices.

And because they can do it to the mexican/russian/panamanian/hungarian/etc etc etc they THINK they can do it to us(you know, LEGAL americans) And it SUCKS ASS.



So I'm not saying I have a solution, I'm just saying the situation that we're CURRENTLY IN, is a whole lot sh*ttier than YOU - (might I point out not someone who lives in the US and sees it EVERY DAY) - may *think* it is.

its not a simple problem.  I totally agree we need to go after the employers.  Construction, landscaping, and farming are notorious for hiring undocuemented workers.  Unfortunately the problem isn't just the people here to work its the "daytrippers" along the border.  Its children walking across the border to go to school, its pregnant woman coming across to give birth.  Its the sick coming across for free medical treatment.  They get better treatment in the US than they do in their own country.  But these border cities can't afford this. 

You can just punch in illegal immigrants on the internet, and get info...this is from the Vancouver Sun, and it isn't that old

THIS IS NO WAY, THE SAME PROBLEM AS UNITED STATES....as you can see this article says we have 13 million illegal imigrants, compared to 120,000 in Canada...




Canadians want illegal immigrants deported: poll
By Jack Aubry, CanWest News Service
Published: Saturday, October 20, 2007
OTTAWA - A majority of Canadians believe immigrants who are in the country illegally or after their visas expire should be deported, even if they have family ties in the country, a newly released government poll shows.
Conducted for Citizenship and Immigration Canada, the national poll revealed that respondents didn't make a distinction between "undocumented workers" and "workers without the proper work permits," with nearly two-thirds of Canadians coming down hard on illegal immigrants because they did not follow the rules.
"Half say that they feel the same way about immigrants who have studied in Canada and have the potential to contribute to this country but who are now here illegally because their visas have run out," said the poll summary. As well, a slight majority said immigrants who did not go through the proper application process should be deported despite the existence of family members already in the country.

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Prof. Peter Showler, director of the Refugee Forum at the University of Ottawa, said it is a "very high Canadian value" to oppose queue-jumping by anyone in the country, including immigrants.
"We are a very civil society and we like the idea that people should play by the rules, and we don't like it when there are rule-breakers and I think that has been a fairly consistent view," said Showler. However, he added that Canadians are very "schizophrenic" on the issue and once personal details about an immigrant, who is about to be deported, become public through the media, they often become extremely supportive.
He said estimates on the number of illegal immigrants in Canada generally range from 35,000 to 120,000 - a relatively small percentage of the national population when compared to 13 million in the United States.
The federal government is releasing its latest survey as the heated debate over reasonable accommodation of minorities, which started in Quebec, spreads across the country, drawing in issues of multiculturalism and immigration. The Conservative government promised in the throne speech to bring in legislation forcing voters to show their faces when casting ballots.
Residents in Quebec, at 70 per cent, were much more likely to mention "reasonable accommodation" than any other region in Canada, where no more than five per cent cited this response when asked to mention aspects of immigration in the news. The Quebec government is currently holding hearings into reasonable accommodation across the province.
In the poll, Canadians identified both the positive and negative aspects of immigration. The pro-immigration aspects were identified as giving a boost to the workforce by bringing in more labourers and highly skilled people while increasing cultural diversity.
"Negative aspects identified include the perception that there is a lack of integration in that immigrants are imposing their culture instead of adapting to ours, the desire of immigrants to have Canada accommodate them, the impact that immigration has on Canadian culture and the notion that immigrants groups tend to stay together and not mix with the rest of society," said the poll report.
The survey also found that despite Canadians' limited understanding of biometrics, three of five support their use once the effectiveness against the fraudulent use of identity documents is explained. "They say that the federal government's main priority... should be maintaining security rather than protecting privacy," said the report.
In fact, 80 per cent of the respondents predicted by the year 2010 that every adult will have at least one biometric ID on file somewhere to verify their identity. Overall, just over half of Canadians said that there are about the right number of immigrants coming to Canada while 27 per cent said there were too many.
The poll report, which was completed in May, involved 1,200 telephone interviews with adult Canadians and carries a margin of error of 2.8 per cent, 19 times out of 20.
It was the first time the government had asked questions about deporting illegal immigrants in Canada. The poll cost about ,000.
Ottawa Citizen



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


That's HILARIOUS.
I do get annoyed at the whole Visa situation. I have two very good friends, one in England, and one in Honduras. Both want to come live in the US. They came here in college through a program called "Camp America". We were all placed in the same residental summer camp. They came every year for 3 yrs. and totally fell in love with the country. Both are teachers and are dying to teach over here. Hello, country with a teacher shortage-come on down. BUT-they are waiting for Visas. Last year one got turned down cause of some stupid error on the paperwork. When my friend from England was here a few days ago I took her to the INS building in Arlington. Line was crazy-and the number of people going about it legally was overwhelming. And that was just in one location. They are all having to wait due to the fact that our country is bursting at the seams.

I am such a softie-I want everybody to have opportunites that I have been given. I know that some people simply don't know the right way to go about it-crossing a border is quick and easy. But it is such a strain on governments. Hello--I want a teacher pay raise!!! Obviously I am a Liberal Democrat :)

No matter what is done---the backlash will be crazy. Just hang on for a wild ride???? hahaha? Did you even understand what that article said?
Yeah, and that SNAKE ASSHOLE (excuse me) Justin King was effing up the visas for everyone!!! Submitting all those fakes and taking up people's space. What a jerk.


Anyway, I know I'd love to let people come over left and right - but you DO have to wonder what would happen to the economy if we did that. At what point would we start running out of jobs. Seriously, just stop and think about it for a second.

I mean really, is there any country with great opportunities that lets any&everyone immigrate whenever they want in whatever volume they want? Probably not.
[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]???? hahaha? Did you even understand what that article said?
[/QUOTE]

Uh yeah, did YOU?
Yes. I even have cultural context, a fact you recently pointed out was very important. [QUOTE=arriscolwell] Yeah, and that SNAKE ASSHOLE (excuse me) Justin King was effing up the visas for everyone!!! Submitting all those fakes and taking up people's space. What a jerk.Anyway, I know I'd love to let people come over left and right - but you DO have to wonder what would happen to the economy if we did that. At what point would we start running out of jobs. Seriously, just stop and think about it for a second.I mean really, is there any country with great opportunities that lets any&everyone immigrate whenever they want in whatever volume they want? Probably not.
[/QUOTE]



Katie, what would happen to our economy if all of them up and left? Answer that?Gimpy is trying single handedly to claim the "most arrogant" title for her own country.The legal americans that come into my work every day, multiple times a day looking for work would have jobs. :) All I know is that my great grandparents came here LEGALLY and so did my husbands grandparents.   You know what I have to say to the illegals---sure come on over to our great country---but do it LEGALLY!!!!
And learn how to speak our language----if I was in your country I would learn yours. I shouldn't have to cater to you and your lack of wanting to learn our language. Show some respect.COME TO ENGLAND, LAND OF THE FREE HOUSING , BENEFITS, FREE MEDICAL AND DENTAL TREATMENT, But only if you dont have a British Passport...............I don't think that Lovie started this post to cause friction. I think she was just pointing out that as well as the war in Iraq costing billions of dollars we have wars at home that are costing billions of dollars. I don't know where my sister found this but she emailed this to me sometime back.
On my dad's side of the family tree my siblings and I are the  "second generation" to be born American.
On my mom's side I go waaaaaaaaaay back! From her side of the family my ethnic heritage includes French, English and Mohawk (Wolf Clan).
Our families, my siblings and myself, have added through marriage and adoption other ethnic backgrounds. We as a family detest the label of being a "multicultural family."

PLAIN AND SIMPLE: WE ARE AMERICANS!!

Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States , people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new  American households and some even changed their names to blend in with  their new home.  

They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture. Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father
fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France and Japan.  None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the
Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France , no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

And here we are in 2008 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life .

My last thought on the topic of immigration is this: Illegal immigrants have broken into my home and expect to take advantage of all I've worked for and more.

Legal immigrants are perfectly acceptable, although I do feel all who immigrate to this country should be expected to learn English. Language is the primary means for people of all ethnic backgrounds to communicate.


watchingwolf2008-02-29 08:08:10

Thank you watchingwolf for posting something that says everything I wanted to say but couldn't find the words for.

I haven't posted any replies to this thread I've just watched as I shook my head in amazement. I understand we all have differences in our political views and beliefs but I can't believe the number of people that are defending this issue.

Watchingwolf:                                                                                                                                  EXACTLY! Thanks Watching Wolf!Watchingwolf. Thank you for that. I absolutely agree and do not, I repeat, do not condone what these illegals are doing. But, you must also give MOST of them a bit of credit for what they DO for our economy. Without them, we would not have on our dinner plates, much of the veggies we do. I am appalled also by the amount of money we spend but this is the problem, not the solution. This is how we could end it all and it would truly kill two birds with one stone. We BUY MEXICO....or better yet as we are very good at invading other nations, just go in and take over. They would automatically become US citizens, no walls or fences to build. All their nations revenue would go into our tax base, they are a huge oil suppier, Bush would be thrilled. Our soldiers would only be a few hours a way from home. They don't have islamic extremism so we would not have to deal with that. What do you all say about this plan??? Good huh? Then, you could all stop griping about how these hard working people rip us off on a daily basis. At least these people have some work ethic. I cannot give that credit to many Americans who also sponge.   It would also be nice if our government would STOP allowing corporations to hire these illegals. They are a big part of the problem but none of you have mentioned that. It takes two to make a disaster such as this one so please, if you are going to gripe, make sure you gripe at everyone involved in this problem, not just the illegals who are sneaking across the border. Also, if you don't like these people, please STOP buying anything they are responsible for making, picking, producing!!Thanks, Lorster, that was my point about what they contribute into the economy and why the original post was rascist economics.

There have also been many puzzling statements on this thread, such as illegal immigrants aren't affected by the rise in cost of living (??????) Don't they have to pay for food, housing and electricity to live too? Many people have spoken from what seems to be the presupposition that illegal immigrants enjoy living in squalid, crowded households with no legal status or protection. Some people seem to think that illegal imigrants sit by the pool all day sucking off the teat of real Americans.
I have a question: Just how easy, or how hard, is it for a Mexican or other second and third world citizens to legally immigrate to the US anyway? No one has proffered the solution of making the illegal immigrants legal.

I can only imagine someone would have to be pretty desperate to cross the border dangerously and illegally to live in a place where they work so hard and get so little for it and probably wouldn't do it that way iif the option of immigrating legally was available. Yes, they have broken the law but I find it hard to believe they do that beacuse they hate America's freedom or whatever catchphrase the illegal immigrants got. How about the people who hire them and the people who consume what they produce? How come they aren't vilified by the people in this discussion. These people grow your food and clean your houses, cut the grass and build your homes. Would it really be so terrible if they were made legal citizens?


In my post in regard to my ethnic heritage I should have included the fact that my paternal grandparents were Germans from Romania. My gramps was 16-years old and my grammy was 1-year old.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There isn't any denying the fact that legal and illegal immigrants contribute to our nation's economy. HOWEVER, illegal immigrants make it difficult, if not impossible, for those wanting to immigrant legally to immigrate to this country. 
Illegal immigrants have made the choice to do so. Yes, their standard of living isn't what ours is in their own country but still they are able to make more than in their country of origin.  In addition, large amounts of their earnings are sent to their families from their country of origin. Also, because of our nation's generosity and lax enforcement of our laws they qualify for every kind of social assistance available. While we have far too many families in this country where one or both parents are holding down more than one job. For too many this is a matter of necessity.
Are we being taken advantage of. YES And what do we hear from those controlling the job markets? Americans don't want to work and are lazy!  Not So. The people of our country are hard-working, generous and creative.   Do we get  "free health and dental care"; free schooling, etc. No way!!!  Also, since it's a fact a large percentage of illegal immigrants  are paid "cash-under the table" they don't pay into Social Security? However, they can and do collect Social Security.  Since a large percentage of illegal immigrants are paid "cash-under the table" they are collecting benefits without paying taxes. Thus they aren't paying for our commitments around the world.
I could go on and on and on. But you all get the picture - right?


Whatchingwolf. You make some good points but....How much of 6 bucks an hour is really left over to send back to Mexico? These people are paying the same rent etc as the rest of us. I know 6 an hour is 48 a day and 240 a week. How far does that go? Think about these numbers. Add a buck an hour to these figures and what do you have? Poverty, no matter which way you add it up. In reality, what goes back to Mexico does not exceed the positive impact to our GNP. They also pay into our tax base as well as SS and will never recover it unless they become legalized. Katie. What I hope is all these Mexicans get up tomorrow morning and march back across the border. Then you will have to get off your ass at the work computer and make some beds and clean some toilets.First of all, we don't have mexicans working here. We're finally to where all of our foreign workers are legal, and I adore them actually. They are the sweetest people. At least at my hotel. [QUOTE=lorster]Whatchingwolf. You make some good points but....How much of 6 bucks an hour is really left over to send back to Mexico? These people are paying the same rent etc as the rest of us. I know 6 an hour is 48 a day and 240 a week. How far does that go? Think about these numbers. Add a buck an hour to these figures and what do you have? Poverty, no matter which way you add it up. In reality, what goes back to Mexico does not exceed the positive impact to our GNP. They also pay into our tax base as well as SS and will never recover it unless they become legalized. [/QUOTE] Lorster: Social services, rent assistance, fuel assistance, other utility assistance if they need it. If money wasn't being sent back to their families in other countries we wouldn't be picking up the tab. If Mexicans are willing to break into our Country and leach off the law abiding tax payers, they don't get to complain about poverty.  I wonder if we scaled down a bit and supposed that someone broke into Lorsters home, ate her food, got a job but didn't contribute to her household expenses, demanded that she educate his children, provide them medical care out of her pocket, insisted that she and everyone in her household learn his/her language because he didn't want to learn Lorsters, would she be as welcoming??  Would she agree when her neighbors got all over her because she wasn't doing enough?  If yes, why not invite a couple illegals to stay???I live in a town with a high illegal immigrant population.  Last year there was over million sent from folks in our town down to the two or three towns in Mexico where most of these folks are from... but most of their children take free breakfast and lunch at school (free to low-income people).  Damn near everyone in town has been hit at least once by an illegal immigrant with no valid driver's license or vehicle insurance.  We have massive overcrowding issues. The 2-bedroom, 1-bathroom house next door to me has 14 people living in it... they sleep on mattresses on the basement floor.  There are 8 children going to school from that one house alone.  Our school district is overflowing.  We have big gang problems here, and many of the gang members are illegal immigrants from Mexico.  One of our hospitals went broke and closed a couple years ago.  The same people who supposedly do the jobs we won't do, at a price we won't take... are heavily subsidized by free healthcare (the county has an immigration don't ask-don't tell policy), free meals at school, and lack of car insurance (which bumps up everyone else's rates, effectively subsidizing the driving habits of those not here legally).

Most of my Hispanic friends want the border locked down NOW and want employers heavily fined for hiring illegal immigrants.  Many illegal immigrants will self-deport; we can then decide what to do about the rest of them.

I am sick of people acting like the illegal immigrants are innocent martyrs.
Linncn, I think most immigrants doing those things are also doing all the housework and providing the childcare in that house, and it's a deal made with the legal American. If they were actually pillaging like you seem to think that would be an actual invasion, now, wouldn't it? Then you could shoot them. But that's not what's actually happening so you can't.

Do you not have sales and property tax? Every time an illegal immigrant pays rent or buys something they are paying tax. If they were made legal by the governement they would also then be paying income tax.

WatchingWolf, I understand most of your post except I don't understand how people coming illegally make it hard or impossible for people to come legally. What are the criteria for legal immigration? To say your ancestors came legally isn't a fair analogy since back then they let EVERYONE in. The only difference between what your ancestors did and what these modern immigrants do is there's some people already set up saying "we got here first and there's not enough for you too".

Anyway, as many of you have astutely pointed out it's not my problem, but it burns my crank to see a bunch of rascist claptrap like the original post and many subsequent opinions expressed. Rascism is a global problem and that's why I got involved in this thread. It's true there are a lot of nuances, cultural and legal issues around it I probably don't know.

But I am sure that no one is just TAKING from the economy without adding something INTO it, however unbalanced, so that original post was incredibly one sided and offensive to me.



"Most of my Hispanic friends want the border locked down NOW and want employers heavily fined for hiring illegal immigrants."

Going after the employers makes more sense to me. If people weren't hiring them they wouldn't come. But be prepared for prices to go up!
Gimpy, you aren't from here are you?  You can talk about Canada's thousands of illegals and how you ove them all you want but please don't act like you know about our millions and millions and millions.  Did you bother to read Jas's post?  Or did you just decide it isn't true and ignore it? [QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]
"Most of my Hispanic friends want the border locked down NOW and want employers heavily fined for hiring illegal immigrants."

Going after the employers makes more sense to me. If people weren't hiring them they wouldn't come. But be prepared for prices to go up!
[/QUOTE]

I'm not too worried about it.  High school and college kids in my town cannot find jobs, as all the low-level jobs are taken by illegal immigrants.  And besides, even if some prices go up, other costs will go down.  It's a trade I'm willing to make.


Offensive to YOU? You want to know what I find offensive?  Being called a racist because I think this country needs to do something about illegal immigration. I wish you guys would take your belief that you can't talk or have an opinion about somethingnot within you own man-made boarders and apply it to yourselves, Linncn, when you talk about how IRAQ NEEDS DEMOCRACY or how CANADIAN HEALTHCARE SUCKS. This is the kind of thing that makes me point out what a hippocrate you are.

I personally believe that people should be able to debate and have opinions on whatever they want, so I am not a hippocrate by discussing your illegal immigration problem, (a topic I didn't start on this international board) but since you obviously do not share that belief I hope in the future you parctice what you preach and keep your opinions out of the rest of the world!
(That goes for you too, Blessed)
Gimpy-a-gogo2008-02-29 16:00:07Jas, we do need to do something...bend over an learn spanish I would be very happy to see business owners be heavily fined or even do jail time for giving illegals jobs.  They're just as guilty. JR, my whole point from the beginning of this thread was that illegal immigrants DO contribute to the economy, not just take, and I said SOME of the comments are rascist, as was the original post. It's obvious you have a problem with illegal immigration but having people spewing that kind of rascist propoganda serves no one. (That doesn't mean I think you're a rascist--it means some of the comments on this thread are rascist. Maybe you didn't make any of those comments).

I have never proffered any kind of opinion on whether it's a problem or not, or if they should be made to stay or go, or if they are victims or perpertrators. I only said that they do contribute to the economy and that if they were made legal it would solve the not paying taxes issue.

People on this forum are always putting opinbions in my mouth and it's tiresome. Just because I don't agree with everything said doesn't mean I believe the exact opposite.
Gimpy-a-gogo2008-02-29 16:04:59

What I've said about Canadian health care is what I've been told BY CANADIANS who come across the border to get healthcare.  I've told you that many many times.  Your problem is with your countymen who hate your system, not me.  That doesn't make me a hypocrite Gimpy.  But you will say that forever because it suits you.

Linncn2008-02-29 16:07:30So Linncn, you think I've never talked to an American or read an American newspaper or heard an American talk about immigration? I also happen to have seen several movies about it made by Americans. According to you I am therefore eleigible to discuss it all I want.

[QUOTE=Linncn]Jas, we do need to do something...bend over an learn spanish Jas, of course I'm not saying the idea of learning a foreign language is a bad idea.  It's a good idea.  I strongly believe that if someone chooses to make any country their home, or even if they are only visiting, they should learn that country's language.  Not the other way around.All right then Gimpy.  Go for it.  Talk away. :) [QUOTE=Linncn]Jas, of course I'm not saying the idea of learning a foreign language is a bad idea.  It's a good idea.  I strongly believe that if someone chooses to make any country their home, or even if they are only visiting, they should learn that country's language.  Not the other way around.[/QUOTE]

I know.Damn. I'd been trying to figure out for 2 days now who the hell "JR" was that Gimpy kept talking to.