Oh Well | Arthritis Information

 

I went into the interview, and learned that it was for a cashier position. (I was hoping it might be for one of the other things I checked off, like the phone center, which would be primarily a "sit down" job.)  I explained that I have arthritis in my hips and spine which make walking and standing difficult.   My condition is very, very evident as I have a severe limp.   I asked if accommodations could be made, giving me a stool or chair to sit on when I did not have any customers.  Just being able to sit in between checking people out would really make a big difference.  The HR person said she didn't think it would be a problem, but she would check with the Store Manager.

 

Next step, they call and offer me a position, saying that they would like to hire me as a part-time cashier.  She spoke with the Store Manager, and he said they have tried using stools before and it didn't really work out.  So they would try to be aware of my concerns and take that into account with scheduling breaks and shifts.  So I reluctantly accepted the position, figuring I have to at least try.  But I wasn't feeling very confident that I would be able to do it.

 

So Friday and Saturday I had 8 hour orientation days.  They gave us availability forms to fill out, for what hours we would be available to work.  Okay, I figured this is part-time work, and I put down 6 am to 2:30 pm.  I know I will have to work weekends, but that's okay if I have the evening free to spend with my family, and during the week I want to be home when my son comes home from high school.

 

Well after that I started getting subtle messages and comments that they weren't pleased with what I put down for availability.  They came in and said if you can open up your availability you will get more hours - probably 40 hours.  But they made it clear that I would still be considered a part-time person (is that legal?).  They want someone they can use like a full-timer, but not give full time benefits to I think. 

 

I told them, no, I want to see how I do first, if I can handle it, before taking on more hours.  I was up front and honest about my condition from the start.  Now I can tell they are regretting hiring me, and I haven't even tried cashiering yet!  I'm still going through the week long training programs on the computer! 

 

Then they gave me my schedule and I have six hour shifts, with just one 15 minute break.  I know physically, I just won't be able to do it.  Just one hour of grocery shopping without sitting kills me.  And THEY are upset because they want to be able to schedule me for eight hours. 

 

Now I don't want the job, because I feel that I'm always going to be that person they have to schedule around that they resent.  And I know they want out, but are probably wondering how to do it legally.  So I am pondering what to do - should I go ahead and call them and say I quit, or should I make they squirm for awhile?  I could keep getting paid for the training period, (we really need the money) but I would feel dishonest.  I know how expensive it is for an employer to train people.  But they hired me - limp and all.

 

Unless you are 'certified' disabled, I'm not sure that holding them to that act would matter - so I wouldn't bring that up, unless you know for sure what it means, technically, legally. 

 

I think a lot of retailers bring people in without being up front about the hours - because nobody really wants to work the hours they need!  You are not the first person they have hired who doesn't want to work the hours they need, trust me.

 

If you really need a job, I'd say give it a little longer and see how it goes.  Keep reminding them of all the things you told them before they offered you the job -  it sounds like you did not misrepresent anything.  Good luck!  I'd be broke working in a home improvement store this time of year - the garden center......   

 

 If you cannot do the job and feel like they are pushing you out, then I would say to quit.   I am really not any good at these things.

 

THey do have to accommodate you under the ADA....so you have every right to a stool or fewer hours. I am sure there are others out there tha have better and more info than me.

 

Will you get a discount?

 

The standing would be hard to do that is for sure. I hopw you get it all figured out.

 

They do the same thing with the people at wal-mart. They have a stool to sit on and they get up when someone hits a snag.

 

That is all I got No advice...just wanted to wish u luck on this. Me too, I can't offer any advice, but just want to send you my best luck for finding the best answer for you. I wonder if you'd have a better chance being accomodated by a smaller "mom & pop" type place than a national chain.  Even the head of your store isn't the head of your store.  And the guy making the call is someone who you will probably never lay eyes on.  You'll be just a name and therefore get less compassion. I want to be wanted as an employee for who I am, disabilities and all,  not someone who they HAVE to deal with because they made a mistake when they hired me!

 

I can certainly understand that. Everyone wants that. I wouldn;t look at it as someone they have to deal with because they made a mistake....I doubt if it is that way at all. They offered the job to you for a reason, they spoke to you for a reason. They see something in you that is of value and representative of and for  their company.

 

(Me an dcash registers are a disaster.....how are you doing with the training?)

 

And don;t worry about the chitter chatter of the others there! They are not you!

jodejjr2008-03-25 14:42:08Thanks for the best wishes.  I think I will just call and let them and me off the hook.  It just isn't a good match.  I'll keep looking. . . And I know how hard jobs are to find....so this has got to be difficult!One more post, Karen and you will be at 3000 posts!Hah - now I've done it - 3001[QUOTE=Hillhoney] [/QUOTE] Well welcome to the "looking for a job club" jodejjr2008-03-25 14:59:48They have to accomadate you,if they hire you, that is the law.  They knew you had limitations and if they want you as an employee by law they have to help make it comfortable for you to be able to do the work.  Do not back down because then they will do the same thing to the  next disabled person and so on and so forth.  There are special chairs that can be used by cashiers who have disabilities and  some stores have even lowered a regiser or two for a cashier in a wheel chair to ring up a customer.  Now on the hours what it is that alot of people don't know a large retail company, and several others, will run you close to 40 hrs a week but you are still considered part time.  They will only do it for so many weeks then they drop your hours down for a month or so then pick them up again .  As long as they do this and don't let you go for more then let's say 4 months like this then they don't have to give you full time benefits... Karen I know it is not fair how they are not treating you but don't let them get away with it.  xoxoxox  meme [QUOTE=arriscolwell] And I know you have the personality to make a change. [QUOTE] That'd if given the time/energy/motivation you'd whip their middle-management asses into shape? *grin* I agree You can do it!!!  Personally I wouldn't want to force someone to hire me.  I'd rather find a job where I'm welcome.  Besides, it's not like anyone "owes" me a job.  I don't  really think it's right that the government can come in and tell you who you have to hire.Well, I do really appreciate your vote of confidence, I just don't know if I want to fight that hard for this job.  If it were a job I felt strongly about wanting, one that excited me and I was sure I could do well, it would be another story.  I didn't say anything about keeping the job, or even making you hire them. More like, just making them very aware that they don't have a good policy in place.

It may just be poor communication between HR and the departments, or they may have never ACTUALLY encountered someone with needs.

I guess I'm just playing Devils Advocate?
arriscolwell2008-03-25 20:37:40I agree with Katie they hired you knowig your restrcitions and they said it was no problem now they are saying problem you can't do that.  And Lin you may not like it but there is government law saying you can not discrimminate against the disabled and all places of work is suppose to be barrier free.Well, I will certainly express my opinions on the subject when I resign.  I do think there are things that should have been handled differently, for both parties sake.  I probably shouldn't have accepted the position when she said that the manager vetoed the accommodation of a chair, but I also didn't know that they were expecting 8 hour days for a part-time position when I thought I should at least give it a try.Karen I'm not saying you can't simply walk away. You can. You absolutely can, there's nothing wrong with it at all.

I'm poking at you cause I know you have a loud voice when it's needed. So I'm gonna poke atcha to see if I can get you to say something to them. Because it's my personal belief that someone should. And you know I think you're just that someone. LoL

But you really don't have to. You just know me, I couldn't not say anything. *hugs* You do what you feel is right and what you're comfortable with. I did all the provoking I needed to. Teehee
I agree with Katie it is your decision just wanted you to know I am in your corner, if anyone picks on you.  xoxoxoxo meme

I know there are a jobs out there that I can do, and do well.  This one, I don't feel confident about at all.  I know my body, and standing without being able to sit at all won't work for me, but I felt guilty turning down a job, when I finally had an offer of one.

My OA is not going to get better over time; there is no treatment to stop it's progress, and I have no chance of remission.  My choices are pretty limited right now.  I'm not one to give in and give up, but I also have to be realistic.

Understood!!


On that note, have you checked out any hotels? *grin* You can sit and check people in........................ Meme, I realize that.  That's why I said I don't agree with it.  :)What if it were a law protecting a disabled veteran?Protecting? From what?From not being given a fair opportunity at employment.I do have to say that I came back to this thread to revise what I siad.  Sometimes unfortunately the government does have to step in to make people do the right thing.  I'm thinking of segregation.  And if you say the government should step in and regulate one thing, why not the next?  I really just hate the government having that kind of power over one's personal life.  It seems to me that if someone takes their own money and ideas and makes a business with it, they should be able to hire and serve who ever they want to. But then you're letting people do whatever they want with no rules? I mean, essentially that's what you're saying. That's why we have laws, because people would be unfair.

I mean.....the government is there for a reason, there HAVE to be rules, standards, regulations.

Without it, you have anarchy. Sounds extreme, but that's the definition.
But Karen, I think you're using the military as an example because you know I have sons that serve.  So to answer the real question, no. I would not want special things for my loved ones that I would not want for yours.  Please remember that being handicapped is likely in my own future with this disease.I neve said their should be no laws.  Thats is a HUGE step from saying business owners should be able to hire who they want.So if you let all business owners hire who ever they want, would that really be fair?


Link, have you EVER in your life been discriminated against? I'm just curious, because it seems that maybe you have the views that you do because you've never been "on the other side" so to speak?
Well no one was forced to hire me.  I competed and was hired based upon my pre-employment tests, interviews, drug testing, etc.  I told them from the start what my situation was, hid nothing.  There was no governmental agency breathing down their backs when they chose me.  But the law does state that they are supposed to make "reasonable accommodations" for individuals with disabilities.  Do you think that is an unreasonable law?Well, I am going to put my two cents worth in here...because Karen you have a lot to offer any employer regardless of your OA.

Is it worth just giving up without even trying to negotiate??? You could pick someone on the management team...the person you feel the most connection with and try and negotiate something that would work for both of you. You know what your limits are, you know you can do it if...you have a chair or required breaks. You know what would work and what wouldn't.

Even if you decide just to give this one a miss...write down what you need and how you can work on paper...writing things down can be really powerful...it draws them to us...so if you write down what you need in a job, one might just turn up with those requirements. Besides if you write it down, then you will know clearly what you are looking for and you can convey that to prospective employers.

Whatever you decide to do...DON'T GIVE UP...I just think you have a lot to offer and being out there in the workforce would be good for you psychologically also.

Well done, Karen for getting out there and trying...not just letting your arthritis beat you into a corner where you have no life.
Thanks Cordy.

All I'm saying Katie is that if I decide to open a restaurant and don't want to hire any red haired waitresses, I don't think it's the governments place to stick their long arm in and make me do it.   Even though that would really crappy of me,  it's still my business.

And another thing...I am not an advocate of discrimmination.  I think it would be the greatest if Karens new boss did whatever he could to make working for him a reasonable venture for Karen.  I think that human being to human being, yeah we do owe each other that kindness.  It's just that I think it's a choice that is often best left to the individual.Hi, just thought about giving some advice as well. First off, I am sorry about not being able to find a job. But lady, let me tell you; I have been there many times looking for one and have always come to find some crappy job that was never good but I always took cause I needed it. So I sympathize with you on this account. Secondly, while I do not have the hip problems (yet) that you speak of I was always able to explain to my employers when I had problems with my arthritis. Funny enough, I never said anything to them in the beginning, only when it would become a problem. Without even having to say I am certifiably disabled, all of my employers would help out with requests. I believe that just eluding the idea that you are covered has some effect on them; because when you come down to it, you do NOT want to be the manager who gets a lawsuit on your hands because then you are the manager without a job and blacklisted. Third, I know someone said that you are just a person and just a number to employer, sadly it is very true. All of my jobs have been with big companies (Subway, Panera, Walgreens) and we are all just a body there to work the hours they need us to. If you don't want to fight them and think it is fruitless to even be trained, then I would say leave. But above all, do NOT worry about them spending money on training you. I think you should give it a shot, since you mentioned you could use the money and all. Give it a shot, talk to somebody, and definitely put things in writing if needed. But all while you are doing this, try to look for another job. There is a possibility that you could find a job with another company that is willing to treat you right. I am sorry if this all seems so jumbled, I am just trying to say as much as I can to help you out.Wow Karen I cant believe they knew your limitations but employed you and refused you a chair, that is really bad. I am appalled. Maybe being in a different country i see things differently , you may have a disability but you are still a human and you want to work. No one asks for a disability but what do we do if we have one. Stay at home and give up on life completely. In the UK we have rules and laws within the workplace. All places of employment by law have to adapt their premises to accomodate disabled employees, ramps, chairs, special equipment. Its about trying to give disabled people their independence and intergrating them back into the workplace, just cause our bodies are giving us problems, our minds are as good as anyone elses. Its about human rights. Sorry to be back on here Karen, but I did some research for you...for all of us, since probably a majority of us will have this problem. I have copy and pasted parts of the website below that are the specific to your situation. So here you go:

Definition of "Disability"
The ADA defines the term "disability" as a physical or mental impairment which substantially limits at least one major life activity of an individual. Generally, a major life activity is any function that an average individual canperform with little or no trouble, such as caring for oneself, hearing, lifting, seeing, speaking, talking, walking, and working. Examples of "disabilities" are: alcoholism, arthritis, cancer, cerebral palsy, cystic fibrosis, hearing impairment, heart disease, high blood pressure, mental retardation, multiple sclerosis, speech impairment, and visual impairment. Additionally, a "disability" may result from a history of, or a perception as having, a physical or mental impairment which substantially limits a major life activity. In Bragdon v. Abbott, (1998), the United States Supreme Court held that infection with the HIV virus constitutes a "disability," even if the symptomatic stage has not yet been reached. Absent unusual circumstances, pregnancy and related medical conditions are not regarded as "disabilities." Also excluded are homosexuality, bisexuality, transvestism, compulsive gambling, and kleptomania.
The key is that the condition or disease must limit an individual's major life activity. It is therefore possible that two people with the same conditionor disease may be treated differently under the ADA. By way of example, arthritis in a particular individual may result in the limitation of mobility, while arthritis in another individual may manifest itself in only occasional stiffness and soreness. The individual in the first example would be "disabled"since the major life activity of walking had been substantially limited. However, the other individual would not be "disabled" inasmuch as there had not been a substantial limitation on a major life activity.

Just in case you or anyone else is not understanding this, it basically means that since you are limited in your WALKING AND SITTING, this is considered a major life activity and also severely prohibits you from doing your job w/out the simple benefit of a chair. Something they already have AND COSTS THEM NOTHING!!!

I always envision myself fighting some great battle like this and again I amnot saying whether or not you should, but if you really need the money and really need this job and all they need to do is give you a chair then you really need to bring this to their attention. LIke I said, I have been in the big companies before. When I told my manager from Walgreens about my problems he offered me a chair if needed. At that time I worked in the Photo Department and was a cashier. So if they are telling you that you wouldn't be able to perform the job without the chair, then you need to say to them BULLsh*t! Sorry, as you can tell I am getting frustrated. Here is more information.

Employment
A person is protected under the ADA if he/she is a "qualified individual witha disability. However, it does refer to a disabled individual who, with or without accommodation, is able to perform the essential functions of the job. For instance, a person with a visual impairment in one eye would be a"qualified individual with a disability" if he/she is still able to handle the requisite work duties. Conversely, that person would not be a "qualified individual with a disability" if the visual impairment prevents him/her from handling his/her essential job tasks. The person in the first example would fall within the parameters of the ADA while the person in the second example would not.
Prohibited discrimination includes, but is not limited to, the following conduct by an employer: (4)failing to reasonably accommodate an individual with a disability. The ban against discrimination also applies to medical inquiries and examinations. In this regard, an employer is precluded from asking a job applicant asto whether he/she has a disability and from inquiring into the nature and severity of the disability. The employer is obligated to make reasonable accommodations with respect to the mental or physical limitations of a "qualified individual with a disability." For example, an employer may provide such a person with a parking space that is in close proximity to the work premises, reassign the person to a vacant position, or modify his/her work schedule. A request for an unreasonable accommodation need not be fulfilled. Moreover, an employer is exempted from the duty of reasonable accommodation if such accommodation would result in an undue hardship, in terms of a significant difficulty or expense. For instance,an employer need not shift the lion's share of the disabled individual's duties to other employees. Additionally, an employer would not be required to grant a disabled individual an indefinite leave of absence, with full compensation and benefits, unless the employer also has a policy of granting such leaves to other employees. The issues of whether a requested accommodation is reasonable and whether the employer would suffer an undue hardship are to be determined by considering the totality of underlying circumstances of each particular situation.

This all comes from http://law.jrank.org/pages/12494/Rights-Disabled.htmlIf you haven't already quit the job, I'd like to offer my humble opinion about staying on for the training.  You were very honest and up-front with them from the beginning.  They hired you based on complete knowledge of your situation and treated you unfairly.  If it helps to keep the training job for a while and then quit, do it.  You owe them nothing.  Since they didn't have to offer you a job but did knowing you have limitations requires them to make the accommodation of offering you a chair.  As for the hours it's up to the prospective employee to find out what they are.  The prospective employee's perspective of part-time usually differs from that of an employer.

There's also something to be said for being out there in the workforce. It provides an opportunity to quite possibly hear of other available job positions within the company that you could qualify for even with a disability, provides the chance of hearing of other positions via customers and the fact your working even with a disability could quite possibly impress another prospective employer or even the higher ups of a company your working for.
okkkkk, I'm going to put my 2 cents in. Okay after re-reading I've figured out whats REALLY the issue that's bugging me about all of this.

It's a place, who knew what they were getting into. They essentially promised something they didn't deliver on. In this case, it's as simple as a chair. Which just seems so dumb.

So what really gets me, is this place is telling people "sure, no problem we can hire you we can work around it, it'll work for all of us" Then they put you on the pay roll and go "nevermind, now you're ours and you'll do what WE say"

So that's really what's under my skin about it. Ya know?
Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions.  I will take it all into consideration as I decide what I'm going to do.  I am scheduled to go in tomorrow at 8 am for more training.  Hillhoney2008-03-26 09:42:04I have to add, I need a chair at work and reasonable breaks. I get them, so it's not an issue.

But if I were to take another job at another hotel, and was promised a chair and then was told no - would I raise hell? Yes. Because with a few breaks (5 minutes TOPS) and a chair to rest in periodically, I am STILL *the* most efficient person at that front desk. Sounds cocky, but I just had this talk with my GM, who was the one who pointed it out to me.

So I DO have an issue with someone saying "sure, your disability is no problem, come work for us" and then they turn around and yank the rug from underneath you. I'm not speaking for Karen anymore here, I'm just saying, what if it was someone who was able to do *everything* anyone else could, given that there was a chair available to rest in? (like me) I think that would be wrong.
Katie, that is partially true, but they did tell me "No" to the chair before I accepted the position.  So it is my fault for saying yes knowing that, but I still resent the fact that they said they would take my condition into consideration when making up the schedules, and clearly they are not.I know they said no Karen, thats why I was throwing out there how things are for me.

It's just ya know.............today its them "just" being inconsiderate, but what is it tomorrow? This is how things start "oh look, we got away with saying no to her.....now I bet we can say no to this person too"

"and this person"

etc etc.
I agree Katie, and it shows an ignorance and insensitivity that I will glady point out to them.  Okay, I'll hush now. LoL Thanks for listening though *grin* Hey,

I'm gonna throw my .02 in just for the heck of it.  To me, and this is strictly my opinion, it sounds like a miscommunication and some assumptions going on.

They didn't say they regretted hiring Karen, she is getting the feeling they are.  There is a difference. 

Also, Karen accepted the job knowing they couldn't put a chair behind the cash register.  Why can't they?  Instead of assuming they are discriminating against her, maybe it is because there isn't room, it isn't safe, or maybe they are discriminating against her. 

I get tired of hearing people talk about being discriminated against.  That may be what happened here, but then again, it may not.  I agree with Linn, why should the government tell us who to hire?  Do we know for a fact that the same thing wouldn't have happened to a young, seemingly healthy individual at this place?

OK, I'm sure this isn't going to be well received and I'm not pointing the finger at anyone.  I hope it works out for you Karen, and this added stress can't be good for you.

One more thing....I would urge you to quit instead of "using the training" because that is the wrong thing to do.  This whole 6 pages is about what is right and wrong, but yet some people are telling you to stay on just for the training when you know you are going to leave.  That is just the wrong thing to do and no one wants that done to them.

PhatsHillhoney: When you accepted the position you knew they wouldn't give you a chair but would work with you in scheduling because of your arthritis? Sounds as though they kept up their part of the agreement.  So am wondering why you are resentful now?

However, you did state there were others who were allowed to use a chair. Your position in the company shouldn't allow the privilege of a chair your job duties require you be seated most of the time.  Examples: Secretary - Office Manager
I thought of another place to look for a job that might be good fit!  Peak time teller at a bank, if your hands are not an issue.  They staff up for lunch time rush, so it is only a couple of hours and I'm sure you could sit.  Off for bank holidays and weekends, great for moms.  Probably doesn't hurt, financially, to learn the best banking/interest, etc. deals around, too. thats a great idea Suzanne!  A teller at a bank, a secretary/whatever its called when your the first person they see when they come into the store, not retail....ummm yea hopefully someone again knows what Im trying to get at...but yea... try talking to your manager and see if there are some compromises that you are able to agree on and find out WHY you arent allowed to have a stool, even if you would just use it in between customers.  When I was working at a convience store the end of 06/begining of 07 my boss knew I wanted to quit since it was getting to hard on me physically...He said that I was able to use a chair to sit and rest when I did not have customers and from my understanding that was a BIG "nono" the chair thing *he was a franchisee so didnt *have* to do every rule the corporate stores had to do but still dont think it was something corporate would have liked* What about something working from home?Thanks again guys.

Karen another position you might want to look into is to be a people greeter at Wally World, they allow chairs for the people up there when needed and they don't make you stand for 8 hours at a time.. They are very good at giving breaks and if you work six hours you can ask for a 1/2 hr lunch so you can sit and rest.. Meijers does the same and I am sure there are several other places like this too.  These positions are usaually given to people with disabilities.  They also need a person to man phones at these stores basically you answer the phone do pages and help people to get into the fitting rooms because this is where ther phones are located.  Hope that helps.

meme2008-03-26 12:29:56What about ticket counter at a local theatre? You already thought about that one didn't you. LoLHow about Airline Pilot?  They're always sitting down. [QUOTE=Linncn]How about Airline Pilot?  They're always sitting down.[/QUOTE]

I've heard that career described as 30 years of boredom, punctuated by infrequent moments of sheer terror.Wow, nice Link.  That's what I thought until I read Jas' post.  Maybe a movie theater is better.  Free movie tickets anyway!  :)Uh........ Really???  Gosh darn Katie, you must be jokin!  Next yer gonna be sayin the same about dokterin!Yeah I'm not in the mood. Really???  Gosh darn Katie, you must be jokin!  Next yer gonna be sayin the same about dokterin!