Hi guys, I have OA, RA, and osteoporosis and DDD, I think pain is pain is pain! I don't think anyone means to belittle anyone elses pain, everybody has their own pain threshold and remember that a lot of things can make our pain feel worse. My mum had osteoarthritis in her knee and she was in terrible pain, but used to tell me, that she shouldn't complain considering what I go through, well I felt, maybe hers is worse than mine who knows, so I think we all need support and understanding whatever the cause of our pain. What about the poor people that have phantom limb pain after amputations, they must get the strangest looks and comments when their limb isn't even there anymore.!!! We all have our bad days and I don't know about anyone else but I stuff things up by articulating incorrectly due to my brain fog and I am sure people must think I am nasty or dopey with some of the things I say, and I would never set out to upset anyone for no reason. God Bless all of you and I will keep praying for all those that have mentioned they need our prayers. Hugs Janie.
Lately I have such trouble articulating, I knew I wasn't going to explain myself properly.
To Karen & MAB52- I said right up front I meant no disrespect to someone suffering with OA and was sure that your pain is equal to someone with RA. However RA is a more debilitating, dangerous disease. No I wouldn't want OA either but if I had my choice between the two I would pick OA that doesn't come with the rest of the baggage.
This person is not a friend and I am not in a competition of who has the worst disease or pain. This is someone I work with. I do not go around discussing my RA. I do not mention that I have pain today or I am tired or wow this brain fog is really getting to me. That's what I come here for. I don't bend people's ears telling them how 50% of people with RA are disabled to the point that they can no longer work or that my hands may become twisted & deformed or I'm more likely to have a heart attack or my medicine can cause lymphoma. First of all- I try to live positively- I'm feeling good right now and maybe I'll be one of the people who doesn't have any of these things happen to them! This person never shuts up and what they say is false.
I'm not looking for anyone at work to give me sympathy or emotional support. I also do not want this person identifying with me when the only thing in common with OA and RA is pain and the word "arthritis". I think by making people think that our conditions are one and the same this could be detrimental to me should I ever need reduced hours, time off or special conditions due to the sickness my RA may cause.
To ice the cake-let me spell it out. This person has always annoyed me with their constant prattle about themselves. Most of their afflications are caused by their own neglect of treating their body with healthy respect. When given instruction on what needs to be done to correct the condition they ignore it. I have no use or patience for people who do not want to help themselves but want to tell you how bad they feel or when they act like a victim.
Now this latest thing has hit a raw nerve. To be lumped with this person feels offensive. I have been internally trying to come to terms with something I cannot control. I have been having some depression because I was told I was in a medicine induced remission but as I taper off the prednisone I am not feeling so well anymore and I'm scared it's coming to an end. This is all new for me I've only been dx since Nov. 07.
So I resent that I do this quietly and I have to listen to their mouth.
I hope I can come here for validation and emotional support. I do not go for this with friends, family or co workers.
Also to Karen-
If you have ever read my posts in response to people here I think you would know me as a different person than you have portrayed me as. I wish you worked with this person you are defending against me on a daily basis .
I understand your point, wanttobe, ... I don't even want to discuss any of this with co-workers... I don't want to be considered "poor babs" I can hold my own and do not want this to be a definition of me... But there are those who take their illness or discomfort and it becomes them and it's all they can discuss. I really feel sorry for them. I won't let RA define me... though it tries hard to confine me.
I feel sad for your co-worker who has to talk about it all the time. She is limiting herself and her life by dwelling on this OA issue.
I wouldn't be concerned.. Just tune her out. And go on living your life without the confines of dwelling on your medical issues.. I have both as well. RA first....then OA; and frankly I don't know which is which pain wise.
The thing with OA is that it doesn't get any better. RA can go long stretches in a remission state or a state where activity is slow/low. Folks with RA if they are lucky can have stretches of time where they feel close to normal. OA isn't like that.
A person with OA in their knees will likely end up with a knee replacement. (Hip; whatever) That's a scary thought for someone who wasn't expecting that sort of dx'ed. I don't know your co-worker or what she's doing that annoys you.....but her problems are just as important to her as yours are to you. I'm sure it hasn't even occurred to her that you're sicker than her.....or vise versa.
All that being said I'd rather have gotten the OA dx verses the RA dx. Granted you can have stretches in time where things are pretty good....I've been lucky enough to have that many times over the years. RA is a disease that affects far more than just the joints and can not only be painful but life threating as well. The medications we risk using to have a normal life could also change our lives for the worst in the blink of an eye. I think with OA you know what to expect.....with RA you have no idea.
Nevermind
I guess I just can't seem to clearly speak my heart.
I'll be my own support system like I always am.
Not that you really know me personally but the support this blow hard is getting really irks me.
Again it's not me wanting to be sicker or in more pain...maybe the other way around
It's always "something" with this person. The "something" is always brought on by their own neglect of their health. They don't follow the instructions they are given to make themselves well. They completely blow everything out of proportion . They thrive on other people saying poor poor you. I don't buy into it and it usually doesn't bother me but saying we are the same- that does.
I guess I'll still have someone who will chime in here and say you should pray for this person because they are mentally disturbed. You should have pity on them.
Some people are just all about themselves. I have a lot of compassion & understanding but not for people like this.
I just needed someone to say- it's OK wannabe tell them to go scratch their ass.
I didn't want my response to further a competition of RA versus OA and which is worse. There is no competition - RA is a horrible disease that attacks young and old, and it's serious complications can be life threatening. I feel nothing but compassion and concern - and admiration for the people here that are fighting this battle and coping daily with the ravages of RA.
I also understand that your coworker may be an insensitive pain in the butt whiner, whom you get tired of hearing. You didn't share that in your first post. We've all met people like that and I can certainly sympathize.
One of the things I have learned in my time here is that there is a great deal of misunderstanding about RA and auto-immune diseases in general. I'm guessing most RA patients here (unless you had someone in your family with the disease) knew very little about RA until they were diagnosed. Sadly, it isn't a disease that has caught the media's attention, and the world doesn't know much about the severity of the disease.
But I think there is some of the same lack of information about OA. Like RA, there is a lot people don't know about OA. Folks think it is something that make old folks stiff and sore, and can be treated with a couple of Aleve each day, as we see on the commercials.
I am cutting a pasting a posting from the OA section of this forum that blows that out of the water:
scotgirl
Newbie
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hello, My name is Ann, I am 36, married with 3 beautiful boys and I have advanced OA. I developed it through hypophosphateamic rickets and it's regular ortho surgery. I had both hips replaced by age 30, my left knee at 32 and currently all my other joints are painful and under review. I only take anti inflammatories with mild painkillers at present, I have babies at home so narcotics are not an option. I find the pain is manageable, it's the stiffness I can't live with. I have lost so much movement over the last 10 years and It worries me so much. I find I can't walk without my baby's pram. My spine is under investigation at the moment and there is so few things I can do for myself. I feel trapped in this stiff, painful body. It frightens me how quickly it advanced, what can I expect of the next 10 years? Is there anyone out there who has an answer to the further development of this stiffness? Im too young to just sit and let this take me over! | |
I was once told by a friend with RA, that "for you, to cut is to cure". I understand where she was coming from and didn't take offense to it, but it showed that she didn't understand the nature of severe OA either.
I know someone like that. Even if you're just talking about a cold, they always have it waaaay worse than anyone else. I guess that "poor you" is the kind of attention they enjoy. My advice to you is to just suck it up. You can't really say anything to her without risking looking like an insensitive, unsympathetic jerk and you don't want that. It won't hurt to give her that bit of attention, and if a few sympathetic words will make her feel better, why not give them?Wow, Karen. That was eye opening for me. Thanks for posting it.im afraid im one of the ignorant many... i had never heard of ra untill i got it
but as yet still have not actually spoken to someone face to face whith ra
i have heard of oa and have met people whith it.. hip replacements and knees
and know what it can do.. is it because oa is more common people may think
it is not so bad...
Boney
Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I didn’t take the original post to be a “my disease is worse” post.
I don’t want my RA “clumped” together with someone else’s OA because they are two completely different conditions. I’m not saying OA can’t be severe. My mom has OA and is looking at two knee replacements this year. I know OA can be severe. I’m sure people with OA wouldn’t want to be lumped together with people who have RA either. I think people need to be educated about both.
I felt like the whole point of the post is about some people’s insensitivities and lack of knowledge. I felt like the co-worker was the insensitive one by attempting to make her condition worse. In fact, they are both bad.
The conversation I had with my best friend when I found out I had RA resulted in comments like, “It’s just arthritis, get over it” as well as “well, when you have Fibromyalgia, then we’ll talk about pain.” I wasn’t asking for sympathy from her, just understanding. By trying to make her pain “worse” than mine, she in fact was trivializing what was so overwhelming for me.
WanttobeFree -
I understood your post completely. Both you and Hillhoney are caring and sympathetic people - your communication lines got crossed but it looks like you're on the same page now.
Hillhoney and other OA people -
Am I the only person on the planet that thinks OA and RA is the same disease, just less progressive? Have you ever seen any researcher or scientist claiming their similar?
My reasoning is OA has the same inflammation cascade that we have including elevated markers for SED etc. They move on to the same 'age related' diseases that we do - HBP, diabetes, heart disease etc. It's the same progression we face, just a lot slower. I think something in the AO people's bodies is slowing the progression.
The only parallel I can offer is diabetes. Supposedly Type 1 is AI and Type 2 is diet and lifestyle. But recent research is placing turning those assumptions on it's ear and showing Type 1 and Type 2 are MUCH more similar than originally thought. Is there anything similar going on in Osteo research?
Hillhoney -
There is a med you can use. Minocin. My mother started AP for OA in February. She has had one knee replaced and the other is pending. While we know we can't undo previous damage, her spine is fusing and we're hoping to be able to stop that. Since Mino has been studied with heart disease, IBS, and HBP, we're looking at it as an added bonus.
Recent OA research that might tie OA and RA together
Old NIH research
Doxy (older tetracycline) research
Annals of Internal Med - note used as antiinflam -and mentions markers of OA - pg 394
There's more, please search PubMed.
Hugs,
Pip
P.S. Joonie - are you listening???
I think the original question was just phrased wrong. That's not a knock on the question or the questioner. I think we'd all choose not to be suffering. Am I right? I never imagined that I could suffer so much and not have a ready diagnosis. And when I see how poorly we get treated sometimes, it makes me mad.
Pip
Yep you are the only one on the planet that thinks OA and RA are the same disease (lol). OA does not have the same inflammation markers as RA does. ALso the damage patterns are different. You can see the difference on x'ray if you know what you are looking at. RA affects the synovial lining OA affects the cartilege. RA is systemic, OA can be isolated to a single joint
Looking at your articles...I'm a bit confused since most of the articles deal with osteoporosis not osteoarthritis. But some do mention the use of mincycline in the treatment of OA if that was the point. Unfortunately none of them talk about how effect it is.
The reality of diabetes is that type 1 is the complete absence of insulin production in the body. Type 2 is not having enough insulin to break down the glucose in the cells. The reason it can be controlled by diet and exercise is that in the vast majority of humans is the the lack of insulin is actually too much glucose. Eliminate the excess glucose and voila the diabetes goes away. In people with true insulin dependent type 2 (with controlled diets) the origins of the teo types may be similar
Buckeye, you said exactly what I was thinking after reading Pip's response :) I am a type I diabetic with RA and I wholeheartedly believe those conditions are different than type II diabetes and OA. One basic reason--type I and RA both result form one's own immune system going into overdrive and destroying one's body...type II and OA have non immune-related causes.
I think the whole discussion boils down to this: No one, regardless of their condition-- whether cancer, RA, OA, diabetes of either kind, or a common cold--wants to have his/her pain and suffering minimized. We all need an sympathetic ear every now and then that is not accompanied by a "yeah, I know...I have x and...." Yes, some seem to milk that for all it's worth, and I do feel sorry for them. But even in that case, all you have to say is "I'm sorry you're feeling poorly" and leave it at that. There's no need to fuel their sympathy-seeking.
Really, as far as the OA vs RA issue goes, there's no real comparison. They are two completely different diseases with different causes and different impacts on our bodies. Why even try to compare them? Let's recognize their uniqueness and sympathize with each other accordingly.
This is an interesting question. Although my disease is not full blown RA, but is RA "light" at this point, at first I felt like it was no contest. I'd like to be done with the RA and the toxic meds. But then I thought about the OA in my spine and how it's getting worse, and there's nothing to stop it. It worries me and makes me wonder if it's better to have a disease that can be treated, albeit with nasty stuff, than to have a disease that cannot be controlled, except for some of the pain. They both rot. Like Janie, I hane OA RA, Sjogrens, DDD, Fibro, etc.
My OA has done much more damage to my bones, SO FAR, that the RA has. My RA so far, has been more internalized, I think. But the OA has almost completely destroyed my spine, both hands. I also have painful damage in my shoulders, knees, etc.
But I wouldn't presume to ever compare my pain to anyone elses. People will say to me "but of course, my pain is nothing like yours". I tell them, everyone's pain is their own. It is very bad TO THEM, just as mine is TO ME. Just because mine is more obvious, how could I possibly say it is worse than another's? Or why would I want to? I would gladly give up my pain to someone who needs to be worse than someone else.
I have both OA & RA. My OA is in my fingers, knees and hips. My RA is everywhere and hits whenever and wherever it pleases, without warning, on any given day & at any unannounced hour. I have extra articular RA manifestations in my lungs, all connective tissues and intestinal tract.
If offered a magical cure for only one of these two nasty conditions, I'd take the RA cure in a heartbeat!
I can live with the bone pain/deformity issues of OA. They are fairly constant and stationary and are not going to invade my body systems. But, believe me, when one has the tendon, ligament, nerve AND joint pain of RA all going at one time, in addition to RA inflammatory breathing problems, cardiac problems, gutt problems this choice is a no brainer for me.
K.
Stupid Q about OA....I have been thiinking that RA is a disease of the elderly after years of wear and tear or due to past injuries. I see now that people do get OA, sometimes while they are still young. So just what is it that causes OA?i just want my health back. but if i had to choose RA would go 1st followed by OA then i would be dancing in the streets. shouting for JOY! wonderwomanI would give them both back in a heartbeat. RA would be the first one I'd kick to the curb. It's stopped me from working and enjoying the physical activities I enjoyed. It's given me a lot of painand it's made my OA knees much worse.
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