I'm Mad, very mad | Arthritis Information

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Sitting here day after day swollen up like crazy.  Sometimes can only walk to the potty, others can walk into a store and ride the buggy but that's it.

 
Why I am mad is that my doctors say "no more pred" (on 5mg) due to long term damage, but they say there are pills to fix that damage.
 
Then, they take their time getting meds to work for me.  3yrs now with full blown RA which i am sure has damaged joints already, joints that can't be fixed without surgery.
 
I sat there thinking, i would rather have damage that can be fixed by a pill, than damage far earlier that i have to rip out a knee and replace it.
 
I am angry at them right now.

I don't blame you for being angry.  Maybe it's time to consult a new doc?

If the Arava isn't working, have you tried Imuran?  Have you considered biologics?  Obviously it would be better to get the RA under control, but if they can't, they should be letting you have the pred (and a life) in the meantime.

((((((((((((bubba)))))))))))))))))))
 
I know how you feel.. I don't why, but my Dr, did take me off pred, several months /.. more ago and I don't miss it at all!!
 
Or maybe, I don't know I miss it! lol
 
I'm sorry you're having a rough day too... I'll make a deal w/ you,  ok so F.. our joints may ..
"may" be damaged.. so..ok..can't do anything about that..
 
i'm going to start my visualization process, and start seeing them as stronger, each day, instead of concentrating on the negative.. NOw, trust me,... you Will see me venting, still
Lol
 
ok, not going to hijack your thread, going to post the rest of my thoughts, in my post
Anger.. or separate.post.
 
How much do you trust your Dr? Has he been good to you? Trying out various medicine, listens? Those things are impt.. my dr is one of the few, i really Do trust..
I figure he has reasons for things....he's been studying and working on this for years..
so, I'm going along w/ his plan...
 
not saying you should do the same, go w/ your gut and feelings..
 now, go find a funny movie, read some Calvin and Hobbes, or Bloom County.
 
 
but I get how you feel... and how frustrating and limiting our life has become..
 
 
Together we'll get thru this day? cool beans?
 
HUGS~ hi bubba i was lookinkg for some info on fosamax for you and came
accross these as a user of fosmax i think a little more research
needs to b done by me.. i allso take calcichew whith vit b12

Boney

An article recently published in the Journal of Bone & Mineral Research, Fracture Incidence & Characterization in Patients on Osteoporosis Treatment: The ICARO Study, shows that the clinical trials Merck touts overstate the actual benefit conferred by Fosamax in the clinical or practical setting. The article is published in the October 2006 edition of the Journal, at pages 1565-1570.

I found it very curious that there was poor fracture reduction response for patients on Fosamax unless they were also taken Vitamin D and calcium supplements. Could it be that the Vitamin D and calcium supplements are what is helping patients rather than the Fosamax? Studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine show that Vitamin D and calcium supplements, taken by themselves, do have a significant effect on decreasing fractures.

It would be very interesting to see a head-to-head comparison of alendronate (Fosamax) therapy by itself to Vitamin D + calcium supplements to see which one is more effective at reducing fractures.

The attorneys at Levin Papantonio will be examining these questions with Merck over the next several months.








Jan 9, 2007,

e

Let no one say the studies in JAMA are funded by hidden drug company money. The funding is right out in the open.

"Effects of Continuing or Stopping Alendronate After 5 Years of Treatment," in the December 27, 2006, issue of JAMA was funded by Merck that manufactures alendronate, a bisphosphonate, under the patent name Fosamax.

Not only was the study "supported by contracts with Merck and Co.," according to JAMA, it "was designed jointly by the non-Merck investigators and Merck employees"  and written "with editorial input from Merck throughout the process."

Want further transparency? "The final version of the manuscript was approved by all coauthors, including Merck authors," says JAMA.

The study's 11 non-Merck authors disclosed 40 research grants, consultancies and other financial relationships with drug companies including Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Roche, SmithGlaxoKline, Wyeth, Novartis, Procter & Gamble and, of course, Merck.

And the three Merck authors disclosed they "potentially own stock and/or stock options" -- as if working for Merck weren't enough of a conflict of interest.

Dr. Cathleen S. Colon-Emeric who wrote an accompanying editorial, "Ten Vs Five Years of Bisphosphonate Treatment for Postmenopausal Osteoporosis," and discloses she has received money from Novartis, even appears on an "Understanding Osteoporosis" Novartis web page.

It's a good thing Editor in Chief Dr. Catherine DeAngelis has cleaned things up since the scandals about JAMA authors taking undisclosed drug company money earlier in 2006.

Of course the osteoporosis market is big -- the malady "grew" from half a million to 3.6 million when bisphosphonates were introduced in the mid 1990s, says the Associated Press with tongue firmly in cheek -- and Fosamax is Merck's second biggest performer.

Merck even presciently went into the bone density measuring equipment business, says Maryann Napoli of the Center for Medical Consumers, so patients wouldn't have to go too far to be told they had osteopenia (which they all had) -- a term that also appeared when bisphosphonates did, meaning low bone mass or low rate of drug sign up, depending on whom you ask.

But there were a few wrinkles in the bone-anza.

Soon after Merck launched Fosamax, it was slapped with an FDA warning that its advertising was misleading and in violation of the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act.

"The headline on page two, 'Menopause is the single most important cause of osteoporosis' is false," wrote Anne M. Reb, regulatory review officer, in a July 2, 1997 letter, "because although menopause is a factor contributing to the development of osteoporosis, menopause alone does not cause osteoporosis. Further the headline [Are You One of 20 Million Women With Osteoporosis?] is misleading because it overstates the population eligible for therapy with Fosamax by implying that all women develop osteoporosis at menopause."

Two years later Merck was again cited for misleading advertising, this time for failing to include risk information about Fosamax and another pill called Vioxx, used for the treatment of osteoarthritis.

Doctors were also having doubts.

"Many people believe that these drugs are 'bone builders,' but the evidence shows they are actually bone hardeners," wrote Dr. Susan M. Ott in the Annals of Internal Medicine in 2004, pointing out that they depress "the bone resorption rate as well as the bone formation rate" and "bones could become brittle with long-term accumulation."

Indeed, problems from lack of bone formation is exactly what a study in the March 2005 issue of the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism (Severely suppressed bone turnover: a potential complication of alendronate therapy) found.

"We report on nine patients who sustained spontaneous nonspinal fractures while on alendronate therapy, six of whom displayed either delayed or absent fracture healing for 3 months to 2 years during therapy," wrote the authors.

"Our findings raise the possibility that severe suppression of bone turnover may develop during long-term alendronate therapy, resulting in increased susceptibility to, and delayed healing of, nonspinal fractures."

And there were patients themselves.

"I still suspect I have been permanently (or hopefully semi-permanently) altered by Fosamax," wrote one woman on the web site Ask a Patient where over 450 rate the drug. "It is as though my ligaments became crystallized, without elasticity."

"After six years of taking Fosamax, I slipped in ice in my driveway and broke my femur (thigh bone). Two years later, still taking Fosamax, I fell in the snow and my other femur snapped before I hit the ground," wrote another woman.

"My condition is basically the same as rickets," wrote a third after going off Fosamax.

And there was more bad news.

Merck's attempt to bill a once a week version of Fosamax as a new drug protected by a new patent -- yeah, right -- until 2018 was denied by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington, D.C., after years of litigation. Generics maker Teva Pharmaceutical Industries is now nipping at Merck's heels and ready to begin marketing alendronate next year.

In its self-funded study, "Effects of Continuing or Stopping Alendronate After 5 Years of Treatment," -- did JAMA charge ad rates? -- Merck concludes the residual effects of Fosamax in women who have taken the drug for five years will last indefinitely. (Just what many feared.) What else will last indefinitely is the effect of Merck's shameless and deceptive marketing.


Boney2008-04-26 13:19:12I feel sorry for you and others that are in the same situation.
I can understand you anger.

Perhaps I'm headed that way and will truly understand one day.
Lots of hugs to you Bubbagump !!
No, i don't have the other arthritis, in fact after 3 yrs i am still looking great at 5mg of pred.  But my RA has not changed one bit because my pred is so low and drugs don't work on me.
 
I have an allergy type attack to most meds they put me on and i have chronic Bacterial Vaginosis, so i can't get put on the biologics.
 
Arava isn't doing squat for my RA yet and my RA has gotten worse in the past month, my wrist bone is huge and my knees are getting bad and my elbow and my finger is far larger than before and i finally feel the pain in my toe.
 
I know that larger doses of pred work, but they don't want me on pred.  But if the other drugs aren't doing squat or make me worse, then why not up my prednisone?
 
My wrist no longer bends backwards, my finger is wavy shape instead of straight, and i am worrying about how my knees are going to be soon.
 
I have tried to be strong and keep going for 3yrs now, but i am now getting worse and it scares me.
 
I only see my doctor (RA) about once, maybe twice a year, i get upped on drugs from the nurse by phone and only see the blood lady each month for tests.
 
I feel overly neglected.
hi bubba the information about osteoprosis is not arthritis  but a thining of the bones
and can be caused by rheumatoid arthritis and by steroid use ..here is some info
for you...  Boney

osteoporosis is a disease of bone that leads to an increased risk of fracture. In osteoporosis the bone mineral density (BMD) is reduced, bone microarchitecture is disrupted, and the amount and variety of non-collagenous proteins in bone is altered. Osteoporosis is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) in women as a bone mineral density 2.5 standard deviations below peak bone mass (20-year-old healthy female average) as measured by DXA; the term "established osteoporosis" includes the presence of a fragility fracture.[1] Osteoporosis is most common in women after menopause, when it is called postmenopausal osteoporosis, but may also develop in elderly men, and may occur in anyone in the presence of particular hormonal disorders and other chronic diseases or as a result of medications, specifically glucocorticoids, when the disease is called steroid- or glucocorticoid-induced osteoporosis (SIOP or GIOP). Given its influence on the risk of fragility fracture, osteoporosis may significantly affect life expectancy and quality of life.

Osteoporosis can be prevented with lifestyle advice and sometimes medication, and in people with osteoporosis treatment may involve lifestyle advice, preventing falls and medication (calcium, vitamin D, bisphosphonates and several others).




Prednisone may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:

  • headache
  • dizziness
  • difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep
  • inappropriate happiness
  • extreme changes in mood
  • changes in personality
  • bulging eyes
  • acne
  • thin, fragile skin
  • red or purple blotches or lines under the skin
  • slowed healing of cuts and bruises
  • increased hair growth
  • changes in the way fat is spread around the body
  • extreme tiredness
  • weak muscles
  • irregular or absent menstrual periods
  • decreased sexual desire
  • heartburn
  • increased sweating

Some side effects can be serious. If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately:

  • vision problems
  • eye pain, redness, or tearing
  • sore throat, fever, chills, cough, or other signs of infection
  • seizures
  • depression
  • loss of contact with reality
  • confusion
  • muscle twitching or tightening
  • shaking of the hands that you cannot control
  • numbness, burning, or tingling in the face, arms, legs, feet, or hands
  • upset stomach
  • vomiting
  • lightheadedness
  • irregular heartbeat
  • sudden weight gain
  • shortness of breath, especially during the night
  • dry, hacking cough
  • swelling or pain in the stomach
  • swelling of the eyes, face, lips, tongue, throat, arms, hands, feet, ankles, or lower legs
  • difficulty breathing or swallowing
  • rash
  • hives
  • itching

Prednisone may slow growth and development in children. Your child's doctor will watch his or her growth carefully. Talk to your child's doctor about the risks of giving prednisone to your child.

Prednisone may increase the risk that you will develop osteoporosis. Talk to your doctor about the risks of taking prednisone and about things that you can do to decrease the chance that you will develop osteoporosis.

Some patients who took prednisone or similar medications developed a type of cancer called Kaposi's sarcoma. Talk to your doctor about the risks of taking prednisone.

Prednisone may cause other side effects. Call your doctor if you have any unusual problems while you are taking this medication.



Bubba, what do you mean your dr, only sees you once or twice a year!!!???
 
I think its time, to start shopping around for a new RHEM... ASAp!!
 
The nurse shouldn't be upping your meds, over the phone, but the Dr, IN PERSON!!!
 
I see my Rhem, almost every month.
 
I would be upset too..
Whispered2008-04-26 20:19:42

Bubba,

Bless your heart.  I would be angry too.

I agree with everything Whispered just posted.
 
When I'm having problems, my RD sees me every 8-12 weeks.  When I'm doing fine, I see him every 6 months.  So, it concerns me that you aren't getting the attention you obviously need.
 
I'm confused about why they don't want you on prednisone if nothing else works?  You said you didn't have osteoporosis, is that right?  What reasoning are they giving you then?  I'd say if you can't take anything else, why not opt for comfort?  Quality of life would definitely outweigh quantity of life for me.
 
Is there another RD in your area?  I think I'd go for a second opinion.
I feel for ya. I realize and understand  the anger, ....but.......BE thankful your Doc cares enough to take you off the pred. I am living proof of what the damage of this drug can be like. I do not regret being on the pred, but I do live with the consequences of bone probs and eye problems caused by the pred.I agree with Whispered and kweenb.  My rheumy is currently seeing me every 4 weeks.  Even when I just had the fibro, I'd still see him every 8 to 10 weeks.  If your symptoms aren't under control, they need to see you regularly and do something about it.  If they won't, find someone who will.
 
If the Arava doesn't work after you've given it time, try the Imuran...it's not a biologic, just another regular DMARD.
My rhummy is the only one in our close city range, she works in two cities so she is rarely available.  The closest one after that is hours away, we live in the middle of nowhere.  I tried going to one out there before her, but they were horrible and kept giving me different diagnosis every visit which angered me.  So i went to her instead.
 
My family doctor would like to up my pred, he is the one that gives it to me anyway, but he doesn't want to go against what she says etc.
 
It's driving me nuts.
 
My family doctor treats RA patients all the time for the damage to their bodies.  He said if it were up to him, after going through the troubles with all meds and weighing them, he would have me on pred and nothing else.  He has patients on biologics and other meds that have horrible liver failures, kidney problems etc. but his pred patients don't have problems.
 
I just want to scream and never get out of bed.
 
Oh yah, i have "no" bone damage (except ra damage of course).
bubbagump2008-04-28 12:55:33
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