Australian broadcast for the minoheads | Arthritis Information

This is a broadcast on ABC (Australia). The guest is a former colleague of the reporter. He has RA and is on AP. I read the transcript, but you can listen, too:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2008/2260412.htm

Suzanne2008-06-03 07:39:59Suzanne,

Where do you "minoheads" find these ridiculus stories? When the minohead is asked what drugs he was taking before being enlightened to ap therapy, this is what he said, taken from the interview:

Norman Swan: What medications did they have you on?

Peter Wall: Well I did the normal run of things, I had Gold shots, I had a thing called Arava, I didn't do the Methotrexate route because -

He was having gold shots? The normal run of things? No offense but gold isn't normal or is it? Suzanne?

Here was the bottom line of the interview:

Norman Swan: Do you have many patients on it?

Lyn March: No I don't because as I said it's not mainstream, it's not at this stage recommended and not actually listed for that use. With rheumatoid we really should be aiming to get the patients into remission and that is achievable now with the drugs that we have available so we can actually switch off the erosions and I guess clearly there are potentials for harms and benefits in every drug and there certainly are potential harms for the tetracycline usage long term as well. And you want your benefits to far outweigh those harms so I'm not convinced with the evidence that that's where we are with the tetracyclines.

Norman Swan: And what are the downsides?

Lyn March: Because it's affecting the immune system, it can actually tip it over the other way sometimes and there are numerous case reports of the tetracycline derivatives, particularly minocycline, actually causing some autoimmune diseases so it can induce the anti-nuclear antibodies that we see in systemic lupus erythematosus and cause evasculitis, it can cause acute renal failure or liver failure.

Norman Swan: You mentioned osteoarthritis in passing is there any evidence for these tetracyclines in osteo?

Lyn March: It might well be Norman that it may be more useful in osteoarthritis because one of the key pathology that's occurring in osteoarthritis is in the articular cartilage and in the underlying bone and by inhibiting those metalloproteinases and reducing collagen destruction it might actually protect the cartilage and there has been quite a reasonably done randomised trial that showed that the joint space narrowing that we see on X-ray was reduced in the people taking the minocycline but interestingly pain wasn't particularly influenced. So it's clearly not straightforward.

Norman Swan: Associate Professor Lyn March who is based at Royal North Shore Hospital in Sydney. I'm Norman Swan and you've been listening to the Health Report.

One more thing Suzanne, in a previous thread, Pip insinuated that your daughter is suffering severe ra. Is that true? I can't imagine any doctor recomending minocin for severe jra. Pip said to ask you.

LEV

PS I am not against ap therapy. I am against posting statements that cannot be proven to be the truth and the fact that when a minohead is questioned about a statement made by a minohead, the person(s) are attacked because the facts cannot be backed up and so the minohead instead reverts to nastiness. If anyone makes a claim about a medicine, anyone has the right to ask for the proof, it's just that simple. I don't think that anyone will disagree that minocine is an avenue of therapy for mild ra and yet you minoheads keep a war going that many people are claiming it not to be. The claim is that it is an avenue for MILD ra. It's crazy that yous are so hell bent on making claims that can't be substantiated except by a few minoheads, not scientific proof. I'm not picking on you Suzanne, just stating a absolute fact. I hope that in the future you will be careful to post fact and not opinions. Of course, I wish only the best for you and your daughter and everyone of us with RA. I just think that you should consider the irreversable consequenses to a person that you may lead down the wrong road. RA can do an enormous amount of damage in just 6 short months. Fortunately, most doctors are prescribing minocine with another ra drug such as mtx or plaquinal etc. I know that most minoheads give all the credit to the minocin, oh well. Doctors and scientists are not paid off by big pharm and so sacrifice your daughters well being for a fistful of dollars. There is no 50 year conspiracy against minocine and it's cousins.

LEV

[QUOTE=levlarry] [QUOTE=levlarry]

Jan

Suzanne,

I have heard of people using gold and I think it was at this forum from the long time sufferers. I know that gold is and was a very dangerous avenue. I guess that was my point. Why keep posting stories and data from the 1990s. This is 2008. All of the studies that Pip posted were from the 1990s. That's pre-historic in the new age of medicines.

Also, Pip said to ask you if your daughter has severe jra, still wondering.

Again, Suzanne, don't take this an attack on you because it isn't. Just an attempt to get to the absolute facts, that's all and everyone with such a serious disease deserves facts, not opinions when they see a fork in the road and a person directing them to go left when maybe they should go right.

LEV

[QUOTE=levlarry] [QUOTE=levlarry] gold salts were the original DMARD it could be extremely toxic on the kidneys. It has since been replaced with safer more effective medications however you will still find some long time patients on itLev -

You forgot this part -

Richard Schloeffel: Well some of the studies that have been done in the States looks around 60%65% of people will benefit from antibiotics, particularly minocycline and I think I'm getting around about the same numbers. Most patients see me twice a year for scripts for minocycline which is working out a few dollars a week as compared to some of the newer treatments the TNF drugs, anti TNF drugs Enbrel and whatever.

Please remember - this is Australia where this is NOT listed as a DMARD like it is in the USA.

Makes me proud to be an American Minohead!

And Gold is prescribed there a lot more than here nowadays - so say my Aussie friends.

Hugs,

Pip

_popupControl();^ FYI, Lev, in Australia, our Medicare system insists on patients using Gold (unless there is a pre-history of kidney problems) before being able to try biologics. We have an established system which starts with NSAIDS > Plaquenil (HCQ) by itself or MTX by itself > HCQ + Sulfasalazine (SSZ) > HCQ + SSZ + MTX > Gold Salts > Leflunomide or Leflunomide + MTX or Cyclosporin. After you have tried ALL these medications and still have SEVERE ACTIVE Rheumatoid Arthritis with a joint count of OVER 20 affected, swollen joints or 4 affected major joint groups, you can apply for bDMARDs. This is the run of things in Australia.

Suzanne,

I want to clarify this statement that I made:

"Doctors and scientists are not paid off by big pharm and so sacrifice your daughters well being for a fistful of dollars. There is no 50 year conspiracy against minocine and it's cousins."

I didn't mean that you would sacrifice your daughters well being, I was saying that healthcare professionals will not sacrifice your daughters well being for a fist full of dollars as some minoheads wrecklessly claim.

PaperDoll,

I see why Australia is called the land down under. Good luck with that health care system.

LEV

[QUOTE=levlarry] paperdoll-

I am SO sorry to hear this is the situation in Australia. Hope you can get it changed.

Gold injections have MULTIPLE side effects including skin turning blue. This was the treatment Dr. Brown disliked the MOST.

Best wishes.

Jan

[QUOTE=Jan Lucinda]paperdoll- _popupControl(); the skin doesn't turn with gold..it does with colloidal silver but not gold. Golds major side effect is toxicity and kidney failurePaperdoll -

I understand your belief in the necessary use of a ladder - IMHO, you all would be a lot safer it they had Mino/Doxy as a possiblity and took that gold off the list.

Pip