A NICE farce | Arthritis Information

From what I understand a lot of people have to try alternative drugs before they find one that works, or they find they need to switch after a couple of years.

I know we are supposed to have a 'free' health service here in the UK (although according to the amount they take off me each month in NI tax this isn't the case), but sometimes I wonder why they bother!

Although if you are feeling a bit down because you are overweight or want some other type of cosmetic surgery they may consider it!

For explanation of my little rant read on:

LONDON, July 21 (Reuters) - Three rheumatoid arthritis drugs should not be given to patients on Britain's state-run health service when similar drugs have already failed, the country's healthcare cost-effectiveness body said on Monday.

The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) said it was not recommending Humira, Enbrel or Remicade for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis after the failure of a previous tumour necrosis factor alpha inhibitor.

Humira is sold in Europe by Abbott Laboratories Inc (ABT.N: Quote, Profile, Research), Enbrel by Wyeth (WYE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Remicade by Schering-Plough Corp (SGP.N: Quote, Profile, Research).

All three anti-TNF medicines work in a similar way, by blocking an inflammatory protein involved in the painful joint disorder.

They have become blockbuster sellers and Abbott predicted last week its Humira medicine would generate worldwide sales of more than .3 billion this year.

Their use on the British National Health Service is controversial, however, because of their high cost, which can exceed 10,000 pounds (,000) per patient a year.

NICE agreed last year to reconsider its earlier draft guidance preventing patients from trying a second anti-TNF treatment if the first did not work.

But, in the event, the watchdog concluded in its final appraisal determination that giving a second similar medicine was not a cost-effective use of resources. (Reporting by Ben Hirschler; editing by Sue Thomas)

So Universal health care isn't working out too well over in the UK. There is a new Canadian girl (AnAudlife) on the board saying that after living in both the US and in Canada, she likes our health care better. I wish people here that are so bent on turning in our health care system,which admitedly needs improvement, would listen to folks like you that are living with the problems of taxpayer supported system. Changing over is just trading one set of problems for another. Fix what we have but keep the fundementals of privatized medicine.

Linncn. Some how I knew you would jump on this.

You know...i have decided that I like our system just as it is. Lets just keep on spending more and more and more on useless tests and procedures before we get to the bottom line. If you ask me, I think being a bit conservative is a good thing. Isn't that the word you like? Conservative. This is just what the UK is doing. They are being CONSERVATIVE with their health care dollars. Something that WE should be doing. I don't get you guys. Do you want to spend money? Or save it? Explain your logic to me.

Lorster, why do you always miss the part where I say that I agree that our system needs to be revamped as it is obviously less than perfect? You always go on like I said it's just perfect the way it is and I have NEVER said that. Not even once.

What I want is for the government to not take control of our health care system because they always just throw too much money and red tape and buracracy at anything they get their hands on. And they make things worse and harder for everyone.

But...lorster.........it's nice to see you. Hope you and yours are all well. :)[QUOTE=Linncn]

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The UK's health system has its problems, but I wonder how many Brits would trade their system for our current system, that leaves 47 million with no health insurance and millions more underinsured, and causes many to seek bankruptcy as a result of medical costs -- even those that had insurance.

Do not confuse a health care delivery system with universal coverage, which simply means access to health care for all of a country's citizens. The US is the only industrialized nation that does not provide universal health coverage. The UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, Germany, France, Spain, Denmark, Switzerland, Finland, all provide universal health coverage -- they all have different health care delivery systems -- and they spend less doing so than the US.

I wish people here that are so bent on continuing to be uninformed on the subject of health care reform would do some research and reading, Most of the health care proposals being seriously considered would build on our current health care system of public (gov) AND private health insurance plans, and they would include steps to make our system more efficient - electronic data keeping, effective - prevention programs, and equitable - no discrimination against those w/pre existing conditions and increased access to affordable health insurance.

Several of the other industrialized countries that have universal coverage have health care delivery systems that have public (gov) and private health insurance programs, but in these countries, the government regulates insurers and pharmaceutical companies. In our country, the influence of insurance and drug companies is greater than the voice of the people, and so millions of Americans go without access to adequate health care.

Many of these country's that you mention do have the kind of system that you refer to. Public health care and, for those who can afford it, private health insurance too. But that is expensive especially when you're already paying high taxes for public health care. You still end up with a great divide between the haves and the have nots. What needs to be done is for private insurance to be made affordable and available for all. That could be done if groups other than through the employer could band together, like they do with credit unions, to get larger group rates. It would also help if doctors didn't have to pay sky rocket malpractice insurance in order to cover their butts from a sue happy society. How about cracking down on fraud, in both the private and public sectors? Their are a lot of ways the cost could be whittled away at. And for those who still fall between the cracks, who really cannot help themselves, more money would be freed up to supply them with what they need for the duration that they need it. Universal health care isn't the only choice. When you see that other countries do have problems with their systems, why go through the astronomical costs of changing our system when we can keep it, but fix it?Someone on here had posted Massachusates new state health care plan. I thought it was a good idea and it looked (on paper) to be a reasonable solution and one that would get all the people in that state insured. At least that state is making an effort.

Linncn. I don't know what the answer is...but there has to be one. There is a tremendous amount of waste in the health care industry. If we scaled back, started looking at cost, maybe we (you and I) would not have to pay huge premiums. This waste is part of why our health care has been driven up. The other issue I have is people going bankrupt when they fall ill. They have to sell everything to make it. Is this right? None of us should expect a handout but we are now a nation of 300 million people. We must look at our growing population. Health care has worked for years but now we must start thinking of our growing population. We must change with the times. we can't all live back in the 50's and 60's when most Americans had a way to pay for health care through their employers.

I find it unfair that some employers offer health care coverage and others don't. Maybe they all should be required to offer it on a sliding scale.

At work, I see a tremendous amount of waste, not only in tests and procedures(how many endoscopies does a patient need in a single hospitalization?) but in the goods we just carelessly throw in the trash. And I'm sure it is this way across the nation. We are a nation of waste.

Again, I don't have a solution but I do know that people should not lay on the floor of an ER, or a hospital waiting room and die. This is appalling on so many levels.

Do you have any ideas?Linda - what about when the doc is a fault and the person is harmed to no end? Some die from malpractice. And states are moving to cap the limit at 0K and 1.6 M when they kill you.

We will never get this system fixed when its about the almighty dollar. When the key is therapy instead of cure.

Hugs,

Pip

Maybe you and I should get together some Saturday and figure it out? I'm free second weekend in August. We could probably come up with an easier and better solution than all these politicians.

I have a friend who has a combined family income of 4000 gross a month. Their health care premiums are a bit more than a 1000 a month. This is 25percent of their income for health care. Is this cheaper than the UK? I would be curious to know what percent of UK income goes to health care. Anyone from UK want to let us know?

Oh, and this amount does not include deductibles and copays.lorster2008-07-21 19:40:52 [QUOTE=Linncn] Maybe you and I should get together some Saturday and figure it out? I'm free second weekend in August. We could probably come up with an easier and better solution than all these politicians.

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Hey, not a bad idea....you wanna meet somewhere in North Dakota? I'm not talking about true negligence. I'm talking about the ridiculous lawsuits...the womwn who was awarded however much because the x-rays knocked out her ability to read the future. That sort of thing. Or the people out there who are just looking for a reason. They usually find one. They hit it big and everyone else, you, me, the doctor all pick up the tab. Their should be some way to limit that.Lorster~ sure, I've never been there so it'll be that much more fun. I wonder if we should limit ourselves to fixing health care or just go for broke and fix everything??? And then, a pedicure. [QUOTE=Linncn]Lorster~ sure, I've never been there so it'll be that much more fun. I wonder if we should limit ourselves to fixing health care or just go for broke and fix everything??? And then, a pedicure.[/QUOTE]

Are there strawberry margaritas involved?
As long as we can go shopping, I"m there! [QUOTE=JasmineRain]
[QUOTE=Linncn]Lorster~ sure, I've never been there so it'll be that much more fun. I wonder if we should limit ourselves to fixing health care or just go for broke and fix everything??? And then, a pedicure.[/QUOTE]Are there strawberry margaritas involved?[/QUOTE]

All you want....and the more we drink, the more creative we will get at fixing this mess. [QUOTE=lorster]As long as we can go shopping, I"m there![/QUOTE]

As long as that shopping includes a computer parts store and a bookstore (with a BIG geek section)!
I've heard of brainstorming sessions going on in a THINK TANK, but you guys will solve the nations's problems in a DRINK TANK!!! [QUOTE=Hillhoney]I've heard of brainstorming sessions going on in a THINK TANK, but you guys will solve the nations's problems in a DRINK TANK!!! [/QUOTE]

Jas, you ARE the big geek section!!
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