MTX&Beer | Arthritis Information

I know this is a no-no but my RD told me no more than 2 per week he said lots of studies have been done? ! I've been very good sticking to this for 5 weeks and sometimes go a week without. I'm struggling with the fact that I have had to cut way back and yet those in my circle (DH included) continue to indulge and overindulge and was wondering how many have gone the Non-Alcoholic beer route and can offer suggestions? My blood tests for liver/kidney came back normal after 4 weeks on( MTX 10mg& Pred 7.5mg) I'm starting to want to avoid certain people because of this and I'm thinking maybe If I could find a good substitute for the real thing I will stop feeling so sorry for myself and bitter and quit giving DH a guilt trip every chance I get.

I just had this talk with my doctor because I miss my cocktails and my circle is like yours.

He said they just don't know. Because of that the answer is no alcohol. He said that you can drink and have tests come back normal time after time and then BANG! I asked if that happened and you stop would it reverse? He said no.

Is he right? Does he know? I don't know...but I can't risk it....

It sucks. Our circle of friends always have alcohol, and DH drinks regardless of how I feel. Going out isn't as fun because you feel left out. I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't. I have wine some weeks 4 glasses other weeks none. I hope that's not what happens, everything going smoothly and then boom. When I asked doctor he said a little bit won't hurt. What's a little bit?My doctor said as long as my test were ok a few wouldn't hurt. After 5 years on MTX "BAM!" My liver enzymes are elevated. Sadly Im off alcohol all together and the worst part is I'm having to quickly reduce the one medication that has helped me the most.

I won't be one of the ones that say "No, NO, NO". Some people who never drink a drop have liver problems...but I will warn you that over time it can effect you. I'm living proof.

Don't take tylenol. That is super bad onyour liver also. Use advil instead. That will help some.

Lovie2008-09-05 03:12:46Hi Bonnie

I have tried a few NA beers and can't tell the difference - they're really pretty good. Some I've had are O'Douls - Amber, Buckler - (holland import?) , Clausthaler (sp) and My mom likes St. Pauli Girl. Or, another alternative that I learned on my list trip was a shanty. It's maybe 2/3 7-up and 1/3 beer - bartenders don't know what it is, so I just tell them the approx mix. It's really pretty refreshing, especially in the summer. NA wine is a different story, that's more difficult to find, so I still have 3-4 glasses/week.

My liver counts have been great for 18 months and I do worry will it sneak up on me, but my RD said that I'm fine to continue as is. Probably wouldn't hurt to skip a week now and then though.

Cathy

Lovie,

Sorry that's happened to you. As far as the tylenol, that is in vicodin and ultracet, both of which I take. I didn't know that you shouldn't take those with MTX. I figured it's okay since the doctors give me the scripts. however, I don't take them daily, just when I really need it.

Now that you have no alcohol, is that forever? Is it true that the liver issues aren't reversible?

I was told by my Rheumatologist and the specialist nurse the the liver processes MXT the same way it dfoes alcohol, and, dringing a lot whiler on MXT can put a strain on the liver. As there is a risk of liver problems with MXT anyway I don't drink at all unless it's a toast at a wedding or something.

I do occasonally miss a glass of wine but I figured there are so many toxins from the meds going into my body, it could do without another one lol I think in the last year I've had 4 drinks.

take care,

Lynne

xxxx

I've been on MTX for about 10 years. Had a Liver Biopsy about 6 years ago. Spoke with my Rheumy and a Gastro/Liver guy. They both said that tests show no difference after about 6/7 yeras on MTX. If your Enzymes are high then they would suggest another biopsy every 4/5 years. As far a Beer. Both said a few ( 3 ) is OK . I can say that I have had a few night that were past that. So far, so good. I will have some during Baseball games etc. I guess it's an individual thing [QUOTE=Debrakay]Lovie,

Now that you have no alcohol, is that forever? Is it true that the liver issues aren't reversible?

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No; I think that it's reversible. I think they it can return to normal after the toxins are removed. I'm not sure though. I think it can get so bad that it's not reversible...but honestly; I'm just starting to learn what it's all about.

Don't panic about the tylenol issue. If your doctor is prescribing it they are obviously not worried about it. When I tested high twice my doctor told me not remove alcohol and no tylenol. Medications that have tylenol in them will also contribute to my problems at this time. I just meant to suggest to those that are having a few drinks that removing OTC tylenol might help reduce their risk if they are taking it. That's my stupid opinion; and likely means nothing. Please don't discontinue use of anything prescribed by your doctor before talking to him first.

This week I begin taking only 15mg of MTX. Three weeks ago I went down to 20mg from my original 25mg. Slowly things are declining. I take Humira so I'm hoping it's going to be able to make up the difference but I wounldn't be honest if I said I wasn't worried. They asked me what I wanted to do and I said I'd take it one day at a time and see how I do. I've got the option of going weekly with Humira and that may end up being the way to go. We'll just wait and see. Trying to stay positive.

At what point do they ask for a liver biopsy? I dread the thought of that. What was it like? I heard that was pretty painful.

I'm not even on meds yet and I haven't had a drink in years. The reason is the next day I feel dehydrated and even more stiff than usual. I just felt it wasn't worth it. I just enjoy my friends when they drink and don't try to keep up with them.That's probable good. You'll never miss it like so many of us do when we are forced to stop. I very much miss the social aspects of it.Oh and let me add that I take Milk Thistle every day and Folic acidI haven't drank since I started MXT 2 years ago. Why would I want to take the chance? This doctor says it's ok, another says you can have 2 drinks a week, and another says no alcohol. So who do you believe? I decided that since I had an old liver (60 years old) and hadn't treated it with the upmost care in the last 60 years that I'd opt for no alcohol. I've barely missed it. None of our friends have ever mentioned my not drinking other than offering me non alcholic drinks. Friends and family and most importantly yourself should never make you feel guilty or bad because you're not drinking alcohol. LindyOh my God. I have been on MTX 6 years. i did cut way back on drinking at first but gradually got back to my old habits. never gave it a 2nd thought. Ihave only had elevated liver function on one test, it normaled the next month.it almost scares me to tell you that in the last week, and it has been a normal week, at least drinking wise, that i have gone through 34 bottles of White wine. 1/2 bottle of vodka, and a trip to hooters that involved 3x32oz beers. Now to put some perspective on this i am 44 and have been a heavy drinker since 16, born in England, so that compared to say 10 years ago was a very light week. I couldn't imagine stopping drinking, With the severe PA/RA, i have a broken wrist at the moment, decision on bone graft surgery due next Wed, me and my wife of 13 years seperated 8 weeks ago, i just had a bunch of fluid removed from my knee yesterday and pseudogout diagnosed. work just announced 6,700 layoffs, not sure if im one. ask me to stop drinking and i will ask you wher the gun is.

Correction 4 not 34 bottles of wine. you must think me a drunk Good luck clufus.hey clufus

four bottles of wine in a week? that's not so bad. if the vintage is right

it's probably good for you

Just butting in a bit. Tramadol is ultracet WITHOUT the tylenol. It is my everyday pain pill.

Tylenol is very sneaky and it is mixed into all kinds of OTC and prescription meds. It is pretty easy to get 2000mg in a day if you are not thinking about it.

Over 2000mg on a daily basis is a liver wrecker.The age old question of to drink or not to drink while on mtx. I was never a person that drank so I didn't have that to worry about when I started the mtx. I would think that like anything else in life that if you use alcohol in moderation that it should be ok. Just make sure your enzymes are doing well. [QUOTE=clufus]Correction 4 not 34 bottles of wine. you must think me a drunk[/QUOTE]

Tramodol is my every day pill too. Just about anyway. Their not that strong....but I guess their strong enough.

Before I read the correction of 4 bottles of wine, I was doing the math as to how many bottles per night, lol.............I think it is an individual thing, I have been on MTX + for 4 years and couldn't give up my wine, turkey & coke, my doc said ok only 2 glasses a night.......he didn't say how big the glasses had to be...I like how you think Annie!clufus- we need to hang out! LOL!It's a cumulative effect on the liver. One day it's fine and the next day it's shot. LindyHello! Hopefully my situation is temporary; but I've got a feeling I'm not going to be having too many more carefree party nights like I did in the good old days after I get things back under control this time.

At the very least....I'm going to be taken off MTX all together. MTX to date has been the best medication I've ever been on.

I went 5....I guess 6 since until I had my first elevated liver panel. A slight reduction isn't helping it.

At the very least I'd suggest you guys choose your drinking opprotunities wisely.

I've had two bad experiences with alcohol when I have had more than a couple.

Have woken up thru the night drenched in sweat, it was literally just pouring out of me.
I felt my time was up.

Had consumed 2 cans beer and two glasses of wine over 2 to 3 hours.
First time i just thought it was one of those things, the second time the penny dropped.
Both times it happened were after consuming to much alcohol.

I now limit myself to a can or two a month, that's it.
If mates persist trying to get more down my throat I just say, would you prefer I leave and once I did.
They sorta understand now.
I just 'love' my stubbie of beer at the end of the day, each day whilst the dinner is cooking. When I was on MTX I had one Rheumy say absolutely no alcohol and another say my 1 stubbie per day would be fine.

I have bloodwork done each fortnight, have done so for many years so figured if there was a problem, I'd see it pretty quickly.

Looking back to the time before I was diagnosed (over 20 years ago) if I'd been to a BBQ or party and had perhaps 4 -6 stubbies, I'd get the most wicked hangovers and be a couch case the next day or sometimes even two days. Now I rarely have more than 2 stubbies if out socializing as I just don't want to feel that bad again.

I was recently on a 3 week course of 2 lots of strong antibiotics and didn't break the rules. I most certainly didn't enjoy going without my end of day drink.

Okay - I have to ask, what and how is a stubbie of beer measured?

Cathy, a stubbie is a 330 ml (maybe cup and half in imperial) bottle of beer. I have one sitting beside me as I type

This girl's earnt two of them tonight after working in the garden for about 3 whole hours off and on today - yay!!! Woohoo for humira and codeine

I'm loving this spring feeling and the weather is just glorious at present.

Midgimoo I love my Turkey and Cola straight from the bottle as well, taste so much better, & having one at the mo. Yes you certainly have earned a couple, after all that work, I love the spring, makes everything seem a whole lot better. Enjoy your bacon and eggs!I have one drink every almost every day. My RD says it's okay as long as I don't drink a whole bottle of wine.Gimpy-a-gogo2008-09-06 02:06:45[QUOTE=Lovie]Hello! Hopefully my situation is temporary; but I've got a feeling I'm not going to be having too many more carefree party nights like I did in the good old days after I get things back under control this time.

At the very least....I'm going to be taken off MTX all together. MTX to date has been the best medication I've ever been on.

I went 5....I guess 6 since until I had my first elevated liver panel. A slight reduction isn't helping it.

At the very least I'd suggest you guys choose your drinking opprotunities wisely.

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I am sorry to hear you will be taken off MTX. I have been on 10 mg. MTX for 2 years with great results.

You have been my inspiration...reading about how long you have been on the drug and what great results you've had has made me feel very comfortable.

Good Luck !!!!

Thanks Patti. I'm so glad to hear you're doing well on MTX. I haven't been taken off of MTX yet but they have dramacially reduced it and I'm afraid I won't do as well on a lower dose and so far the reduction isn't helping my liver. I'll just have to see. If I do have to be taken off of it I'm sure it's for the best and I'm confident that I'll find an alternative that will work well. I've been very fortunate to respond well to the majority of the treatments I've been on. Over the years I've learned to go with the flow.....what works today might not work tomorrow; but there are options.

Wishing you continued success!

I used to feel so alone on this board- I questioned the drinking thing and at the time all the members seemed to be abstainers and I felt like a lush.

I really, really miss the whole social aspect of drinking in my life. My life changed but my husband's and my friends did not. I don't get the whole non alcohol substitutes thing- it's not the taste...it's the buzz, it's the feeling of relaxation, it's the happy mood..it's just annoying to hang out with people when they are drinking and you are not. Nothing seems funny anymore.

With the success I've found on MTX I love it but I Hate it! And I hate RA for changing my life.

Wanttobe - You summed it up perfectly. For me it's not the buzz, however, it's the relaxation and being part of something. When I'm not drinking and everyone else is,

last night for an example, everyone is laughing hysterically and having a great time.

For me, not much was funny and I felt excluded. It's me, not them that is excluding me. I just feel so alone and on my own. Oh well, anyway, looks like we're not alone here. We get it.

Debrakay- it feels so good to be understood. Yes it's not them excluding us. Our lives have changed...theirs have not. I like the buzz too and that's why the non drinks hold nothing for me. I use to have a huge social cirlce years ago when I was married to my first husband and we'd always get together, drink have dinner and just hang out. It was a lot of fun. We did it every weekend....and oftern several nights a week too.

Now years later I'm married to someone else and we spend a lot more time with just the two of us. I don't miss the partying like I would if I was still in that exact same social situation. Actually; this life style suits me better as I've gotten older. My marriage is certainly better. Not sure if that's due to the fact that all I did with my first husband was party and hang out with a lot of other people or if my relationship with this man is just that much better. I tend to think the partying and hanging out with so many other peolpe and not consentrating on each other made things fall apart in my first marriage. It was both of us and I have never blamed any of our break up on drinking and still don't really; but we certainly didn't care much about being alone together.

I do understand what you mean though. No one wants to hang out with a bunch of drunks unless you are drunk too. A few drinks in a resturant at dinner is fine; but an all nighter with people that have had too much to drink to drive home isn't fun like it was when I was in my 20ties. Even before I stopped (or slowed down) drinking I think I sort of out grew that.

Well I guess we all we have to take up pot smoking!Actually- my social circle is not a bunch of drunks that pull all nighters...but have a few drinks and get feeling good.I didn't really mean it like that....but we sure stayed up alot later than I do now. I'm usually in my PJ's by 8 and comfy in my bed watching TV by 9 at the latest these days. I never use to do that in those years. Even after I was dx'ed with RA. We had fun though....and every once in a while I sort of miss that; but not so much any more.

I definately didn't mean to offend you or your social circle. Like I said; I've been there.

No offense taken Lovie- there WERE times in my life when I was like that too! But I'm more like you these days except I liked to have a martini at 9 PM to unwind.

And yeah the old, old days....they were some fun days...but it was necessary to have them end RA or no RA!