Vitamin D – What the research shows....... | Arthritis Information

Share
 

Vitamin D – Research shows it's not just for your bones

By Dr. Lorraine Parker

There has been lots of media buzz about Vitamin D lately. I became interested in Vitamin D about six years ago. I was reading about a doctor who noticed that although most of the elderly residents and staff at a long-term care facility got the flu that winter, the residents who were given vitamin D did not. My curiosity was piqued. Could vitamin D prevent flu symptoms?

For years, vitamin D was only recommended for strong bones because it increased your digestive system's ability to absorb calcium from the food you ate and deposit it in your bones. Recently, Dr. Michael F. Holick, a Vitamin D researcher at Boston University's Medical Center, identified links between a vitamin D deficiency and an increased risk of developing the following diseases:

{#xf0b7} Heart disease

{#xf0b7} High blood pressure

{#xf0b7} Autoimmune diseases such as Type 1 Diabetes and Multiple Sclerosis

{#xf0b7} Cancer especially of the colon, breast, ovary, or prostate gland

{#xf0b7} Weak and aching muscles and debilitating bone pain that is often misdiagnosed, by your doctor, as arthritis, fibromyalgia, or a vascular disease

{#xf0b7} Other research indicates that Vitamin D might enhance the immune system.

Anyone with a moderate Vitamin D deficiency can become severely deficient during the winter months. Although Vitamin D can be made in your body when the sun's UVB rays strike your skin, you have to live above 35 degrees latitude to reap this benefit during the winter months. And the few foods that naturally contain Vitamin D – liver and fatty fish such as herring, salmon, and sardines – aren't staples on the American dinner plate. Some food manufacturers are adding Vitamin D to milk, margarine, butter, orange juice, and breakfast cereals. Check the food label for this information.

Ask yourself the following questions to evaluate your current Vitamin D level:

1. Do you get 10 to 15 minutes of direct sun exposure between the hours of 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. three times a week?

2. Do you use a sunscreen rated SPF 8 or higher? Using these sunscreens reduces your skin's ability to produce Vitamin D by 95 percent.

3. Are you an older adult? Aging affects your skin's ability to make Vitamin D.

4. Do you have dark-colored skin? Dark-colored skin, or even a tan, reduces your skin's ability to make Vitamin D.

5. Do you live in an area of the country with heavy clouds or smog? These block the sun's rays.

6. Do you live north of Los Angeles or Atlanta (35 degrees latitude) from November to early March? You won't make enough vitamin D, because the sun's rays aren't strong enough during these months.

It's October. What's your vitamin D level? Ask your health care provider about the blood test that measures your body's vitamin D levels. If you're deficient, consider taking a vitamin D supplement to decrease your risk of developing one of the diseases linked to a vitamin D deficiency.

thanks Lynn!!!!Lynne, does anybody actually know if lack of vitamin D is a cause of all these conditions, or a side effect?
You're welcome Babs You must have an opinion, Lynne, you post a lot about Vitamin D. Which do you think it is, cause or effect?well.. Gimpy.. I have an opinion.  And here's a study:
 
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT00279461?recr=open&intr=vitamins&rank=7
 
Brief Title  Vitamin D Deficiency Causes Immune Dysfunction and Enables or Perpetuates the Development of Rheumatoid Arthritis
Official Title  Vitamin D Deficiency Causes Immune Dysfunction and Enables or Perpetuates the Development of Rheumatoid Arthritis: Clinical Trial and Investigations on Dendritic Cells
Brief Summary

Recent studies have demonstrated that subjects with low blood levels of vitamin D are at a higher risk of developing autoimmune diseases such as Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA). We are pursuing these studies to test the hypothesis that restoration of vitamin D levels ameliorates the manifestations of RA. We will test this hypothesis by inviting patients with RA to participate in a trial that examines the effects of oral vitamin D administration on the clinical expression of this disease. For this purpose, the participants of this trial will be asked to take an oral dose of 2,000 units of vitamin D daily for 6 months. We will examine the participant's joints, assess disease activity measures, and determine his/her blood levels of vitamin D before starting this treatment and periodically thereafter.

I am also of the belief that the RDA is low.  Way lower than what we really need.
 
I use to think it was leaky gut but my other vitamins were absorbed fine... VitD was very very low at four. 
 
I feel that if I can maintain a good level of Vit D.. and work w/ my meds, that I can get to remission.  I am hanging onto that hope... I don't believe that D alone can cure us.  But it is part of the equation.
It's a clinical trial to ascertain if D is beneficial.  I'm not aware of the researcher.  Every D researcher Lynn posts has conflicts of interest, most of them undisclosed in the study, from the Vitamin D Council. 
 
Remission is fabulous goal and we use steroids all the time to get there.
 
Hugs,
 
Pip
Babs,
 
Here are a few more articles for you to peruse
 
 
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/generalscience.html
Lynn492008-10-19 00:30:19Babs, that was interesting, but they haven't actually done the study yet so it doesn't show that low vitamin D is one of the factors helpong to cause RA, jut that they want to check out if it is and if high doses of Vitamin D will help RA (as opposed to just mask it). It will be interesting to see what they conclude when it's done in 2010.

Vitamin D May Prevent Arthritis

Research Links Vitamin D Deficiency to Rheumatoid Arthritis
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News

Jan. 9, 2004 -- Move over vitamins A, B, C and E. It is beginning to look like the long ignored vitamin D is every bit as important for preventing disease as you are.

New research makes the case that vitamin D helps protect older women against rheumatoid arthritis -- an autoimmune joint disorder of unknown cause. Recent studies have also linked deficiencies of vitamin D to other disorders such as certain cancers, heart disease, diabetes, and even unexplained pain but its role in human autoimmune disease is less clear.

The studies are far from conclusive, but researcher Michael Holick, MD, says there is every reason to believe that the supplement plays a much bigger role in disease prevention than has been recognized.

"Vitamin D has always been considered sort of a ho-hum vitamin," Holick tells WebMD. "People think they get plenty of it from the sun or in their diets, but these days that just isn't the case."

Vitamin D and Rheumatoid Arthritis

The latest research drew on data from the Iowa Women's Health Study, which followed almost 30,000 women, aged 55 to 69, for 11 years. Over the course of the study, the women were questioned about their eating habits, their use of nutritional supplements, and other health-related issues.

During the trial, 152 of the women developed rheumatoid arthritis. The investigators found that women whose diets were highest in vitamin D had the lowest incidence of rheumatoid arthritis.

Women who got less than 200 international units (IU) of vitamin D in their diets each day were 33% more likely to develop rheumatoid arthritis than women who got more, researcher Kenneth G. Saag, MD, tells WebMD. Saag is an associate professor of medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

The association remained significant even after the researchers adjusted for other suspected rheumatoid arthritis risk factors, such as smoking. And even though many foods with vitamin D are also high in calcium, the vitamin's protective effect seemed to be independent of how much calcium the women ate.

The findings are reported in the January 2004 issue of the journal Arthritis and Rheumatism.

http://www.webmd.com/rheumatoid-arthritis/news/20040109/vitamin-d-may-prevent-arthritis
The above article references Holick who is about the most 'controversial' D researcher.  He's the one who lost his dermatology chair at BU (Lynn says he resigned) but kept another chair so is still at BU.  His controversy was his research was paid for by the Tanning Lobby.
 
Its cause or effect.  Still, if feeling better is the end goal, then any steroid can help us short term.
 
Pip
Lynne,
 
Gimpy  and Pip and JSNM have constantly posted garbage studies. They just recently posted that 1993-94 study that they say proved the effectiveness of minocin in mild to severely moderate ra patients. As I showed, the American College of Rheumatology politely called the study fraudulant and corrupt. Why was is fraudulant and corrupt? The patients given minocin were also given nsaids and cortocosteroids along with other fraudulant factors. One name that was a part of this fraud is a name that Pip and Gimpy bring up constantly in their campaign to trash Wyeth and that person is Dr. Trentham , the man that is looking for funding for another minocin study. He is the one that trashes Wyeth for not funding another of his "studies". With his history of fraud, it seems only logical that Wyeth distance themselves from such a person or study. Can you imagine if Trentham once again uses fraudulant practices in this study and Wyeth were associated with it? It's a shame that Pip and Gimpy don't do as much background checking on the fake studies they post. If two crackheads wrote a fake study about minocin, they would be posting it constantly. They used to post parts of that Harris report as if it were a medical study, never telling anyone that it is a paid marketing study, a complete fraud but you post some noteworthy news, they have all the time in the world to rip it apart, they're nasty people. It has to be the minocin, they don't both drink the same water. In short Lynn, if you want to post anything of worth on this forum you will need to first run it thru the roadback and most importantly, run it thru the great minds of Pip and Gimpy. Be careful running thru their minds, there are so many one ways in there you may never get out. What ever you do, don't take the road called roadback, it's anything but the road back.
 
LEV
[QUOTE=levlarry]Lynne,
 
Gimpy  and Pip and JSNM have constantly posted garbage studies. They just recently posted that 1993-94 study that they say proved the effectiveness of minocin in mild to severely moderate ra patients. As I showed, the American College of Rheumatology politely called the study fraudulant and corrupt.
 
LEV
[/QUOTE]
 
Which study exactly did the ACR said was "fraudulant and corrupt." Oh King of Cut and Paste.
 
Pip
That Vitamin D article was interesting but it seemed really inconclusive to me. While it may be true that lack of vitamin D is one of the causes of chronic illness, the same evidence could be used to support the theory that chronic illnesses somehow use vitamin D to "feed themselves", so therfore people with these related illnesses are shown to be "low" on vitamin D.

Has anybody ever done a study which monitored the vitamin D levels of a healthy group of people vs. a group of chronically ill people where the vitamin D intake was the same in both groups?

I did feel great all summer when I was getting a lot of sun exposure, but as vitamin D is not actually a vitamin but a natural steroid that may have contributed to my feeling of well being.

I am not a proponent of one theory or another. I'm just saying I don't think anybody actually knows.Gimpy-a-gogo2008-10-20 16:43:39http://arthritis-research.com/content/10/5/R123
 
http://www.forbes.com/health/feeds/hscout/2007/06/08/hscout605382.html
Lynn492008-10-20 18:02:23there is a tight2close association... we've discussed this off board, Pip.. leaky gut?  remember that?????   but if Lynn posts it.. it's vile and untrue?  WTH?
 
I know it... but alas, I cannot do a study... It will come to pass that Vit D deficiency will cause RA.... in those predisposed to the condition.... because i also feel that it is genetic.
 
so.. how hard is it to take extra D?  to feel better.. to move better.. to be better?  If it works... WHO cares who did the damn study?
 
I just don't understand why there have to be two battling elements on this board... We are all here for ONE THING.... to get better...
 
but it seems that every time someone from the biologic side posts somethign..the AP side has to swoop in and try to beat it down... and vice versa. 
 
It truly disgusts me the way this board is... biologics vs AP.... repubs vs dems ... DONN vs the board!!!  same people on both sides for the most part... And, It's ridiculous... political stance has nothing to do w/ our disease!   Why can't you respect another's opinion?  sheesh!!  I feel like I"m in a forum full of teenagers who can't see anyone else's side but their own... tunnel vision much?
 
and yes, Giimpy, I want remission... I hate being diseased w/ this.... and if a natural steriod can give it to me..... I'll take it.. be thankful and be done ......  why wouldn't YOU?  many of you  take prednisone that can harm you at high doses long term ... why not take a little extra D??? 
 
I'm tired of reading crap in every damn thread.......  Don't we all have enough stressors in our lives??
 
I'm starting to feel as others do about this place  ...  
 
 
thank you, Lynne.. I enjoy your valuable information..   as alwaysYou're welcome Babs.  I try and post stuff that I think will help.............[QUOTE=Lynn49]Babs,
 
Here are a few more articles for you to peruse
 
 
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/generalscience.html
[/QUOTE]
 
great set of links.
 
I am going to start back on my regimen of extra D!! w/ calcium ...
 
I know I keep coming back to this but it's KNOWN to be involved in immune systems.. nerves, muscles, inflammation.. HELLO?  Vit D deficiency can cause bone deformations??
Vit D deficiency prevents adequate absorption of Calcium...
 
Have YOU (you know who I mean) had your Vit D tests done ???? 
 
I truly urge everyone on this web forum to have your vitamin D tests done...
 
(sorry, Lynne, I'm commandeering your band wagon)
Feel Free to commandeer my band wagon anytime   Glad you liked the links.......It's pretty interesting that this disagreement about Vit. D. has been going on for the last 8 years or so.  The first time I was put on D was by my cardiologist/pulmonologist 8 years ago.  Combo of Vit. D., folic, magnesium for a cardiac issue.  My RD suggested that I might consider increasing the D but I told him I was comfortable at the present dose and I get plenty of sunshine.  I had a low D level several years ago and increased the dosage. My levels are normal now and I'm in clinical remission so I don't plan on changing any of my meds including D. The balance is too precarious.  I guess the point is, this controversy has been going on for a long time and it's still not resolved to the complete satisfaction of everyone.  But in this instance I'm going to err on the side of science and not the pharma co.   I'm still alive, doing well, 8 years after starting Vit. D.    Lindy Thanks Lindy!  You're one of my inspirations on here.... [QUOTE=babs10] there is a tight2close association... we've discussed this off board, Pip.. leaky gut?  remember that?????   but if Lynn posts it.. it's vile and untrue?  WTH?


















[/QUOTE]

??? First you start by saying "why can't we all get along?", then in the next breath you imply I don't want you to take vitamin D or be in remission?

I've never said anything even remotely close to that.

All I said was I hadn't seen anything that convinced me vitamin D was preventative. It is possible it feeds disease while repressing symptoms so that taking it is in the long run harmful. I said I didn't know either way.

Pretending to be neutral when you're not is incredibly passive aggressive, you know. There is a lot of that on this board as well, so you're no better than those you chastise.Babs,
 
Welcome to the passive, aggressive club

I  meant my post EXACTLY as it was worded....

I won't be attacked or have  my words questioned and remain quiet.  I am pretty fed up w/ the childish games on here... and I've remained quiet and complacent... but it's gotten me ... and I'm finished w/ being quiet... I don't attack.. but I will stand up for others who are.. when they've done nothing to warrant it...

Now, you can take VitD or not.. I could care less... ALL I said was, it seems to be a simple solution ...  IF you have documentation that shows it feeds disease while suppressing discomfort.. perhaps you should share that with those of us who are interested.???

I'm not telling anyone to be quiet. Nor was I trying to convince anyone not to take vitamin D. All I said was it seems to me the evidence is inconclusive.

From my point of view it seemed like I was just asking some simple questions and the next thing I know I'm being attacked by you just because you didn't like the questions I was asking. From my point of view it's YOU trying to bully me into "shutting up". "I won't be attacked or have my words questioned and remain quiet" Is not taking everything you say, your opinions as automatically right, somehow "attacking you"? From my point of view it's YOU playing games. Guess what, I'm not going to shut up because you're a bully. It goes both ways you know.

(It's like Lynne's little tag line. At one point I decided not to post at AI anymore, but I read Lynne's tagline and I though,"yeah". Thanks, Lynne, for inspiring me to stay!) I won't be bullied by you, babs.

You don't like the dynamics on this site? Stop perpetuating them. Before you decided to go into attack mode, show me one thing I said to you that was the least bit aggressive?

And since you ask, here's some stuff from that other theory. I'm not saying I'm convinced by this either,I'm just saying I don't know. And for the record, that's all I've said on this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpocxjKJxagI'm not repeating myself, Gimpy  Re-read my post.  do as you wish .. makes me no matter no mind.
 
My comments about how things are on these threads weren't necessarily directed AT you...
 
but you feel defensive? 
 
Can't see your youtube post from work.. If I remember to ... I'll check it out later.
Yes, Babs, I have had all 4 of the D tests done.  I'm low.  I'm also not doing anything about it and am still heading for remission.  Nobody is saying you can't do D.  It's a steroid which is why I'm not using it because in my OPINION, it's only covering the disease process.  I'm trying to make my body get to remission by taking back the nutrients robbed from the cells. 
 
And frankly, I don't see how questioning where the financing is coming from is not a valid point in weighing the objectivity of the study.  What do you expect the Vitamin D council, who's main purpose is to support the use of vitimin D and is a group of D manufacturer's, to say?  Don't use D?  Not going to happen.  I never even knew there was a Tanning Lobby before I researched 'conflict of interest and D' but it makes sense to me they would align with the D Council.   What we need is some other group, not affiliated with them, to agree with their findings.  So, far, that hasn't happened.
 
As for leaky gut - yes, I think it's a strong correlation and yes, that's one of the reasons I'm not doing D. 
 
Since when is asking a simple question supposed to be 'attacking'?  How do we learn to heal when we don't have boths sides of a question?
 
My question is now this - what about this is upsetting you so much?  Is it because you might possibly be chosing the wrong road for your recovery?  This reaction is a personal one and not related to the research.  Lynn posts this 'science' constantly and mostly I ignore it because I think its the wrong road for me.  She's never going to agree with my road.  Notice she and I don't go at it - it's the people that got upset about the questions that did.
 
So, let's make this personal.  If you choose D and you heal, is that a problem?  Why? If you choose D and you don't, is that a problem?  Why?  The only reason you would be upset in that last scenario is if you blamed yourself for not taking the 'no D' path. 
 
And is this the same reason for the Anti-AP group?  Think about it, we're not saying you 'have to' do Minocin.  All we're saying is that its an option.  So why do some people get their knickers in a twist about it?  Something about AP scares them personally, not generally, but personally.  And that tells me they're not listening to that little voice inside their head that says 'something about this rings true'. 
 
All we're saying is make a decision and go for it.
 
I have not made a decision, I'm still on the fence because both sides make valid points.  Nor do I get upset when Lynn posts this stuff.  Mostly I ignore it because its tainted and doesn't lead me to making a decision.
 
More 'no D' info - http://bacteriality.com/
 
Pip
Babs,
 
I do credit the Vitamin D for helping me get better and for ending the terrible muscular aches and weakness I had.   After doing much research. I believe the combo of prednisone and extremely low Vitamin D levels ( RD said they were the lowest he had ever seen) caused my hip fracture.  Two ortho's and my RD agree with that assessment.
 
Certain posters are going to criticize any research that I post about Vitamin D.  That makes not a wit of difference to me......I know what I believe and why I believe it and in my opinion,  the scientific evidence backs it up.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited because my phone keeps ringing.......
 
Lynn492008-10-21 08:19:45another study to be conducted:
 
 
http://www.jrheum.com/abstracts/abstracts05/76/11.html  D-hormone [1,25(OH)2 D3] is an important immune system regulator that has been shown to inhibit development of autoimmune diseases including experimental inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), multiple sclerosis (MS), and type 1 diabetes. J Rheumatol 2005 September;32 Suppl 76:11-20.
 
http://lup.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/1/6  Patients with autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupus erythematosus show low 25-OH vitamin D serum levels. (Sage Journals) Lupus, Vol. 17, No. 1, 6-10 (2008).
 
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/580514  Objectives: A role for vitamin D in the pathogenesis of autoimmune and inflammatory diseases is emerging. We undertook an audit of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD) investigation and treatment in rheumatology outpatients.
Methods: Serum 25OHD requests were matched to electronic medical records from rheumatology and metabolic bone clinics (April 2006-March 2007). Data were analysed separately for two groups, 'Documented osteoporosis/osteopaenia' (Group 1) and 'General rheumatology outpatients' (Group 2, sub-divided by diagnosis). Hypovitaminosis D was defined by 25OHD levels <50 nmol/l. Values were compared with healthy adults to calculate geometric z-scores.
Results: A total of 263 patients were included (Group 1, n =122; Group 2, n = 141) with an overall median 25OHD of 44 nmol/l. The 25OHD level among general rheumatology patients (median 39 nmol/l, mean z score -1.2, was statistically significantly lower than among osteoporotic/osteopaenic patients (median 49 nmol/l, mean z score of -0.9, p < 0.05 for the difference). 25OHD was lower in inflammatory arthritis and chronic pain/fibromyalgiathan in other groups. Prescribing was recorded in 100 in Group 1 (of whom 95% were prescribed calcium/800 IU cholecalciferol) and 83 in Group 2 (91% calcium/800 IU). Only 31% of the patients with 25OHD <50 nmol/l would have been identified using general guidelines for screening patients at 'high risk' of hypovitaminosis D.
Conclusions: Improved guidelines for managing hypovitaminosis D in rheumatology patients are needed. We found a high prevalence of hypovitaminosis D among secondary care patients in rheumatology and widespread supplementation with 800 IU cholecalciferol. Substantially reduced levels of serum 25OHD were identified among patients with inflammatory arthritis and chronic pain.
 
I've read alot about Vit D.  I can't find anything detrimental .. even if I google Bad Vit D.. it tells me about deficiency being bad.
 
This is an interesting article on Vit D....  VERYinformative from an MD's POV.  http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller25.html and he backs his statements w/ medical journal articles.
 
So, it can ease our pain and inflammation.. it's a preventative to alot of cancers.. can curb cardiovascular disease....MS is an autoimmune disease, where the body’s immune system attacks and destroys its own cells that afflicts people with low vitamin D levels!!!
 
In order to enjoy optimal health, we should maintain a vitamin D blood level of ≥50–99 ng/ml   --- where is your level????
 
I am, like Lynne, and LinB.. passionate about educating our members about Vit D deficiency.  I  know I feel loads better since I began a regimen including additional Vit D than what the FDA states we need..... and my Endo tests me each 6 month interval...my levels are returning to optimum.... 
 
It's

Pip.. I do not think I'm taking the wrong road for recovery... nor have I made any insinuance about your choices... 

this is a ridiculous statement:  So, let's make this personal.  If you choose D and you heal, is that a problem?  Why? If you choose D and you don't, is that a problem?  Why?  The only reason you would be upset in that last scenario is if you blamed yourself for not taking the 'no D' path
 
I feel strongly about this and though I don't need anyone's support or beliefs.. I want to be sure that those who should hear.. do..
 
as far as AP....  I've never said it isn't an option for anyone... you know that.  But, I've said it's not my option.  You can't have this disease as long as I have and feel you have "time" to work on a solution that requires time.
 
Regarding AP you said:  All we're saying is make a decision and go for it.   That's what I'm saying about Vit D.  do it.
Babs -
 
My level is low, I don't convert D correctly as shown on ALL 4 D tests.  Did you have all 4 D tests run?  How is your conversion rate?  Because if you can't even answer that question, you are not in a position to answer whether on not D can help or hurt you.  Or others. 
 
Glad you feel so strongly about the research.  However some scientists are starting to question the recent research. 
 
This guy comes out for D - am not sure where he is in the 'paid for' category.  However, if you really read this study, he's saying 'yes, there's problems with D intoxication' and lists some of the studies that have been written about how this could be toxic for some.  I'm sure you will read all of the studies in it, after you view the video when you get home, because you want to be informed.  Links to the cites are provided at the bottom, I believe, or you can run a search on Pubmed for the authors.  I mean, knowledge is power, right?
 
Here is something that was published at the Karolina Institute which Nikkilynn likes to post from all the time.  This time she didn't.
 
 
Also, I take this back - Vieth, listed above, is highly suspect.  He's bought and sold.  MY OPINION.
 
 
And here is a commentary about a blog - Dr. Len’s Cancer Blog” - a website written by Dr. Len Lichtenfeld, Deputy Chief Medical Officer for the national office of the American Cancer Society - explaining why they are refusing to advocate raising the D levels in America when Canada recenly did. 
 
 
Now get this - this was the top 2 sites for a Google search for ""vitamin D" conflict of interest raise government levels".  Run it yourself and while I'm sure you will find pro-D stuff in there - you will definitely find more 'need more info' threads.
 
Pip
[QUOTE=babs10] 
I feel strongly about this and though I don't need anyone's support or beliefs.. I want to be sure that those who should hear.. do..
 
[/QUOTE]
 
Hear what?  That possibly they could get worse if the paid for research is proven to be wrong?  That they can easily, and cheaply, get the 4 D tests themselves and make an relatively easy educated decision? 
 
You did, right?  You know your conversion ratio, right?
 
Pip
As a matter of fact, I do have my conversion ratio (I am at work and don't have access right now) ... when we were talking leaky gut.. I PULLED all my original tests... not only did I have tons done... but I had 24 hour urine collection to be sure that I was using the D to help me absorb calcium and phosphorus.  I also had thyroid levels and all my hormones tested.  I saw a very informed Endocrinologist who is following my progresses with a phone call every three months and 6 months visit and testing.....
 
so.. since you have malabsorption... what are you doing about that?  what is the cause?  You are looking into it further aren't you?
No, I'm not looking into it further right now.  I've seen a lot of research on the car-jacking abilities of microbes in relation to the HPA axis hormones so what I've chosen to do is supplement the big 3 (potassium, magnesium and calcium) and hope for the best.  I'm kind of questioning the need for calcium because of the nanobacteria's ability to utilize that to create a hard shell that makes them impervious to being killed.  Since I have DDD starting in my back, and nanobacteria have been linked to calcium and DDD, I'm a bit hesitant to protect them in any way.  But, again, the whole nanobacteria question is even more cutting edge than AP so I'm not yet comfortable saying 'no calcium'. 
 
I intend to research more it but was given incredibly strong instructions by my new Geek Angel to NOT take in any more research until I arrange what I have to find it again.  I couldn't find the links I just posted on my own hard drive so ran another search and resent it to myself with better tags.  She sent me home on Sunday with step by step instructions on how to start this and a list of stuff for hubby to install or purchase.  I'm gonna be in trouble for this as she knows what's here already.  :-)
 
We know I think the cause is bacterial.  My worry is that if I supplement D, yes, I'll feel better, but they get more of an upper hand or can possibly regroup. 
 
My whole concern is cause or effect?  Chicken or egg?
 
And this is going to take a TON of research.  It doesn't help that the MP people don't answer questions about their research. 
 
Hugs,
 
Pip
PS - if you get your ratios, I'll get mine and we'll compare.  I have those in a medical file.
you betcha! 
 
babs this one and her evil twin don't read other peoples post but just twist the statements and then cry that everyone else is attacking. there's no room for other views with these two, they just try to wear everyone down lol
[QUOTE=babs10]


[/QUOTE]

Well, I suppose I would think that because you wrote:
"and yes, Giimpy, I want remission... I hate being diseased w/ this.... and if a natural steriod can give it to me..... I'll take it.. be thankful and be done ...... why wouldn't YOU? many of you take prednisone that can harm you at high doses long term ... why not take a little extra D??? "

When things are prefaced with my name I always make that silly mistake of thinking they're directed at me.

And for the last time, where did anyone suggest you stop taking it? You're going on about something that never happened to try and justify your bullying behaviour.



mabus, people on AP take probiotics, and some of them also use nystatin and oil of oregano, so you can stop worrying about candida.Read above.. Pip and I can discuss this like adults without finger pointing..
 
I wasn't directing AT you.. but commenting on your post... BIG difference, dear.
 
I am far and not a bully.  and you can't make it so by saying it. ... no matter how hard you try.
 
LinB and Lynne being in clinical remission w/ their meds and Vitamin D... is a good start for me...
 
and you can hang around til 2010 for the results of that study I posted about...
 
but I won't be... I'll be skiiing and snorkeling and swimming and hiking and biking in my remission  so you take ap one day - kills friendly bacteria
probiotics to replenish damage and then take ap to kill off again
sounds like you are just going round in a circle eh
[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]


mabus, people on AP take probiotics, and some of them also use nystatin and oil of oregano, so you can stop worrying about candida.[/QUOTE]


And you also take 2 DMARDS in addition to minocylcine!!!! [QUOTE=babs10]not me, Henrietta..  edit my name out of there 
The question is...why don't we question more?  If Lindy has a good experience, more power to her.  It's the non-questioning that bothers me. 
 
Pip
 
Edited to say Lindy - not saying you're not questioning, just questioning in general.  KWIM?
Pip!2008-10-21 13:11:10Mabus, henrietta, and babs; classy.

Well, I have now read all the links on this blog, and I must say it was very interesting, especially this passage which refers to one of the studies Lynne posted;

"In one letter, three scientists in Texas pointed out a number of issues, not the least of which being an Iowa study which suggested that when breast cancer was looked at there was indeed a fall in cancer numbers for the first five years when a vitamin D supplement was taken. But this balanced out at 10 years and there actually seemed to be more breast cancers among women taking vitamin D after 15 years."

I also found the article about vitamin D, TH-1 diseases and cognitive ability particularly interesting.

Of course, like every article states, more research is needed.


Oh, and I also found this Science Daily article in my bookmarks (more of that stuff you asked for Babs. even though you're too busy to read it perhaps you will bookmark it and peruse it another day ):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080125223302.htm
Vitamin D Deficiency Study Raises New Questions about Disease and Supplements

ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2008) — Low blood levels of vitamin D have long been associated with disease, and the assumption has been that vitamin D supplements may protect against disease. However, this new research demonstrates that ingested vitamin D is immunosuppressive and that low blood levels of vitamin D may be actually a result of the disease process. Supplementation may make the disease worse.

Read the rest at the above link.

Do you have any corroborating studies.... Lynn492008-10-21 14:20:03I'm unclear on which study you would like to see corroborated.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080125223302.htm
Vitamin D Deficiency Study Raises New Questions about Disease and SupplementsLynne, I know some exsist but I don't have any handy. I'm just starting to look into this stuff in the past few days (really, I'm not on one "side" or the other), so I have so far only scratched the surface. I will definitely post them as I find interesting corroborating ones.Fair enough.......Dang, I wasn't aware there was such a controversy over vit d.  I had skipped a lot of posts on the subject, thinking they didn't apply to me, but now my RA doc prescribed vit d, at a dose that has raised my eyebrows, so I'll be paying more attention, and trying to read more, though all these health issues (I've been having eye problems too lately) can get overwhelming, so just wanna say thanks to all points of views, though try not to get too personal and riled up, none of us need the extra stress, beee kind.
 
  
I have a question about absorption from the sun. A friend of mine told me last weekend that her level was 4. She took vit D for a very short time because her doctor told her that the time it takes her to walk out to her car and back into the house is enough vitamin D for the day. Does this sound right? No, not really but again, like GoGo, I'm just scratching the surface.  I'm under the impression that natural D is the best way to go and thats for something like 15 minutes a day.  Maybe it's supposed to be a week but that just seems low to me.
 
Sorry, no help with the amount but I can say that everything I've read so far says natural D somehow can't be toxic.  I have no idea why.  The supps seem to be the 'possible' problem.
 
Pip
 A fair-skinned person can manufacture 15,000 IU or more of vitamin D in as little as 30 minutes of optimal sun exposure(minus sunscreen)and skip the sun glasses, the light needs to enter thru the eyesI wonder how so many of us got this low? Is it not enough sun, poor absorption, diet low in D, a disease process? Maybe a combination.Except they add D to everything now.  Keep an eye on labels.  It's amazing.  It's one of the reasons I'm thinking it's possibly a reason for the 'supposed' jump in AI diseases. 
 
Of course, you can't prove that.
 
Pip
somewhere I read that you have to have like 20,000 ounces of Vit D fortified OJ to get your daily ......
 
 
[QUOTE=lorster]I wonder how so many of us got this low? Is it not enough sun, poor absorption, diet low in D, a disease process? Maybe a combination.[/QUOTE]
 
I think it's a combo of lack of sunlight (does anyone not use sunscreen)  As you get older, it becomes tougher for you body to metabolize Vitamin D and while Vitamin D is added to a lot of food products, the recommended IU is still way to low........That however is about to change
A review study (one that summarizes the evidence from a number of other studies) published in the July 2006 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that the currently recommended daily intakes of 200 and 600 IU of vitamin D for younger and older adults, respectively, were insufficient to provide the blood levels of vitamin D needed for bone mineral density, lower-extremity function, dental health, and to lessen risk of falls, fractures, and colorectal cancer.

Adequate blood levels of vitamin D to provide for these health needs begin at 75 nmol/L. Blood levels of vitamin D between 90 and 100 nmol/L are optimal.A daily intake for all adults of >/=1000 IU vitamin D (cholecalciferol)/d is needed to bring vitamin D concentrations in no less than 50% of the population up to 75 nmol/L. If you are concerned about your vitamin D status, ask your doctor to check your blood levels of 25(OH)D3. The major circulating form of vitamin D in the blood, this form of the vitamin is the true barometer of vitamin D status.

FYI, my level at first testing was 4. 

Thanks for info........It's more good stuff Hi Babs -
 
This is precisely why I can't understand the D info.  This artlicle refers to a study but doesn't annotate so you don't have any idea who the real author of this article is or where he got his info.  The cites on the bottom do not appear to go in any order.
 
Pip

Copyright ArthritisInsight.com