US Doctors Prescribe Placebos?? | Arthritis Information

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Half of U.S. doctors often prescribe placebos
Many aren’t honest with their patients about the treatments, study finds
Taken from MSNBC today:    
Those pills your doctor prescribed? They may be placebos. A new study found that half of the doctors in the U.S. prescribe placebos regularly without telling their patients.
LONDON - About half of American doctors in a new survey say they regularly give patients placebo treatments — usually drugs or vitamins that won't really help their condition.
And many of these doctors are not honest with their patients about what they are doing, the survey found.
That contradicts advice from the American Medical Association, which recommends doctors use treatments with the full knowledge of their patients.
"It's a disturbing finding," said Franklin G. Miller, director of the research ethics program at the U.S. National Institutes Health and one of the study authors. "There is an element of deception here which is contrary to the principle of informed consent."
The study was being published online in Friday's issue of BMJ, formerly the British Medical Journal.
Placebos as defined in the survey went beyond the typical sugar pill commonly used in medical studies. A placebo was any treatment that wouldn't necessarily help the patient.
Scientists have long known of the "placebo effect," in which patients given a fake or ineffective treatment often improve anyway, simply because they expected to get better.
"Doctors may be under a lot of pressure to help their patients, but this is not an acceptable shortcut," said Irving Kirsch, a professor of psychology at the University of Hull in Britain who has studied the use of placebos.
‘Potentially beneficial medication’
Researchers at the NIH sent surveys to a random sample of 1,200 internists and rheumatologists — doctors who treat arthritis and other joint problems. They received 679 responses. Of those doctors, 62 percent believed that using a placebo treatment was ethically acceptable.   Doctors prescribe placebos regularly
Oct. 23: An NIH survey reveals that 50 percent of doctors admit to regularly prescribing vitamins or sugar pills that won’t really help.
Half the doctors reported using placebos several times a month, nearly 70 percent of those described the treatment to their patients as "a potentially beneficial medicine not typically used for your condition." Only 5 percent of doctors explicitly called it a placebo treatment.
Most doctors used actual medicines as a placebo treatment: 41 percent used painkillers, 38 percent used vitamins, 13 percent used antibiotics, 13 percent used sedatives, 3 percent used saline injections, and 2 percent used sugar pills.
In the survey, doctors were asked if they would recommend a sugar pill for patients with chronic pain if it had been shown to be more effective than no treatment. Nearly 60 percent said they would.
Smaller studies done elsewhere, including Britain, Denmark and Sweden, have found similar results.
Jon Tilburt, the lead author of the U.S. study, who is with NIH's bioethics department, said he believes the doctors surveyed were representative of internists and rheumatologists across the U.S. No statistical work was done to establish whether the survey results would apply to other medical specialists, such as pediatricians or surgeons.
The research was paid for by NIH's bioethics department and the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine.
The authors said most doctors probably reasoned that doing something was better than doing nothing.

Vote: Should doctors be honest about placebos?
Undermining effect?
In some cases, placebos were given to patients with conditions such as chronic fatigue syndrome. Doctors also gave antibiotics to patients with viral bronchitis, knowing full well that a virus is impervious to antibiotics, which fight bacteria. Experts believe overuse of antibiotics promotes the development of drug-resistant strains of bacteria.
Some doctors believe placebos are a good treatment in certain situations, as long as patients are told what they are being given. Dr. Walter Brown, a professor of psychiatry at Brown and Tufts universities, said people with insomnia, depression or high blood pressure often respond well to placebo treatments.
"You could tell those patients that this is something that doesn't have any medicine in it but has been shown to work in people with your condition," he suggested.
However, experts don't know if the placebo effect would be undermined if patients were explicitly told they were getting a dummy pill.
Brown said that while he hasn't prescribed sugar pills, he has given people with anxiety problems pills that had extremely low doses of medication. "The dose was so low that whatever effect the patients were getting was probably a placebo effect," he said.
Kirsch, the psychologist, said it might be possible to get the psychological impact without using a fake pill. "If doctors just spent more time with their patients so they felt more reassured, that might help," he said.
Some patients who had just seen their doctors at a clinic in London said the truth was paramount.
"I would feel very cheated if I was given a placebo," said Ruth Schachter, an 86-year-old Londoner with skin cancer. "I like to have my eyes wide open, even if it's bad news," she said. "If I'm given something without being warned what it is, I certainly would not trust the doctor again."
© 2008 The Associated Press.

lorster2008-10-23 18:48:43Doesn't everyone google their meds when prescribed?? 

but seriously.. this is a horrible practice....
so, they are basically saying alot of their patients are head cases???????
babs...i don't think this happens where i live but I could be wrong. The weird part of this is...what med is prescribed? Do pharmacies actually fill the placebo? Or are they in the form of samples. I'm going to ask or hospitalist about this. I am trying to work out just how Drs can prescribe placebos and not have at least MOST of their patients discover that, precisely because of what Babs said. Dont people google their meds? I know I do and most others with a computer probably do also.
What Pharmacist would condone this pratice I wonder. I mean to say...is  the Dr going to pretend to give someone Prozac ( for eg)  but instructs the Pharmacist to put sugar pills in the bottle labelled Prozac? I know that if I were given a drug with a name I had never heard of I would be finding out about it.
And what about lawsuits? Surely if it turned out that someone was REALLY ill and a Dr decided they werent and supplied placebos, they are leaving themselves open for a whole heap of trouble?
 
Its all a little baffling to me at least!
 
Lyn 
 
ETA: .....SNAP Lorster!! lolol ....Exactly.
 
 
LyndeeNZ2008-10-23 22:49:15The article Lorster (and Bob_h71) posted says :

Most doctors used actual medicines as a placebo treatment: 41 percent used painkillers, 38 percent used vitamins, 13 percent used antibiotics, 13 percent used sedatives, 3 percent used saline injections, and 2 percent used sugar pill
Gimpy...OK I had not fully taken that info onboard.
 
However, this hasn't changed a thing...
 
Sedatives and antibiotics are used as placebos by some Drs??  Yowser! I dont know whats blardy worse! A sugar pill for someone who is convinced they are depressed (and quite possibly are...Drs are NOT infallible) or a dose of antib's or sedatives!
A truthful assessment from a supposed professional would be the order of the day surely.  After all, just WHAT does the Hyppocratic  ( sp) Oath stand for?
 
The mind boggles. 
 
All professional peeps here, lets go give our customers ( because that is what a Dr's patient is..a customer) the equivalent of something like calves liver wrapped in  cabbage leaves and we will call it Beef Wellington and hope they dont notice.  Id rather tell them we are out of the Wellington and suggest something else! Then hold your hand out for the money with a clear conscience.
 
Truth needs to reign and I will now descend from my high  horse. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
LyndeeNZ2008-10-24 02:41:07I like the part that they surveyed rheumatologists and internists - this speaks volumes.  They know where the problem lies.  And fibromyalgia is still just made up by a druggie woman who doesn't deserve proper medication for her hypochondriac condition.    [QUOTE=justsaynoemore]I like the part that they surveyed rheumatologists and internists - this speaks volumes.  They know where the problem lies.    [/QUOTE]

I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one troubled by this study!  I almost choked on my Pop Tart this a.m.!  Say it isn't so!!!!!!!

Using real meds as placebos!  I guess if it doesn't cause nausea, vomiting, constipation, drowsiness, difficulty concentrating, frequent urination, etc., patients who still don't google would figure it out, too, right?

Rheums are on there because they do not know the cause of any conditions they treat, except gout.  Makes sense they have to fake it more, doesn't it?

I'm also thinking about how studies of some biologics in children don't get the results they do in adults.  Makes sense that there would be no placebo effect for a child given an infusion or injection, because that is traumatic and they can't comprehend the cause and effect like an adult would.  I think an adult wold anticipate some relief after the procedure and a child would just be glad it was over.
This really boggles the mind.  A neurologist prescribed B12 injections to help with the peripheral neuropathy that she diagnosed.  My PCP says they were worthless but agreed to give me the shots.  The endo doc I am seeing now says my levels of B12 have risen but  suggests I continue the shots.  Am I being given a placebo?  I hope not.
What about the docs who automatically prescribe antibiotics whenever someone appears to have a "cold" or sore throat?  Totally unecessary in most cases, isn't  it?
Some doc hand out a script to whomever shows up with a complaint of any kind.  Then if patient doesn't recover and returns, doc may look into it further. Is some of this a result of us not waiting a few days to see if the problem resolves itself on it's own without medical intervention?  Lots of questions but no definitive answers when each case is different.
Ann 
[QUOTE=ann1026]This really boggles the mind.  A neurologist prescribed B12 injections to help with the peripheral neuropathy that she diagnosed.  My PCP says they were worthless but agreed to give me the shots.  The endo doc I am seeing now says my levels of B12 have risen but  suggests I continue the shots.  Am I being given a placebo?  I hope not. I guess I always thought that a placebo was a sugar pill. And treating with an antibiotic, sedatives, painkillers is not really considered a placebo, but rather just treating the condition wrong. Which is so wrong. And saline injections and sugar pills. We are not allowed to do that where I work. It would be illegal for me to tell a patient I am giving them an injection of morphine and then giving saline. That is wrong. Unethical to say the least and to think a doctor can do this is beyond me. When a patient goes to a doctor and whips out over a hundred bucks for the appointment, I would think that patient would deserve more than a sugar pill. The article says in a lot of cases it's the "right" medicine, but just given at such low doses it would be ineffectual if not for the placebo effect.

Unlike most on here this doesn't outrage me. At least it's evidence of doctors wanting to use less medicine rather than more, and anything that harnesses the incredible power of the mind is A-OK in my books. I admit there is an ethical dilemma, though. You should not fool the patient but if you tell them it's a placebo it probably won't work. I liked the solution of telling them "this isn't medicine but some people have reported it helped them".ann1026
My RD says B12 shots are a placebo. My GP found my levels to be low and prescribed a supplement because I was complaining about fatigue. I had been on them for a month and was still fatigued by the time I saw my RD.
My mom gets b12 shots 1 x per month and says they make her feel GREAT! So I asked him for one. That's when he refused and told me it was a placebo. He says that red vial of liquid has a big impact on someone's mental outlook but the shot does nothing really. He refused. He said he wished he could give me a sugar pill instead of MTX  to help my RA too.
[QUOTE=wanttobeRAfree]ann1026 Also the walk-in doctor I saw the other day told me he hadn't taken an antibiotic in 30 years (yay for you) but that he'd give me a scrip for antibiotics because it makes people feel better to have the scrip.  I don't even know what to think about that guy, he was the one who gave me a magic mouthwash scrip even though I didn't have a sore throat.  It was a truly bizarre experience.Katie, sometimes I think doctors feel obligated to give a patient a prescription no matter what that prescription is because the patient came in and paid to be seen so they expect something and it is usually in the form of a prescription. Simple advice with nothing else does not seem to cut it with some patients. But some of us actually go in and want something that will work to get rid of what ails us. I have a sinus infection and went in yesterday. She gave me a Z pak and a recipe for the saline stuff you put in a netty pot SP? I will not take the zpak unless the saline irrigation does not work. But maybe having the z pak on my counter will be like a placebo...it is a good thought, lol. If my RH is giving me a placebo instead of my remicade, then there a ,000 a month fraud against my insurance company.  same goes for the Pharmacy that takes my co-pay for of sugar pills.I have had great results from regular use of a neti pot, recommended by my doctor a few years back when I was dealing with constant sinus infections.  You can get premeasured buffered saline packets (salt and baking soda) or mix up your own at home with kosher salt and regular baking soda.  I prefer the premeasured packets, because if you mess up the measurements (either too much or too little) it can really hurt like hell!  The premeasured packets are available at most drugstores - Sinucleanse and NeilMed are two brands I use. Also on a technicality.  If a Dr tells the patient that he is giving him a placebo, then its no longer a placebo since they know what they are getting."Take This Placebo and Call Me in the Morning"
http://fardj.prblogs.org/2008/10/24/take-this-placebo-call-me-in-the-morning/

"Personally, this study confirmed what I have always believed: placebos are big business.  I’m just waiting for the “Placebo Manufacturers of America” to convene a conference."

LOL.
"While Real Doctors Prescribe Placebos, Fake Docs on TV Prescribe Drugs Off-label"
http://pharmamkting.blogspot.com/2008/10/while-real-doctors-prescribe-placebos.html




Suzanne2008-10-24 13:10:09Got a page not found error for the last Suzanne, can you repost?
 
Pip
Try this because that one keeps coming up the same:
http://trusted.md/feed/items/system/2008/10/24/while_real_doctors_prescribe_placebos_fake_docs_on_tv_prescribe_drugs_off_label


Well, medical doctors are kind of limited - you go see them and what choices do they have - a script or surgery.  That's the practice of medicine. 
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