Hmmm...DebraKay and some people with Rheumatoid arthritis can't work because of their disability so what should myself and my six year old do...live on the streets...because I should be ashamed that I can't work and I should be entitled to help. Sorry but there are also tons of people who need our compassion and I can guarantee that someday all of us will need that.
Governments purpose is to meet the needs of 'the people', not to be another multinational corporation hoarding profits while it's workers can't afford health care and food to feed their children.
If government doesn't meet the people's needs then it is not doing it's job. That money is for being spread around the nations population where it is needed most.
I have to say I was incredibly impressed with McCain's concession speech...it was an example of graciousness. Many of us could look to him with that speech as a way to treat others and also a way to face defeat with the upmost dignity. He was brilliant and by the end of it, especially when he silenced the boos, I had an amazing amount of respect for him.
Many of us here could learn to treat others with that same graciousness, dignity and respect. Well done, McCain.
Cordy...... woohoo you are back, how are you feeling my darling, I am sure you are feeling pretty emotional and raw, I figured I would wait to speak to you when you are ready as losing someone so loved and close to us is something one cannot describe the feelings of, until it has happened to them. Please know you are in my prayers and little Nevey too, love Janie.XX
[QUOTE=Dalmatinka][QUOTE=Linncn]I know that's a joke, but it's so close to true. This election is heartbreaking to me. It's America. Flushed.[/QUOTE]
Why flushed? Why dont you give the man a chance? See what he can do?
My bet is America will be better than ever, we made the best choice.
[/QUOTE]
Well, because we already know what he will do and we already know what he believes in.
Cordy, I don't think Debrakay was talking about people like you. Unless you are syaing that you're lazy and won't work? Their is a HUGE difference between "can't" and "won't". And the "won't s" are rejoicing here today believe me. Heck, maybe I'll join them. Why work hard just so Obama can reach into my pocket and help himself?
Link, I think it is easy to throw stones from glass houses when you have never been in the situation yourself.
Who decides who is LAZY? Often comments like this go with generalisations i.e. Mexicans are lazy, single mothers are lazy etc etc. You do see my point.
I just don't believe that all people who are NOT like ourselves are necessarily bad, horrible, lazy etc.
I think when you have a very secure materialistic position in life because you are blessed, it is easy to see people who struggle and are not in the same situation as negative somehow.
I am poor. I am a single parent. Those things do not make me a less valuable human being than you or DebraKay.
All I am saying is let's actually be willing to have McCain's dignity. He did not get up there today and say things like..."I lost because it's there fault" or "All the people who didn't vote for me are lazy losers" etc etc
Maybe before we assume that the generalised others are whatever, maybe we should take the time to listen first and find out who exactly they are.
Thanks, Janie. I am getting there.
Oh, for those who know me but don't know what Janie is talking about...my Mum passed away suddenly only four weeks ago.
Thank you Linncn. I in no way mean that those that can't work shouldn't have help.
I was talking to a friend, who is a democrat last night. Her position is that life isn't fair, and all children deserve equal opportunities. She said it's not right that some kids have designer clothes and go to excellent colleges. I disagree with that. I think every child should grow up with love and have their needs met; food/clothing. If someone has the money that they have worked hard for and buys their kids designer clothes I see nothing wrong with that. Do I think that Joe Sshmo that chooses not to work is entitled to have his family to be decked out in designer duds, no.
I chose to have two kids because that's what we could afford. I chose to save for their college fund. My husband and I had 2 or 3 jobs when we were first married to invest in our future. I know people that were the same age as us, going on vacations, driving bigger better cars and living in a house they couldn't afford. Because they didn't plan well and have no money now, their kids get almost a free ride to college while I pay 100%. Why is it when you work hard and sacrafice someone that sits around and spends what they don't have ends up getting more help?
It just seems to me that with Obama there will be more hand outs to "spread the wealth". Like I said, get a job, don't have more kids than you can afford, live within your means but stay out of my pocket book. I worked hard for what I have.
All these congratulations. It's like being congratulated on your new cancer diagnosis.I work in politics and although I rarely have spoken of my candidate I have made no secret of which party I'm a part of. We've all worked so hard for so long and we're totally exhasted.....and to say the least; disappointed.
I promised to give our new President the respect he deserves and that's what I'll do. Many things will change but I am not one of the ones that believes the sky is falling. I will encourage others in our Party to give him a chance. I hope we can move on and live in peace. This has been such an ugly campaign I know that no matter what party you are a part of; We're all glad it's November 5th.
I'm glad it's over. Congratulations to those of you that worked so hard for a candidate that you believed so much in.
It's my every hope that AI will soon put this campaign season behind us and move on as well. It's sad what this has done to an other wise close group of friends.
Cordy, you're adding an awful lot to what I said. If you go back and reread, you'll notice that I made no reference to any race, I did not say that people who aren't like me are bad. I clarified for you what Debra said, which I happen to agree with whole heartedly, because you chose to add a lot on to her post too.Cordy I'm not even going to respond to your posts. You are missing the point and definitely misrepresenting what I was saying.
I stand firm in my beliefs.....there are way too many people looking for a handout and feel they are entitled. Some of these people say they can't find a job however there are plenty of jobs available. Why won't they go for these jobs; because they are "beneith" them.
I wish you well Cordy, and hope you are feeling a lot better.
some can sigh relief.... I think the beginning is here... but for what? I'm scared of what may come... Anxiously I await the cabinet... for there is where he will draw his experience ....Democratic control of the House and Senate w/ a democratic president...
Look at history... that's not always a good thing... though Kennedy had it I believe.... but so did Carter... *sigh* The good thing about an Obama presidency and a democratic congress is things will get done.. maybe not the way some of us would like...but there won't be much as far as fighting amongst themselves.. whereas had McCain won, there would be road blocks at every corner... so in a time where we need action.. things need to be addressed, we needed a democratic president to faciltate these things.
Let's see what this way comes... since we have no choice but to do just that..... and hope for the best.
It's just so amazing that when someone actually says something that is 'against' conservative thought, all hell breaks loose.
If you know me you well, you know that usually I do not take part these kinds of discussions. You also know that I have been a huge support to many on this board.
I am just basically sick of having to hold my tongue while others ride roughshod over anyone who isn't a well off conservative.
A long, long time ago this board used to be about supporting each other with RA. Now it is about politics and religion.
Link, you know me well so why not ask me to clarify what I am talking about instead of deciding that you know.
DebraKay, I actually believe all human beings deserve health care for free and equally. That's what our taxes should pay for. I believe all children should be entitled to free and equal education.
What I am saying is that you made a generalised comment on how now Obama is President there will be handouts to lazy people? Which lazy people?What does that even mean? Who gets to decide who gets the handouts? Oh, that's right you guys must because hey, you work hard so you are entitled to make those decisions.
I have worked like crazy before I was struck down with this disease.
And yes, I take often to DebraKay implying that anyone who can't and isn't working is accepting handouts.
Until you are in a situation where you are not financially secure, as far as I am concerned you have no right whatsoever to judge me or anyone who isn't a conservative. You know nothing about my work ethic. Just because someone does not have a job does not mean they have no work ethic.
Until you are in a situation where you are not financially secure, as far as I am concerned you have no right whatsoever to judge me or anyone who isn't a conservative. You know nothing about my work ethic. Just because someone does not have a job does not mean they have no work ethic.
Cordy... no one is judging you. Of all people in this world, we know how difficult things have been for you ... it's obvious by the tenacity with which you fight this disease that you are not a lazy person... and There are many on this site who are in the same position as you...
Judgment, or more often, opinion comes in discussion of the few who are capable and not willing... But when you set up a system to help those in need there will always be those who take advantage....
Those advantage takers are from both major parties.. there are no fingers being pointed toward one party affiliation or another.. It was a generic statement and though I didn't say it, I am sorry you were hurt... That you broke your quiet on here to have to tell us this rather than how you are and how your little one is..
You don't need to defend your position. Sit back folks and watch......Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Biden and Barrack......Gosh Cordy, I didn't think I needed clarification on what you said. I thought you needed clarification. It seemed to me that Debra, and then I, were attacked by you because we expressed our views.
I was reading about wealth and colleges and people who work hard to buy their children designer clothes and send them to the best schools etc. Yes it should go to those who work hard but is working hard sitting in the stock exchange getting huge bonus's being a huge banking executive or playing god with other peoples homes and finances and then reaping the rewards until something like the credit crisis happens, or is it being that nurse or police officer or fire fighter, teacher etc who work so hard, save lives but cant afford to clothe their kids in the best and have to take out loans to send their kids to an average college for an education which should be a god given right anyway. My husband works 12 hours a day as a project manager for an engineering firm, he works really hard, he then comes home and on the way picks up various kids to bring home, he cooks dinner most nights as im having problems at the moment and does any other things for me that i havent managed to do. My kids dont have designer clothes or go to oxford or cambridge universities as we cant afford them. My husband also helps out old people. I dont work and i get full disability from our government but no i dont feel gulity, i have always worked since leaving school until RA struck bad. [QUOTE=Linncn] Well, there's nothing left to do but pray for our new President. And hope he doesn't mess things up as much as I think he will.[/QUOTE]
I am sorry you feel that way Linncn and to all others who are not happy with the election George W hasn't been that great either so let's just pray as you say and give the new man a chance! Enough said peace everyone and have a good day!!meme2008-11-05 05:57:33
[QUOTE=Joie]270 electoral votes were needed to win the Presidency, Senator Obama won 338 electoral votes -- that's a lot of Americans that believe in him and voted for him -- Americans of all ages and of all races.
So far the popular vote is 52% to 47%.
The Senate still has the power to filibuster.Wow… Where to start… On the one hand, it was awesome to watch history being made right before our very eyes… On the other… I am… Devastated… I actually feel like crying. Maybe it’s the RA and my meds but I do not feel hopeful. I do not see this as a good thing. I worry about the future… things that worry me: foreign countries having parties to celebrate President Obama. Even scarier, networks covering that as if it was a good thing. This was never meant to be a victory for the world. Sorry those of you from outside the US. This election was supposed to be about what is best for the US. Not the world. I will NEVER denigrate a sitting President .I will not start with President Obama but as I saw the results rolling in certain things jumped out at me. Black Panthers intimidating voters, saying that they had to win at all costs, they were tired of the white man keeping them down. Voters walking away from the polls excited because they will not have to worry about paying their mortgage or filling up their gas tank because they voted for Obama. Lastly, two developments that happened in the last 2 days or so. One, Obama already starting with the “it’s going to take time to “fix” everything” (translation, I’ll need 2 terms so don’t be surprise when there is no improvement in the first 4) and then Biden lowering the bar for “rich” to k/yr+. Apparently, I am rich and didn’t know it. Wish I’d known with more time to enjoy it before the government decides to take more…
For the record, I hope I am wrong. I have never prayed so hard to be wrong. I hope Obama rises to the occasion and becomes the man so many think he is and that he becomes a great American President…
BTW no one judges anyone here… But when did it become a bad thing to be successful, to be self sufficient, to make something of one's self? Cordelia, I may be financially secure but I earned that. No one gave it to me. I work 60-70hour every week. I coach my son’s soccer team; I take my one daughter to her choir and theatre rehearsal and the other to volleyball, math club and choir. All that while I battle the same monster you do. I do not think that makes me better than anyone else but why am I worse? Why should I be penalized so that someone else can have it better? That has always been my problem with socialist thought. How is that fair? And perhaps more importantly, where is the incentive to excel and better oneself? I have no problem with helping the needy. It’s where to draw the line for needy, that I may take exception. Make sense?
Be well…
Its amazing that the Republicans are scared. Haven't you noticed what Bush has done? Bush has destroy all good feelings that other countries had for us.
Invaded a country for no reason (Iraq), didn't even help our own people (Katrina) and totally destroyed our economy. Made torture acceptable, created illegal prisons to torture people and killed not only our soldiers by not providing them with hospital care nor the right equipment AND killed million of civilians in Iraq.
Wake up. I will be scared till Bush is out of office, because you never know what else he will do in the next couple months.Bird, We will see... I disagree with you about President Bush but it would be pointless to argue that. You wouldn't change your mind no matter what I said and I KNOW YOU"RE WRONG (lol).... But I sincerely hope you are right about President Obama. I would love nothing better than all of us sitting here 4 years from now saying that President Obama was the best thing to happen to America in a long time and we need 4 more years from him. I really do...[QUOTE=Bird Girrl]Its amazing that the Republicans are scared. Haven't you noticed what Bush has done? Bush has destroy all good feelings that other countries had for us.
Invaded a country for no reason (Iraq), didn't even help our own people (Katrina) and totally destroyed our economy. Made torture acceptable, created illegal prisons to torture people and killed not only our soldiers by not providing them with hospital care nor the right equipment AND killed million of civilians in Iraq.
Wake up. I will be scared till Bush is out of office, because you never know what else he will do in the next couple months.[/QUOTE]
Amen [QUOTE=José]Bird, We will see... I disagree with you about President Bush but it would be pointless to argue that. You wouldn't change your mind no matter what I said and I KNOW YOU"RE WRONG (lol).... But I sincerely hope you are right about President Obama. I would love nothing better than all of us sitting here 4 years from now saying that President Obama was the best thing to happen to America in a long time and we need 4 more years from him. I really do...[/QUOTE]
This will happen, it is about time a Democrat is the President again. Nothing good ever came of a Republican being in office especially good ol George and his Daddy.
I am so filled with emotion, I can't stop crying today. This is a wonderful day in the nation's history, and I am so proud that it happened in my lifetime. Only in America could this happen. We are a nation of so many different peoples, and we have the opportunity to come together
in a way we never have before.
I was so touched by McCain's concession speach. That is the real John McCain, the one so many of us used to know, and it was such a hopeful, supportive speach. Hope is what we all need right now, because we are all scared. The mess we are in is enormous, and it will take everyone to fix it. Maybe now we can all become just Americans, instead of Republicans and Democrats and work together as generations past did in times of crisis.
[
This will happen, it is about time a Democrat is the President again. Nothing good ever came of a Republican being in office especially good ol George and his Daddy.
[/QUOTE]
And we are told we are the intolerant ones....
Cordelia, I am so sorry to hear about your mom, I didn't know. I hope you are ok and taking care of yourself and your wee one during what must be a very difficult time. YOu will all be in my prayers.
take care,\
deb
Shame on you and this forum!
AchingAudrey2008-11-30 11:40:54AA ....I think its great that you worked hard and are now reaping the benefits and thats excellent, its not always that straightforward for some people...you have to walk a mile in someone elses shoes before throwing stones. I am glad for Obama and i think it is about race to a certain extent . This is the first black president of the USA and thats history in the making so the word "Black" will be brought up lots but thats different than racial. If McCain had won and Sarah Palin had been the first woman vice president then it would have been " A Woman Vice President" slapped all over the news....thats history not sexual discrimation[QUOTE=Bird Girrl]Its amazing that the Republicans are scared. Haven't you noticed what Bush has done? Bush has destroy all good feelings that other countries had for us.
Invaded a country for no reason (Iraq), didn't even help our own people (Katrina) and totally destroyed our economy. Made torture acceptable, created illegal prisons to torture people and killed not only our soldiers by not providing them with hospital care nor the right equipment AND killed million of civilians in Iraq.
Wake up. I will be scared till Bush is out of office, because you never know what else he will do in the next couple months.[/QUOTE]
OK It's official...Bird Girl scares me more the Obama.
The key word here for the future is FREEDOM
The future will support only those movements or philosophies which lead to unification, mutual respect and good-will among all individuals. Human unity cannot be forced. The association of people must be a free association or it can never succeed. I personally would like to see party lines disappear. A house divided always falls as we have witnessed in the past. Hopefully, there will be an upliftment of consciousness within the world and the development of an ability to see beyond the narrow confines of the world view. Gradually we will have to overcome our instinctive xenophobia (fear of foreigners) and be receptive to the many new and unfamiliar things that are headed our way in the future.
All political systems which unduly restrict the liberty of their citizens don't work. Censorship, limitations, prohibitions of any kind are supported by an out-dated system.
My hope is our new President will embrace these ideas and not just "talk the talk". Hence, to me, FREEDOM means free trade, freedom of the press and speech, medical freedom (the right to choose your own form of treatment, however unorthodox), all those rights the those great individuals wrote into the constitution.
With reserve, I sit back and hope these freedoms will be unchanged in the climate of CHANGE. Time will tell...
Fun fact for you all...
Since the 1930's the Washington Redskins have chosen the next president. If they win their last game before the election, the current party is re-elected. If they lose, the other party wins.
Their game on Monday was a loss....actually a total blowout if I am not mistaken.
In the words of my middleschoolers...."Dude, that is freaky!"
Shame on you and this forum!
AchingAudrey2008-11-30 11:38:54I can see BHO now. The first major bill to cross his desk. People staring down at him . He grabs a pen...........and says.........." What do you mean I can't vote Present "
Shame on you and this forum!
AchingAudrey2008-11-30 11:37:52[QUOTE=AchingAudrey][QUOTE=6t5frlane]I can see BHO now. The first major bill to cross his desk. People staring down at him . He grabs a pen...........and says.........." What do you mean I can't vote Present "[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
During his short Senate time he voted " Present " much of the time. Not Yes, Not No. Much was made about his always being late and voting " Present " all the time
AA
http:www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html
hhhmmm
[QUOTE=AchingAudrey]Mabus spoke of freedoms...I've already lost (partially) my freedom of religion...ie: prayer in schools, christmas trees in office settings, etc. so that someone ELSE can exercise their freedom, where's the justice (or freedom) in that? The gap is narrowing people...open your eyes. And on another note...yes I fear foreigners...the ones that fly full airplanes into buildings!!![/QUOTE]
My office has contests each year for holiday cube decorations. It's not forbidden by the government - but private employers have the right to limit what you do on and with their property. You have the freedom to find somewhere else to work.
As for praying in schools... it's not forbidden now. Any student can take a moment to pray if/when they need to. What is forbidden, and with good reason, is mandated school/state-sanctioned group prayer and the support of one religion over another. I don't want my children to be forced to participate in group prayer or religious activities that is in direct contrast to the faith that our family practices. Do you? Who would get to pick the religion and denomination?
[QUOTE=Bird Girrl]Its amazing that the Republicans are scared. Haven't you noticed what Bush has done? Bush has destroy all good feelings that other countries had for us.
Invaded a country for no reason (Iraq), didn't even help our own people (Katrina) and totally destroyed our economy. Made torture acceptable, created illegal prisons to torture people and killed not only our soldiers by not providing them with hospital care nor the right equipment AND killed million of civilians in Iraq.
Wake up. I will be scared till Bush is out of office, because you never know what else he will do in the next couple months.[/QUOTE]
I did not vote for Bush (either time) and I did not vote for McCain. I did not vote for Obama either. Of course, in Illinois it didn't matter, as it was a given that he would win our state.
I consider myself somewhere between independent and republican. My ballot was split about 75% GOP and 25% Dem. I've never voted straight party.
Shame on you and this forum!
AchingAudrey2008-11-30 11:37:25
[QUOTE=AchingAudrey]Praying to GOD is praying to God and I wouldn't care what religion it was that my kid was praying with as long as it is to GOD.[/QUOTE]
So you'd be cool if the school chose Catholic? Muslim? Jewish? Bahai?
I Watched both speeches. I was elated that Obama won but what I liked best about both speeches is they talked about working together to improve our country, support our president and cross partisan lines. I was impressed by John Mc Cain and I am glad he will still be in the senate. They BOTH talked about crossing partisan lines and working together to improve our world. Let's give it a try. We can try to start right here at AI. Lets let go of this anger and fear and work together to improve everyone's lives. This is a time to come together as a community and care for each individual. Let's give it a try. The election is over - no more anger and hate but support each other and do what we can for each other. Our country has a lot of problems, lets pray and work together to get back on our feet. YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!!When I was watching one of the local stations last night, there was a poll that showed that the minority vote was split almost evenly between the two candidates. They apparently were trying to prove that Obama's lead had nothing to do with race.
The Wall Street Journal today seems to show otherwise. I think we all know this anyway. Don't bash me because I'm not saying I don't support Obama.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122585855323600509.html#project%3DEXITPOLL0811%26articleTabs%3Dinteractive
The state of Virginia requires a "moment of silence" each morning. The kids aren't told what to do during this time. Many of them do choose to say a silent prayer. I think this is a good compromise. Those who want...pray. Others-daydream. Whatever works.[QUOTE=roxy]I Watched both speeches. I was elated that Obama won but what I liked best about both speeches is they talked about working together to improve our country, support our president and cross partisan lines. I was impressed by John Mc Cain and I am glad he will still be in the senate. They BOTH talked about crossing partisan lines and working together to improve our world. Let's give it a try. We can try to start right here at AI. Lets let go of this anger and fear and work together to improve everyone's lives. This is a time to come together as a community and care for each individual. Let's give it a try. The election is over - no more anger and hate but support each other and do what we can for each other. Our country has a lot of problems, lets pray and work together to get back on our feet. YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
Sounds nice but will never happen. Remember half the country didn't want Obama. Amazes me that suddenly a Dem President gets in and it's all Kumbaya. From the same people that called George Bush a Nazi and worse
I know 6t5. All of the sudden the dems are all about respect for our leaders and working together. The only glimmer of hope for the country now lies in the republican's ability to fillabuster. I hope they have the guts to challenge every socialistic plan that BHO throws at them.
Our schools in UK are intergrated....all different religions together. My daughters class last year visited a mosque and learnt about the muslim faith and also about diwali and ramadam, they dont pray at school to any one faith its one prayer for all. We do have catholic schools but theres a mixed bunch of kids that go there too, its just run by nuns...All the schools celebrate xmas in the normal way, tree, presents,Birth of jesus, everyone respects each others religions and festivities.pin-
I have an English friend who says there is indeed ALOT of tension between the Pakistani Muslims and the English. Does everyone really get along?
No Jan, they don't excpet in smaller groups but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try...
Jas, I'd be cool with my kids participating in any prayer that honored the creator. I am Catholic, I was even a Youth Minister and considered going into the Seminary. I just happen to believe that all true religions (by that I mean honest to goodness religions) were made to honor different manifestations of the same God. I used to teach at a private Jewish School. I loved being there and learning from my students, as most expensive private schools the actual religious makeup was very diverse but they all learned Judaica. All of us teachers tried to incorporate it into our lessons...
[QUOTE=José]No Jan, they don't excpet in smaller groups but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try...
Jan
I live in a little town just outside London. It has a large population of Pakistani's, they fight amongst themselves more than with us. They are okay and our town mayor 2 years ago was a Pakistani...he was great for the town and the local youth whatever their colour. There are problems as with any race or cultural difference but theres no problems with it in the schools, my eldest daughter is now 20 and she has a wide variety of muslim and hindu friends that she used to attend school and college with...they all used to get together once a month and cook meals from each others home countries.
There will always be problems as long as men rule the world, whereas women are more inclined to sit down and communicate. However, man's instinct is to fight and it doesn't matter what color or religion, or political party you belong to.
I do hope that this means peace for all the world.
And no I do not hate men...well maybe hubby once in a while. LOL
[QUOTE=GG]There will always be problems as long as men rule the world, whereas women are more inclined to sit down and communicate. However, man's instinct is to fight and it doesn't matter what color or religion, or political party you belong to.
And no I do not hate men...well maybe hubby once in a while. LOL
[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Linncn]
I know 6t5. All of the sudden the dems are all about respect for our leaders and working together. The only glimmer of hope for the country now lies in the republican's ability to fillabuster. I hope they have the guts to challenge every socialistic plan that BHO throws at them.
[/QUOTE]
I heard something in passing on CNN last night that if the Dems picked up more seats, they'd be immune from fillabusters.
Anybody know it 1) its true and 2) they did?
Pip
To shut down a fillibuster one party must have 60 seats in the senate. The democrats contol 56 at the moment with 4 races still too close too call. Those states are Oregon, Minnesota, Georgia, and Alaska. In all of those races the Republican is ahead. Georgia is likely going to a run off which will be held in early Dec. That seat is likely to stay republican. Minnesota is seperated by less than 500 votes and is in an automatic recount. This is the Al Franken race. Oregon the Dems hope to still pull out but the Republican is 6000 votes up. Alaska Ted Stevens should win. Based on these projections 58
may be the best they can hope for.
Of course these numbers include Obama's and Biden's seats though no one really expects those seats to turn republican. The count also includes Joe Leiberman of CT on the Dem side. He is currently in the Senate as an Indpendent but as we know actively supported McCain for President. It remains to be seen which side of the aisle he associates with. He may enjoy the power position he may end up in.
buckeye2008-11-05 14:24:54Can't religion and prayer be practiced when the kids get HOME from school?? Or in the morning BEFORE school? Why IN school??? Where I live they have Weekly Religious Instruction DURING school hours. You can choose not to participate but you are then in the minority and you kid has "FREE" time while this is going on (I do not practice the religion taught in this class). This happens while art, music, PE and other programs are cut out due to the lack of precious time.
I am not against religion but this seems to be more of a power play than anything.
I, however, don't have a problem with a moment of silence.you need 60 seats to avoid a filibuster.Every expert is saying that they are not likely to achieve a Super Majority. Which again, most experts agree would be a bad thing...
I have no problem with any religion or no religion. What I have a problem is my very talented daughters not knowing any Christmass songs because they are not allowed to have any religious references in the repertoire for the school choir... I mind having Winter Break when everyone in the world knows it is the Christmass break... In other words, I mind paranoid people pushing their ideas on the rest of us under the guise of not having us push our ideas on them... Make sense?
Especially when University of Michigan, which is a public University so this is with taxpayer money, installed ceremonial baths for the muslim population. But try to sing "Joy to the World" during the "winter holiday"? Forget it. It's unconstitutional.
Good morning from Oz...
Let me clarify a few things first:
1. I am not anti conservative at all. And some of the conservatives on this board - Link and Jas for two I have great respect for as human beings.
2. I am sorry Link if you felt attacked. That was not my intention at all.
3. The bit you all missed is what I about McCain which was important. See, I may be 'a liberal' in your terms but I can still watch McCain and express how impressive he was, how gracious, how dignified. I am usually not a person who has to be right so much that I can't recognise something good from another position.
4. I agree with Babs when you set up a system to help those in need there will always be those who take advantage...I just don't think it should be assumed that will be the majority though because I do not believe that to be true.
5. Jose...excuse me but because I am not financially secure does not mean I am not deserving like you. I believe all human beings deserve equal respect and basic needs met. Period. It's not about who deserves it and who doesn't. And darling, if you knew me (which you don't), you would not be telling me you are fighting the same disease and doing, blah, blah, blah. Lol. I want to laugh at you. Either you're RA is very mild or you are newly dxed and in denial because the stats show that most RAers by their tenth year are unable to work. Unfortunately I am one of them. Pleeaase!!!!
6. You might be surprised to discover but as an Australian, I would have to say Birdgirl's comments are accurate. As far as most Aussies are concerned, yes, Bush has destroyed all the good feelings other countries had. Many of us also have young men and women that have been drawn into 'the war in Iraq' which many of us believe is about Bush wanting to his hands on the world's oil supply.
7.I am someone who usually doesn't voice my opinions on such issues here on this board instead I spend my time and energy supporting people with RA something that cannot unfortunately be measured as worth something because it doesn't pay money. There are many things in life worth doing just because they are, not for financial gain. Does this mean I don't have a work ethic because I can't say I am a martyr who works 60 hours plus a week?
8. I am actually not anti conservative at all. I am just so very, very sick of it all...the conservative's playing righteous martyrs and the liberals being obnoxious. I am completely and utterly sick of it. It feels as if everything on this board is about politics or religion and the real reasons we were all here are gone. It makes me very, very sad to see this. And I do not believe that people aren't entitled to their opinions but does it have to be the whole focus of the board all the time.
Thank you to those who offered their sympathy about my mothers passing. I am devastated as is Neve and my Dad. It is extremely raw right now as you can imagine.
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I was on another site that had several links listed. One just said, "44", and I didn't know what it meant, so I hesitated to click on it. For some reason, seeing that number kind of gave me a bad feeling.
But I clicked on it, because I trust the links on that site, and it went to a page about Obama being the 44th President.
Okay, that makes sense....but why was seeing '44' giving me the heebie-jeebies??? Then I figured out....that is how old I am......
Here's to our new Pres, whatever number he may be!
I'm glad someone else picked up on Obama doing the "it may take more than one term" to fix things, although he promised change when he took office. Seems he's singing a different tune already, and he's not living in the white house yet.
This is the first time I've read that 75K puts you in the category of being rich. That is absolutely crazy. That makes me believe more and more than I'm screwed. Nothing like busting your ass your whole life and saving and scrimping to have someone else screw you over in the end to spread the wealth..........
Clearly I am not American, but I am really pleased Barack Obama won the election.
My concern for him and his party is that the general public always seem to want immediate change and realistically that can't happen. You need to first of all get the job, then be in the job a short while during the changeover to find out what really is the state of things then make decisions as to how to fix them and how long it will take to fix them.......there are already some on this forum who are questioning whether he will fix things --- good grief people he was only elected yesterday! Give the man a chance.......
I was riveted to the TV screen listening to what I thought was a very empowering acceptance speech - congratulations to your President Elect Mr Barack Obama.
I'm just feeling happier and happier. What a defining and inspiring occurrence.I know I already commented but I'm really happy for you guys. And everyone else. Pip - the D Senate picked up enough R seats to be able to pull over the necessary Rs for a coalition to deny filibuster. They offer R Chairmanships on important committees in exchange for their pledge to not filibuster. The Ds might not have 60 Ds, but they have alot of Ds, 2 Is, and only need a few Rs to get to 60. against my better judgement.... i should not comment on this. i realize everyone on this board hates president bush. president bush has saved us from many, many terrorist attacks we do not even know about. he has been a good president with morals and values. yes he has made some mistakes but only ones that you could see in hindsight. he is a man not a savior like your bho. the economy fell because of greed!!! the last 2 years democrats have been in charge of congress and the house. this is when our economy started to crumble but they knew before that but ceos. mortgage companies, etc were getting rich. bho supporters voted in death for infants. infants left to die when born alive if the mom does not want them because it is mom's choice. they voted in gay marriages. they voted in the government takes your money in form of higher taxes (for all), capital gains, inheritance taxes, any extra money you have laying around your 401k's are going to be taxed higher. bho supporters voted in a man who sat for 20 years in a church where hatred for america was preached every sunday---- rev wright married them, baptized their children. bho has many friends who are terrorists of course other countries are overjoyed. why? it should scare you! think about it. he has a muslim history and muslim terrorist friends. look at his name. maybe that should scare you. america is going to fall from within. we already do not follow our christian values upon what this great nation is founded on. so dont be betting Jesus Christ is going to be blessing our sins that we are celebrating as freedom and tolerance. HOPE WON! more like DEATH WON. wonderwoman wonderwoman2008-11-05 21:56:21
Cordelia, How many years do I have to have RA before I can say I am like you? Newly diagnosed? Again, how many years do I need to have it before I am no longer new to this? Sounds to me like you are the one being judgemental. A martyr, me? LOL.... I am in pain. Everyday. I don't complain because there is no one who can take it away. I don't stop pushing because I can't. I am a father of three. I am their provider. Most days, I just take my pain pills and do my job. I am sorry that you cannot... I am wondering what exactly it is that you mean by you are "deserving" like me. What exactly are you deserving of? or more importantly what am I supposedly deserving? The way I see it, I don't "deserve" anything. I earned and continue to earn what I have.
BTW, I am deeply sorry about your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you and yours…
Also, I am not sure who said that the majority of anyone of lazy or take advantage of anything. But didn’t you worry seeing people vote for President Obama, because they would not have to worry about paying their bills anymore? Or because they were tired of the white man keeping them down? Or because it was time for a black president? We’ve never had a Latino President and you don’t hear anyone saying we need one. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t miss the seense of History being made. I just think that for us to say we are truly past racism, the skin color of either candidate should be the last thing we see, look for or talk about…
Lastly Cordelia, I am most certainly not against helping out those in need. I give to charity. I am that sucker that when approached at a gas station, will hand out money to complete strangers that have “broken down”. I get teased a lot because “they’re probably just needing a drink” but my philosophy is I’d rather take a chance on helping someone who doesn’t need it, then take a chance on not helping someone in dire need… However, I do have a rather unique perspective. As an employer, I get to see first hand a lot of able bodied young people who don’t want to work. Some that want to make k/yr with no experience or education… Some that would rather stay at the shelter. For a day, they get fed and a bed. I’ve tried many times working with the local shelters or the homeless to get these people jobs, I help them get a bank account, a room/apartment and I start paying cash at the beginning so they are able to fend for themselves. I’ve even got opportunities for advancement if they should turn out to be good employees…. I’ve been trying to do this for 4 years. Do you know how many I’ve hired over those 4 years? 100’s, want to know how many are still with me? 1. For the most part, they end up homeless again, or back at the shelter… So that brings me to the big problem with all the Social Programs, where do you draw the line? Who do you help and who don’t you? How do you separate the truly needy from those just wanting a free ride?.... Oh and let’s not forget my big problem with the inequity in taxing. Make more, you pay more. I’d be ok with that except for the fact that the percent goes up as you make more AND now there’s talk of even raising it more. For those that can afford it, whatever that’s supposed to mean. They started with 0k+, than 0k+, wait 0k+, what we meant was 0k+ and lastly we’re talking about those making k+… You don’t see a problem with this?...
Maz, we don’t expect immidiate change, but I do wonder why when he gets elected on promises of change and he hasn’t taken office, they are already trying to lower the expectations. As for learning how bad the situation is, hasn’t he been in Congress for a couple of years? Hasn’t he been paying attention? Look, I will give him a fair chance. But I, like a lot of Americans (Dems and Reps) plan on keeping an eye on things and voicing our opinion. Pushing our local Congressmen to represent us the way they were always supposed to be doing. I think one of the changes you are seeig is that people no longer wish to be blissfully ignorant…
Wonderwoman, one of my biggest problems with President Obama was how happy so many foreign nations, non-US-friendly nations, were overjoyed to see him win. That should set off all kinds of flags. Maybe he’ll prove them wrong. Maybe, and I sincerely hope so, President Obama will rise to the position and become the man that oh so many seem to think he is. Nothing would make me happier… BTW I saw his acceptance speech. I have to admit, he was awe inspiring. The man sure can talk the talk. I hope he walks the walk...
José2008-11-06 06:32:09I was curious to read this thread just to see the aftermath of the election. Snow Owl - You have a great attitude. May be......... because it is so much like mine.
Jose - I love how your school taught. I also believe in one God, just different cultures have different names and dogma. The Republicans had Republican president and a filibuster proof congress for two years. Instead of trying to block everything Obama tries to do, I hope to see a big picture outlook and give his plans and policies a chance to work. I was watching Bloomburg the other day, he was very impressed by how Obama plans to govern is very integrated and he has a lot of respect for Obama's policies. Gridlock just keeps us from moving forward. I think this election was about people wanting change, to look to the future and try something different. I hope we give it a chance.
Jose...We can't draw the line with social programs, someone will always benefit who doesn't really deserve it. Then again, many will find the comfort of food and shelter who are truly in need and truly try to do the right thing. Just tonight at our church soup kitchen ( which I cook for once a month) we had several young families. Families who are in need. One new family of a mum, dad, and 7 month old are living in their car, dad works 2 days a week which is all he can get at the moment. They manage the best they can on govt assistance and what little work they can get. They deserve benefits from the govt. My own brother in law on the other hand is a lazy good for nothing SOB who bludges on welfare refusing to work, lives in his car in an effort to coerce the govt to put him in public housing. Yes I know my taxes go to support him and sometimes it sucks. Then again I know that many more deserving people are receiving the help they need to feed, clothe and house their families. You will never get it perfect, you just have to hope that you help as many as you can, whether they deserve it or not. There are some people you just can't help (as you have seen while trying to employ people and not having it work out). There will always be those who want something for nothing. You said it yourself, that you would rather help someone who might not need it than not help someone who does need it.
When you cringe at the words Social Welfare or Socialised Medicine, consider the success that these programs are in 'friendly' countries like Australia, Canada and England. It's really not as scary as many of you seem to think. Having a public medical system ensures that everyone can get free medical care. I know its paid for with my taxes but I am more than willing to pay it knowing that anytime I need a Dr I can see one, for free, If I need my appendix out, I can get it done, for free. Even our private health care is govt controlled and they can't charge exorbitant rates, or deny anyone coverage. They only thing they can do is have you fulfill a waiting period for pre-existing conditions. My daughter has just spent 10 weeks in a private psychiatric hospital. The charge is 0 a night. She paid 0. Total. For all nine weeks. There is not limit on the amount of time she needs to be there. They can't deny her access anytime she needs it. For this insurance she pays 0 a month. I feel comforted that the govt is in control of my medical care and insurance. I have lived in Canada and Australia during my life and have always enjoyed the benefits of Socialized Medicine. My brother lives in the States, we have long discussions about how the system works. I always come away thanking God that I live where I do. He on the other hand always finishes our conversations re-iterating his desire to come to Australia and be cared for. He gets depressed thinking about when he retires....and has to get another job so that he can continue to have health insurance.
I get so sad when I read these threads. I sometimes can't tell whether the issue is rampant racism or bloody minded politics or a mixture of both. Whatever it is I hope that President Obama is allowed the time and space to create a healthy economy, secure nation, and health system that is beneficial to all Americans. And to rebuild it's reputation as a compassionate, caring, and unified nation.
Shame on you and this forum!
AchingAudrey2008-11-30 11:36:44Pammy - Thanks for the good wishes and hopes for our country. I just don't get some people's attitudes ???????? I was well respected by everyone when I could work hard and do community service. Now that there is no way, and I mean no way, I could work, I thank God that there is Social Security, Medicare and a family that loves me enough to help. I cannot imagine what it would be like for me if I did not have those things in this country. I am 52 years old. I did all the right things - the American Dream - the college education - community service - and had a very good job. None of that matters anymore. Now I am just another govt. bum who mooches off others. I do believe because of the varying degrees that RA effects people, some RA people can still work and have a social life - they just do not get it. They love to sterotype people and put anyone who needs a helping hand into that box that we don't want to work - we just want to mooch off of their hard earned money. If they only got it - how much I miss working, feeling productiv