elimination diet | Arthritis Information

Hello everybody.

I read you on a daily basis. I was diagnosed in march, this year. I told my story here, you can find it if you want. Great flare after giving birth to my daughter, then pred and MTX, now only MTX, 10 mg, and felt great. Until past month. For a month i have a finger swollen and my wrists are troubling me from time to time. As you can imagine I am getting very frustrated, I have my little girl to carry around all day long and I thought I was cured.

When I was diagnosed, I read lots and lots on the internet about RA. We all did, I figure. I found out about joe hackett's story and about the elimination diet described on Robert McFerran's site. He wrote a book that is available on that page.

It sounded very convincing.

I did not go on the diet because I felt good in a little while, due to MTX, because I wanted to do it but why do it now, always postponing, telling myself i'll wait a little longer, ask my mum to come and help with the baby while i'll do it etcaetera.

Now I really want to do it. I am well prepared, I have made prints of all information I found, and today is my first day.

I wanted to ask you what you think of it.

Especially since I performed a search on forum and I found these names very rarely. I found that some members tried the diet, and did well after it, but they were not given much credit. Or so it seemed to me.

I do not know if it will help me or not, I am willing to believe and I will do it no matter what, the best I can.

I simply wonder why this approach fails to convince. It is not expensive, it is not harmful, as joe hackett said, it has lots of logic in it, yet we shrug our shoulders and go on with our MTX and lots of other poisons.

I almost did this, too. Now I am willing to try.

Please do not consider me a spammer. I saw that somebody who opened a similar topic and gave the links to the sites I talk about was quickly dismissed as a spammer by a narrow minded person. How is that possible, I wonder.

My parents are skeptical. Why don't I see a doctor to monitor me during the diet. Why am I following the indications of "somebody" on the Internet? etc What if I'll feel bad? Good GOd. I won't die if i eat fish and carrots and celery and pears for a week, then test other foods to see if I find some allergies.

Sorry to bother you with such a long post. I just need encouragement. I do not want to go to other forums. I like this one and I like many of you, the style of your posts and your thinking.

I only wonder> If i'll see improvement and I'll see that things really go on as predicted, with this diet, will somebody believe me ??

It is frustrating to give up lots of foods, but I have strong will. I remember my creeping and crying. I would do ANYTHING, AND I WILL, not to feel that way ever again in my whole life.

Ha ha. I guess this is not the main idea. The main idea is for me to feel better. But, If I would, would some of you consider giving it a try ?

That's what I wonder.

Best wishes to everybody. Sorry for the messy post, I won't read it again... I'm afraid it woult prevent me from posting it. :) :)
Miruna.

I say if you want to try this diet, go ahead. And I hope it works for you....But, could you please refrain from calling the meds that I and many others use, poison. They certainly haven't had that kind of effect on me No -my mindset is everything in moderation should not be a problem. Unless you have some extreme allergy to something and have to avoid it.

Overly processed foods should be eaten sparingly but not eliminated. It's the spice of life.

[QUOTE=Lynn49] I say if you want to try this diet, go ahead. And I hope it works for you....But, could you please refrain from calling the meds that I and many others use, poison. They certainly haven't had that kind of effect on me [/QUOTE]

:) yes, you certainly have a point, but I would't exactly name MTX the elixir of life, for that matter.[QUOTE=miruna] [QUOTE=Lynn49] I say if you want to try this diet, go ahead. And I hope it works for you....But, could you please refrain from calling the meds that I and many others use, poison. They certainly haven't had that kind of effect on me :) yes, you certainly have a point, but I would't exactly name MTX the elixir of life, for that matter.[/QUOTE]

That can be said about most meds.............

I actually applaud your decision. If you can figure out what foods affect your athritis (and there are usually if not always some that people find on those diets) it's a really good thing. I know I should do an elimination diet but the prospect is daunting. It is a hard process.

I don't think you should listen to your family on this one. It's not very supportive of them to pooh pooh the idea and they have obviously not done their research. Doctors want to help us but their realm of expertise is limited. They are not trained to look at diet. But the most important thing to remember when dealing with family and friends and doctors in regard to medical care is ONLY YOU HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF LIVING IN YOUR BODY. That makes you the only expert on what it is like to be you. Only you will be able to definitively know what foods affect you. So if you have the wherewithall to do an elimination diet, go for it!

I hear you about the meds. I'd rather have them than nothing, by a long shot, but I am not in denial about the adverse effects to our health they can have in the long run. I have seen it first hand too many times to believe they are benign that way. good luck with the diet. let us know how it goes.I have no idea what this diet is about, but while my medical doctors were fiddling around, I knew my slow colon/constipation was killing me. I did years of professional colonics, "brown cows" (warm prune juice and MOM), and epsom salts, and finally, finally got cleaned out and have somewhat normalized bowel health. I will always have to watch what I eat with RA. I have no idea what this diet is suppose to be eliminating, but I hope its about good colon health. Constipation is a symptom of RA. Good luck ~~ Cathy justsaynoemore2008-11-06 19:28:22

Hi everybody !

I wrote this this morning. For those who are interested, you can google this approach, I also mentioned some names in the beginning. It would be too much for me to start explaining. It is a complicate approach, there is no easy way to do it.

AND IT TAKES LOTS OF DETERMINATION

If you have never had any major flare and do not know what it is, if you are not scared as I am of an entire life ( :) I am thirty)) ahead with the SPECTER OF MTX luring above you, it is just useless to read about it.

Update on elimination diet:

Day 0: Thursday, november 6. Fish, carrots, celery, pears, turnips.

In the evening: went to the hospital with my little girl (after a too harsh diet following mild tummy problems, she refused all food and water for a whole day, however, at the hospital, being sleepy and exhausted, she finally accepted the bottle and didn’t need an IV). Cheated on the diet at the hospital because of exhaustion and husband buying unappropriate food he could find al 10 pm at a shop near the hospital).

Day 1 J Friday, November 7

We came back home from the hospital.

I went back on the diet.

Day 2 Saturday, November 8

No aches and pains. Slight sensation of hot cheeks and eyelids, like a mild fever. Though, no real fever.

Day 3 Sunday November 9

Same as day 2. Frustrated due to not having big withdrawal symptoms. As suspected, I might have severe candidosis. Also, my flare happened after 2 courses of antibiotics, following my caesarean section and a breast infection, one month after the c-section.

Day 4, Monday, November 10

Must eat fish very often. I almost can’t stand the vegetables anymore. Ate mostly fish and pears and felt better like this, hungerwise.

Day 5, Thursday, November 11

Since I did’t have major withdrawal symptoms (almost non-perceptible ones), in the evening I tested chicken liver. Went OK.

Day 6, Wednesday, November 12

Tested one egg in the morning – no reaction.

Went to the supermarket – bought green olives – yes, I thought about the preservatives added, but I had a huge craving L. Tested olives at lunch – no reaction.

Tested apples a couple of hours after the olives – no reaction.

Tested MUSTARD (which is an avoid food for blood O type – I only noticed this a day later / should have made my homeworks better…). Ate mustard twice, once with liver, then a bigger portion all by itself, due to CRAVING

Day 7 Thuesday, November 13

Mild aches in left hand fingers. Mild pain in the middle of my back. Hot cheeks and eyelids, like in the beginning of my diet. Plenty of sleep (my mother is here since the beginning of the diet and takes care of the baby), yet feeling fatigued

MUST BE THE MUSTARD. Or the excess of olives. Or the preservatives in both.

Very glad there is something after all. So, it works. I’m having reactions.

Must wait until symptoms dissapear (about 24 hours) before testing another food.

Ate this morning: Celery, carrots and apple juice, 2 eggs, fish

Sorry about this huge post. At least, if somebody will be willing one day to search here for the answer i hope to get, it might prove useful

Thanks for sharing, it can't hurt to do it, so go ahead and good luck. I am afraid I tried an elimination diet for about 8 weeks but nothing altered for me, 24/7 pain unfortunately, mostly due to intolerance /allergy to meds, I am sure it works for some as we are all different and different meds work for different people so go for it! Regards Janie. Hi Miruna!

I think what you are going to try and follow is awsome! Don't let anyone discourage you from trying to make yourself healthy. I specifically logged on to this forum this morning to find out if there were any posts about different types of diets people have tried and what those results were...and I ran into this post.

I have an appt next week with a naturopathic dr. that a co worker has seen and had rave reviews about. She has had RA for over 30 yrs, been on all kinds of prescriptions and had to start using a cane to walk. She said she will not be a victum of RA and took her health into her own hands...did tons more research and after hearing about this dr. she went to her. She was tested for any food allergies and put on a diet where they took out all beef, sugars and some other things. She said for months now all she is taking is Celebrex every now and then...that's it! So when you hear stories like this, WHY NOT give these things a try? It gives us hope and if anything makes your diet and body healthier. Yes, I'm sure they are hard to stick to but when you think of what you may be doing to your body with all the meds, or what your body is going through because you should be eliminating or adjusting your diet you need to put a little effort into it. If not for yourself but for your family. I have 2 sons myself and want to be around for them and watch them grow up!

I myself worry about the long term effects of all the medications I'm taking and am so tired of all the meds daily I put into my body. I don't believe they are posions, but I do think there are so many side affects with medications, you really dont know what you are doing to your body , sometimes until it's too late. I now have tremors from the medications. I've had RA since last Februrary and have had so many ups and downs. I know there are people that have tried different diets and they just dont work...I know their only option is to keep on their meds to try and have a some what normal life but if there is a chance you can do it without all those meds then I say go for it!!!

Good for you for giving this a try. If the elimination diet is just way too hard, why not try something a little at a time? Maybe try visiting a naturopathic dr. and get some ideas or find another diet to try out?

Let me know how this diet works for you! I'm curious to see if it helps any. Don't get frustrated and give up on trying new things.

Kelly

My sense is that eating ANYTHING creates a flare for me lately, and perhaps the digestive process at work is my problem. I feel okay all day up until a few hours after lunch, and then the pain and swelling starts. Then after dinner, WOW! I have been bedridden the past few weeks. Feel horrible when I get up during the night, then start to feel better by morning. After my shower I am able to dress for work, and most days can go for a 30 minute walk at noon. Come back from the walk and eat lunch, and then it starts. Do you take probiotics? THey have been very helpful to me.Ha, Jan! Nancy, I was just about to ask that same thing about probiotics.VERY INTERESTING. I am interested in seeing how you do following the diet...the ups downs, challanges and if it makes you feel well. I hope it does. I am going to look this up and read up on it. I know methatrexate helps people and is necessary...but calling it "poison" is not that far off. It is a chemo drug. I will be interested in following your adventure. Good for you for being proactive. I'll be watchingThank you everybody for taking interest in this ! It means a lot to me ! I will take probiotics, soon, and also vitamins. Now I am not taking any supplements.

I have 21 days to test new foods, after the first couple of days of the diet. This is my third day. I have to do more research on candida, I have to revise the AP-ers approach, I have to think of so many things...

NancyR, the digestive system is the problem, if you want, you can read about the "leaky gut" theory. Basically, RA is considered not to be an autoimmune disease (if they wouldn't have discovered the pathological agent fos syphilis, the scientist might as well consider it an autoimmune disease even today !), but a reaction of our bodies to particles of food that get into the blood without being properly "processed". I said just a small fact, but you can find lots of free information on the internet and if you react this way immediately after ingesting food, maybe it's worth paying attention to these theories.

I feel better today, the back pain is gone, I don't know what was I thinking "testing" olives and mustard on my fist day ! I guess I needed a negative reaction, a proof that the approach is working somehow.

Today I tested so far chicken and pumpkin seeds. It seems they work, no reaction so far.

I feel full of energy, in fact I have so little free time. I am working at home, subtitling for TV, and today I just agreed to translate a book, though I was pretty sure that after subtitling, which is fairly new for me, I won't go back to book translating :), after a couple of years of doing this.

Best wishes to everybody and good bye pain !

Miruna

miruna2008-11-14 07:58:01Miruna, good for you! It sounds like it's going great.

Nancy R, even if you don't subscribe to the leaky gut theory (and I certainly don't rule it out), probiotics are a very beneficial addition to anyone's diet or supplements, especially those with health issues, and super-especially those with health issues relating to the digestive system such as crohn's, IBS, colitis, etc.

Choose a brand with a lot of active bacteria and a wide variety. I switch around every time I buy some just to get a wider variety of strains (although I do have some favoured brands. You can actually feel a difference in your body---especially in your Poop du Jour).

There is some debate on the value of enteric coating. Some people believe capsules should be enteric coated to get past the stomach acids and open in the intestines, but evidence is increasingly mounting that most probiotic strains can actually bypass these acids by "shutting down" and reactivating once in a more amenable host environment.

My personal belief is that probiotic foods provide more active bacteria and in a wider variety than supplements (I do use both).

Probiotic foods include:

Yoghurt (use the plain kind with the ingredients "milk and live bacteria cultures". Activia and other brands have been completely processed to kill all the actual natural probiotics and have laboratory made probiotics added back in at the end of the manufacturing process. Or make your own yoghurt at home (it's easy))

Kefir (the BEST source of probiotics in my opinion)

Probiotic cream cheese (must be labeled probiotic)

cheese made from raw milk (now legal in Canada---don't know about the US)

Unpasteurised miso

Unpasteurised sauerkraut (super easy to make at home)

Unpasteurised vegetables pickled in salt brine

And more (gotta go soon)

You will get better use of the probiotic cultures by increasing prebiotic foods in your diet. these foods contain the foods for the probiotics, so eating them helps the probiotics proliferate in your gut.

Prebiotic foods include (but are not limited to)

berries
whole grains
beans
most vegetables

and etc.

Try it---you might find it makes a big difference!

I need to eliminate ALL FOOD because I am so frickin fat!!! This place rocks!!!Gimpy, thank you so much for taking the time to give me this wonderful information. Going to Whole Foods tomorrow for my pro and pre biotocs. Can't wait to start.

Miruna, will Google leaky gut, and will follow your journal to watch your progress with the elimination diet. Thanks!

interesting......I eat Activia Yogurt...it does make a difference......as Gimpy so nicely put it in the "Poop du Jour"..........Classic Gimmpy!....................im full of crap anyway so it flows all the time..........this place rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hi Miruna,

I understand your search for good health, being so young and having a small child to look after, and do wish you well on your elimination diet.

I also started on many drugs when Dx with RA but they are not for everyone especially me, they knocked me around something dreadful, but I also had a girlfriend that has had RA for 20 or more years and been on what she calls her miracle drug Mtx. and nothing else, she has no deformaties, drives trucks and does man labour. She is one of the lucky ones.

I also did the elimination diet, its certainly not for the light hearted, I lasted 7 days, eating only tuna, apples, sweet potato, grapes, water. my CPR went down to 9. My Rheumy said it was coincidental, but I differ!

The "leaky gut syndrome" is almost always associated with autoimmune disease and reversing autoimmune disease depends on healing the lining of the gastrointestinal tract. Any other treatment is just symptom suppression. Which is what I am aiming at with lots of research and help from others.

I chose to go this way as I want my life back and not be dependant on hard drugs, that were playing havoc with my health anyway and don't really know what long term damage they are doing or have done, to my body. I am now gluten, dairy and almost sugar free and still learning, I love my wine

I wish you all the best on your diet and look forward to following your posts. P.S. I love olives too but remember anything pickled is full of sugar. It does get easier......

Annie

Happy New Year, everybody !!

It's 7:42 in my country, I already translated 2 pages and my little daughter (11 months) should wake up every minute.

I am doing great on the diet !

Meaning: I managed to keep it until Christmas, when I ate pretty much everything. Fron today I'm planning to resume it strictly.

It's hard to cut it short, but i really have very little time.

So, the thing is> It's working, for me ! My greatest proof is that today and all these days since Christmas I have lots of sore spots in my fingers, wrists, knees, spine, feet and even one hip. They are not very bothering, compared wiht real pain, but I feel them and they certainly were not there 2 weeke before, when I was on the diet. I am happy because this proves the theory.

the bad news is:

It is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to stay on the diet. I survived due to indulging now and then with very very dark chocolate.

Yes, it's hard. If you begin to make compromises, everything is lost :)

You have to be very determined. (I try to be)

You have to be surrounded by other life satisfactions (and oh food is so goood and so at Hand!)

What I did not do OK with this diet:

1. I still was under lots of physical and psychical stress (house chores, translating, the little girl). I did not test all the foods I planned, because i was afraid some reactions will be hidden. My diet is therefore very strict, because i excluded form the start the questionable foods such as milk derivatives and cereals.

2. I was not in pain when I started it :)) (then I would have sounded more convincing, right ? remember my questions in my first post from this topic. I only had a swollen finger, which is now perfectly fine)

3. I did not treat my candidosis (and boy did it relapse :( when I started eating cholcolate). Doctors would think I'm mad here in Romania asking for antibiotics for candida when all I have is RA :0).

I thought of begging at pharmacies over the counter on saturdays and sundays, pretending I lost my final pills, then I could make a reserve and start the treatment:) just kidding. I'll find a way

.... many many more thing to say. I hear DAUGHTER fussing in bed grrrr

I hank those who answered so kindly and supporting :)

Best to you all !

And please, think a little about all those who are doing better on this disease but do not bother to tell us ! I am sure that there are plenty of them ! I do not pretend to be one, I am still far from healed, but I so much got to hate my MTX injection and hope to get rid of it some time !

Sorry for my English :) No time for polishing...

Happy New Year !

Miruna

oh, what the heck... :0) sentimental, anyway. Pictures with me and daughter :)

I removed the link :)

miruna2009-01-04 12:20:36Miruna..............................

I LOVE your pictures.

What a beautiful little girl you have. You also are a very attractive Mommy!

Thanks for sharing. I love to see pictures.

Lisa

Thank you !!

why did you remove pics?

I was thinking of doing a cleanse diet after the indulgences of the holidays... IDK if I will try this or another two options sent to me by friends... but I'm thinking it would be a good idea.. no matter what.

good luck to you!

Good luck with the diet, babs !

Here they are:

www.carinaandriescu.piczo.com

I didn't read this entire thread but I want to applaud you for trying the diet. I have had RA for 20 years and achieved remission on my own thru diet and exercise. I stopped and went back on sugars, chocolate, beef and basically anything else I wanted to eat and low and behold the RA came back and I haven't had the strength, or the will to do it again. Thus, now I am on MTX and prednisone.

I learned about remission through diet from a lady who had severe RA for years. She was a grandmother. Anyway, she went to a fasting center in northern California and went on a 14 day fast (under supervision at the center) and went into complete remission. She changed her diet to vegan after that and went back to playing tennis after 20 years of hardly being able to walk. The fasting center is very expensive and at one point I sent away for their brochure but chickened out. I still thought if I went on a vegan diet it would help me and it did. You also have to exercise. You have to get your heart rate up until you are severely out of breath. You will feel the pain start to leave your hands after a week of this, or that's what happened for me anyway. I just don' t have the will to do it anymore. But, if you keep posting about your progress it will encourage me to put down the waffles and try it to. God Bless you with willpower to do this! Let me know.

If you really like fish, snacking on sardines is great for RA!

Thank you for your precious words ! I am so glad to hear that some of us had results with the diet. I did't know about exercising like this, I'll try.

I am in that danger myself, with all the temptations surrounding us, and I keep telling me that FROM TOMORROW ON I will resume the diet, but I munch on this an that now and than, I don't eat big quantities but it's bad enough :) I am not in a diet-friendly environment at home and I don't bugger my husband about it. The thing is, once you start cheating on the diet, just a little bit, off it goes, like a snowball, the temptation :)

Thanks once again and good luck ! We can do it !!