I thought this part of the article was very interesting
Unlike some diseases, autoimmune diseases do not generally have a simple, single cause. There are usually two major categories of factors that are involved in causing autoimmune diseases: genetics and environment. Virtually every autoimmune disease combines these two. Let me explain more of what I mean. First, genetics. Genetics is involved in the development of autoimmune disease, but autoimmune diseases are not typical genetic diseases. What is a typical genetic disease? Most of us have heard of sickle cell anemia, and that's a genetic disease. That's a disease in which the victims of the disease have a specific genetic mutation. If you inherit this mutation from one parent, you have sickle cell trait; and if you inherit it from both parents, you have sickle cell disease. We know what the gene is, and we even know a great deal of how that works; so we know the etiology of that disease.
Autoimmune says because of a defect in your body (your genes et al) your body mysteriously turns on itself and starts attacking it's own tissue. The problem is the patients - victims of their biology.
It says there can be an environmental trigger (silica for scleroderma) or some other toxins, but if you weren't the 'problem' (the defect) then you wouldn't be sick.
We might be able with very expensive help (gene therapy) be able to 'fix' you. But the destruction you get before - not much we can do about it.
I am much happier with an infectious etieology. You got something (cell wall deficient bacteria). Your body can't fight it off. But if you do, you can stop the destruction. The cause is 'external'. Rather than 'internal'.
I think this ties back into the victim mentality we've talked about before.
Hugs,
Pip
[QUOTE=Pip!]But you chose to only go after the symptom - the destruction.
Wow, what a novel idea - finding the CAUSE!
Hugs,
Pip
[/QUOTE]
No.. PIP..i did not chose to go after my symptoms... I CHOSE TO FUNCTION.. and live!!!
Do not even go there w/ me..
I suppose you consider taking antibiotics in low dose form would go after my symptom? ONLY those of YOU WITHOUT destruction can afford to play footsie w/ AP....... those of us w/ MAJOR destructions and potential for major destruction cannot..... we can't afford to.
[QUOTE=Pip!]Autoimmune says because of a defect in your body (your genes et al) your body mysteriously turns on itself and starts attacking it's own tissue. The problem is the patients - victims of their biology.
It says there can be an environmental trigger (silica for scleroderma) or some other toxins, but if you weren't the 'problem' (the defect) then you wouldn't be sick.
We might be able with very expensive help (gene therapy) be able to 'fix' you. But the destruction you get before - not much we can do about it.
I am much happier with an infectious etieology. You got something (cell wall deficient bacteria). Your body can't fight it off. But if you do, you can stop the destruction. The cause is 'external'. Rather than 'internal'.
I think this ties back into the victim mentality we've talked about before.
Hugs,
Pip
[/QUOTE]
silica isn't an infection..... it's a mineral..... how do you battle that?
[QUOTE=babs10][QUOTE=Pip!]But you chose to only go after the symptom - the destruction.
Wow, what a novel idea - finding the CAUSE!
Hugs,
Pip
[/QUOTE]
No.. PIP..i did not chose to go after my symptoms... I CHOSE TO FUNCTION.. and live!!!
Do not even go there w/ me..
I suppose you consider taking antibiotics in low dose form would go after my symptom? ONLY those of YOU WITHOUT destruction can afford to play footsie w/ AP....... those of us w/ MAJOR destructions and potential for major destruction cannot..... we can't afford to.
[/QUOTE]
I just found it quite interesting that he brought up a exceedingly rare 'trigger' yet ignored massive other potential triggers. Maybe not that far fetched tho as he states his lab DEVELOPED the autoimmune theory - not a lot of prestige in moving out of THAT model.
Babs - I'm quoting you here for the book we're now working on and to keep it for posterity. How somebody with such an awful disease would say another person doesn't have enough enough damage is going to be quite a conversation starter. Thanks again.
There are three kinds of information that tell us if autoimmune diseases are genetic. I've mentioned two. One is family clustering; the second is the association with HLA. What's the third?
The third is that autoimmune diseases occur in animals as well as in human beings. With animals we can do the breedings that are necessary.
We can infer the same must be true in humans. In animals the equivalent of HLA determines susceptibility. In animals this trait is actually predictive. In humans we aren't yet at that point because we don't have enough information from humans to say, "Because of your HLA factor you're going to develop an autoimmune disease." We can, however, say that you have a greater likelihood of this happening.
So we're getting to a point where we can almost predict who is more likely or less likely to develop autoimmune disease. Now this, again, is an example of how very basic research on a molecular level or on a genetic molecular level is beginning to pay off in human medicine.
[QUOTE=babs10]I CHOSE TO FUNCTION.. and live!!!
[QUOTE=Pip!]Babs - I'm quoting you here for the book we're now working on and to keep it for posterity. How somebody with such an awful disease would say another person doesn't have enough enough damage is going to be quite a conversation starter. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]
you hang on to that little toe of yours, PIP.. and tell yourself that you suffer like those of us w/ RA.........
keep on telling yourself that..
and it won't be the first time I'm quoted in a book for posterity.. though the other one actually sold!!!
[QUOTE=babs10][QUOTE=Pip!]Babs - I'm quoting you here for the book we're now working on and to keep it for posterity. How somebody with such an awful disease would say another person doesn't have enough enough damage is going to be quite a conversation starter. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]
you hang on to that little toe of yours, PIP.. and tell yourself that you suffer like those of us w/ RA.........
keep on telling yourself that..
and it won't be the first time I'm quoted in a book for posterity.. though the other one actually sold!!!
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pip!][QUOTE=babs10][QUOTE=Pip!]Babs - I'm quoting you here for the book we're now working on and to keep it for posterity. How somebody with such an awful disease would say another person doesn't have enough enough damage is going to be quite a conversation starter. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]
you hang on to that little toe of yours, PIP.. and tell yourself that you suffer like those of us w/ RA.........
keep on telling yourself that..
and it won't be the first time I'm quoted in a book for posterity.. though the other one actually sold!!!
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Ooops..did you forget to post something????
[QUOTE=Spelunker]
.............I am always encouraged when I hear of anyone's success with any therapy. ANY therapy: no contest.
Best wishes, Shug
[/QUOTE]
Hear hear Shug,
About time somebody got what I have been talking about --- who cares what treatment path you choose, certainly not me, but if you have any success good luck to you and let us know!
As for you Babs,
You had and have the same opportunity as the rest of us and it is called choice. If you are having success with what you are taking, good luck to you! I have no inclination to question your decision. You sound like someone who has absolutely no interest in any other form of treatment other than your own.
Why Babs are you continuing to question others on their decision? Why are you always so negative about everything?
(edited to change my stuff to blue)
Maz-aust2009-03-30 18:34:12Maz...... I won't even venture any reply to your question..... You're such an amateur taunter......
coloring your pictures doesn't mean that more people will read them...no matter what Pip tells you.....
[QUOTE=Maz-aust]
[/QUOTE]
sounds an awful lot like many of the AP folks...
Amazingly just tonight I ran into my neighbor and friend and learned that she was DX'd w/ Lupus and her sister with RA!!
Her RD said to her that she didn't have a "chance" with the AI diseases on both sides of her family!!
(Also.. she had just returned from Florida feeling wonderful and with a wonderful dose of VitD!!!)
babs102009-03-30 19:07:08[QUOTE=JasmineRain]
sounds an awful lot like many of the AP folks...
[/QUOTE]
coloring your pictures doesn't mean that more people will read them...no matter what Pip tells you.....
[/QUOTE]
Come, come now Babs, we know you don't have the ability to actually think things thru for yourself.
Pip
pip -- I keep expecting you to say.
I'm rubber,,, you're glue.. what you say to me... bounces back to you...
Sorry -
That's derivative HS stuff. Since you never got out of HS, I can see why you'd expect that. Lets try some upper level college taunts, shall we?
Babs - me taunt, goodness - if you think this is me taunting you, think again !! However little people like you just make me smile, you don't really have any affect on my life other than to have a bit of fun. Reading your drivel puts a smile on my face.
Oh forgot this bit: Babs honey, you read it !!
Maz-aust2009-03-30 20:46:56Pip - don't give Babs too much credit ..... doubt she can keep up !!
why waste my breath???
Human!
Now maybe if we were aliens we would not have this lovely disease.
Maybe that is why the purple alien that is in my closet likes to come visit me at night and cattle prode my legs... he is hoping to convert me over to being an alien?I think the cattle prod thing is for breeding...but I might be mis-informed.
Pip
[QUOTE=Maz-aust][QUOTE=Spelunker]Hear hear Shug,
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