HEALTHCARE AND HELP WORLDWIDE. | Arthritis Information

I replied to a post on here about healthcare care in the Uk . We are entitled to quite a lot here in the UK with regards to our health and wellbeing , is this the same worldwide?

As you know our doctors and hospitals on the NHS are totally free of charge ( we do pay national insurance premiums out of our wages) If you work you pay a prescription charge for your meds, if you are unemployed you pay nothing at all! I have a pre payment card, I pay so much a month and i can get have as many meds as I am prescribed with no extra cost. A lot of people here with chronic illnesses get these cards.

We pay nothing for our biologic meds or our infusions. Some of these meds though are denied by some health trusts or come with stipulations, I can not recievce Rutiximab as i have failed biologics and am seroneg, this is a law brought in by N.I.C.E.

In the winter months our elderly and infirm get a cold weather payment of £250-£300 to heat their homes and further payments if the temps drop below zero. This to me is essential as too many elderly people die of hyperthermia due to heating costs.

My mother had a fall a little while ago. she lives in a warden controlled housing complex, these are designed for the elderly in the UK. They consist of 40 apartments that are supervised by a warden who calls in to each tennant every morning to make sure they are doing ok and have no problems. The warden lives in the complex too so if there are any problems she deals with them.My mum has a little garden that the warden helps her tend to. When my mum had a fall the warden called in social services who had a stairlift fitted and a walk in shower with a seat installed into her bathroom.. This costs my mother nothing at all. It is a great peace of mind for me.

I had a stairlift installed into my house a few years ago, this also didnt cost me anything, it was done through my occupational therapist grant. I have had my house adapted at no cost to me either.

So yes we are quite lucky here that our government takes care of the people who need it, but unfortunetly it takes care of the peole who abuse the system too.

It makes it too easy for young girls to have babies as they get free housing and money to live on. We take in people from all over the place and they get housed , money to live on, free medical help and they dont work . Then they brag that they come here as Britain will give them money.

Disability can be difficult to get , the process isnt as hard as the USA though. We get forms to fill in, send them off and normally first time they will send you to an independant doctor for assessment, I think most first timers are refused unless theirs is a loss of a limb.

You can appeal , you get a chance to meet the decision panel to put your case across.

You can apply for disabilty whether you work or you are unemployed. It is not means tested and it doesnt matter if your partner works or not. It is graded in 3 catagories. low rate, middle rate and higer rate. The latter is normally for long term mobility problems or severe mental illnesses. If you are on the higher rate you can apply for a new car , the payments ,insurance, tax ,upkeep etc is paid from part of your benefit, its not a lot though . I think our higher rate is around £400 a month , the car takes up about £40 a week of that money. The car is replaced every 3 years.

So yes I think we are taken care of rather well here, its just the ones who abuse the system that make me mad.

What are the rules and help in other parts of the world?

No health care system is perfect, without its problems. But consider, in the UK no one goes bankrupt because of medical costs, if someone loses their job, they still have access to health care -- everyone has access to health care in the UK. Wow, to me, this sounds great! Too bad my entire family lives here. I won't even move to another state.Cathy it is nice to have the reasurrance of healthcare. I know not everyone agrees with me but it should be your right to have access to medicines and doctors. Especially children and the elderlyMrs P also forgot to mentioned that if you have certain conditions you dont have to pay anything at all for your medication. I used to have a prepayment card, this cost £101.00 a year and as Mrs P says it covered everything. I have an underactive thyroid and take daily thyroxine tablets. Taking this medication entitles me to ALL my medication free. I've never understood why being a diabetic doesnt entitle you to the same 'perk' but it doesnt. I do work and pay into the system so am grateful that if I'm ill I'll be taken care of without having to worry about how I will pay for my medication...... I've said before it must be very stressful deciding which medication you can afford and what you can do without (when you shouldnt). Im packing up and moving to Norway!!! Hail queen SnowOwl!!
The NPR (National Public Radio) website has a series of short articles about universal health care systems in Germany, Switzerland, France, the UK and the Netherlands.

It also has an interactive graph that compares these systems with the US.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91972152

hi snowowl, picture a pic of what the queen looks like, pls

Here in the states, its very very hard to get disability and misunderstood by many.

The program is called medicaid and medicare ( i can never figure out the diff btwn the 2) lol.

The problem is that very few Dr's are willing to take patients w/ this, bc they are NOT fully reimbursed, very unfair.

The paperwork is unreal.

I'm very very grateful for it! Yes, of course, we have people here, who also abuse it.

The strange thing, here, is that most people and I mean medical people/ Drs.. won't tell you about all the different programs you're entitled to.

Its crazy!! You have to do soo much research, finding out what you're eligble for .

Its takes at least, usually.. 2 yrs, to get accepted onto disability.

One of the thing, that drives me crazy, i do a lot of surveys, and no where is disability put in, its usually unempolyed.. anyway, i disgress.. :P lol

YOu really just have to search and find what programs are out there, there is help for

lower phone costs heating help and much much more.

I just wish more people would get, its disability that I'm on.. NOT welfare.

I really can't work.

and yes, many many programs are being cut back, I'm getting everything i possibly can , all lined up Now!!

Our health care system is very complex, consisting of several public (government) health insurance programs and numerous private health insurance plans, each with varying costs, premiums, copays and different rules and coverage.

Medicaid and Medicare are federal government health programs. Medicaid is a state and federally funded health program for the low-income or poor. Individuals that qualify for SSI (Social Security Insurance for the disabled that are low-income/poor and lack qualifying pay periods to be eligible for SSDI) I believe are eligible for Medicaid.

Medicare is a health insurance program for those 65 and over, and for the disabled that qualified for benefits through SSDI (Social Security Disability Insurance -- workers pay payroll taxes into this program). However, disabled who receive SSDI are not eligible for Medicare until 2 years after they are approved for SSDI.

The low Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement rates to primary physicians, causes some doctors not to accept new Medicaid or Medicare patients. Congress, however, is looking to reform payment rates with the upcoming health care reform legislation that should be introduced this summer.

Our health care system is complex, so if I have misrepresented anything, please correct me.

Joie2009-05-01 12:28:58Pin, Wills~ I am wondering if wither of you have private insurance to supplement your tas payer funded insurance. Also, do the wealthy or even middle class recieve identical healthcare to low income families/individuals? If not, what are the differences?

Snow, I have a very good friend in Norway. He is low income, always complaining about the high taxes over their. He doesn't go to the dr unless he's practically on his deathbed because he can't take the time off work in order to wait all day at the clinic. So as Joie says, no system is wthout problems.

Snow~ I looked up Queen Sonja......that's what I pictured you to look like.

A lot of people get healthcare plans with their jobs or chose to take out a private medical insurances but mainly those who dont like to wait 3 or 4 weeks for an appointment to see a specialist. I havent had to wait for anything really, my daughter went into hospital with a stomach ache, they suspected appendicitis, admitted her and within a few hours had taken her apendix out. With the changes in the last year or two I think our health care system is very good.

Queen Sonja.. I mean Snow, can I be your lady in waiting doppleganger? Part of the retinue? I will help you get your Queen wave down and try not to trip on your train! waddie2009-05-01 15:50:29Opps! Pin, so is that the big thing that private insurance offers over NHS? I mean, the wait times? What happens when someone without insurance really needs a dr NOW? I don't mean for say a heart attack, I'm sure they would be able to go to a local ER. But what about if your kid has an ear infection and it really hurts but it isn't life threatening?

Another question, I read something recently (I just skimmed it so I don't really know details) about cancer deaths in Britain being alarmingly high. Is that due to NHS? If no, then why is the death rate so high?

An eight country survey of chronically ill adults, conducted by the Commonwealth Fund, found "that U.S. patients are significantly more likely to call for fundamental change in their country's health care system, with a third saying the system needs to be rebuilt completely."

From the HealthAffairs.org website:

"The 2008 survey of 7,500 chronically ill patients in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States included adults who had a diagnosis of at least one of seven chronic conditions.

More than half (54%) of U.S. chronically ill patients did not get recommended care, fill prescriptions, or see a doctor when sick because of costs, compared to 7 to 36 percent in other countries. About one-third of U.S. patients—a higher rate than in any other country— experienced medical errors or poorly coordinated care, including delays in access to medical records or duplicated tests. Reflecting cost sharing as well as gaps in insurance coverage, 41 percent of U.S. patients spent more than ,000 in the past year on out-of-pocket medical costs, compared with 4 percent in the U.K. and 8 percent in the Netherlands."

"In addition to access barriers due to costs, U.S. chronically ill patients often experienced long waits to see primary care physicians and difficulty getting care after hours, and often turned to emergency rooms for care. Canadians also reported such primary care access concerns.

-- Only one-quarter (26%) of U.S. and Canadian patients reported same-day access to doctors when they were sick—and one-fourth or more reported long waits. In contrast, about half or more of Dutch (60%), New Zealand (54%), and U.K. (48%) patients were able to get a same-day appointment.

-- U.S. patients were the most likely to find it very difficult to get after-hours care without going to an emergency room: 40 percent said it was very difficult, compared with only 15 percent in the Netherlands and Germany, the lowest rates of any country on this measure.

-- In the past two years, 59 percent of U.S. patients visited an emergency room; only Canada had higher rates (64%). In both countries, one in five said they went to the ER for a condition that could have been cared for by a regular doctor if one had been available.

Looking at care by insurance status within the United States, the study finds that insured as well as uninsured patients in the U.S. are at high risk for access, coordination, and safety problems. Two of five (43%) chronically ill U.S. patients who were insured all year skipped care because of costs, well above rates in other countries. However, the uninsured were at very high risk for not getting needed care, with a startling 82 percent forgoing prescriptions or recommended care despite their chronic conditions.

Experiences of inefficient care were frequent for insured as well as uninsured patients, with 43 percent of insured U.S. patients reporting wasteful or disorganized care and one-third encountering coordination problems.

TO READ COMPLETE ARTICLE SEE;

http://www.healthaffairs.org/press/novdec0802.htm

Snow~ Be careful that your head doesn't get too big to wear a tiara!Diet Pepsi it is! And don't be too sure about the comfort food. My Norwegian friend told me once that a man sued the city for a car because he was very short and people riding the bus teased him. This was embarrassing to him so he felt the taxpayers owed him his own set of wheels where he could drive around un-picked on. He won! Their has to be a way to get your snacks, on them. [QUOTE=SnowOwl]The health care in Norway sounds too good to be true. I read that people diagnosed with RA are eligible for state-paid spa vacations. Notwithstanding that Norway is a very expensive and rather restrictive place to live, by what I've read anyway, their health care still tempts me to write "home" and send a photo (I'm a doppleganger for their Queen Sonja - when she was my present age, and I'll probably continue to look just like her as I age - except I have a widow's peak hairline), asking if I might have some honorary if not outright repatriation benefits... I'm only a generation removed![/QUOTE]

I'm 2 generations removed. My boys were very excited to hear that our ancestors are Vikings.Linncn

SorryI see what you mean...Yes we can see a docotor for anything when ever we want to. My daughter had a sore throat and ear last week, I phoned my doctors office and she was seen that afternoon. My husband had a patch of dry skin on his face that wouldnt clear up,our doctor does minor surgeries in his office so he took it out there and then and sent it away.

If you look at my disability forms that My G.P. filled in , there is a question that says "How Often do you see this patient"? He wrote Every 2 weeks?

There is only waiting times on hospital appointments with specialists but I really havent has to wait longet than a few weeks.

All blood tests are done through my doctors office . Our doctors are great, you go into see them and as they are family doctors, he always asks how everyones is and never tries to rush you through you r appointment.

My rheumy is the same, he takes his time, gives you an emergency no. incase you have any problems.

Like anywhere we do have some rotton Dr's...The one I had before was awful but I had the choice to change so there are no restrictions.

The problem we have here is that the NHS is very under staffed and that is why the waiting times can be longer.

Sorry Linncn I missed this

I think this has to do with the screening age in this country.( its the same whether you are private insurance or NHS ) They are trying to lower it . If you really insist on a test due to something abnormal in your family history im sure they would look at it.

My father died of a massive heart attack due to an underlying condition he had from childhood. My G.P. decided it was safer if I was screened because of gene related problems. I saw a heart specilaist and had various blood tests, Myoview scans etc . There was nothing wrong thank goodness but it did but my mind at rest. My sister goes to a different G.P. than I do and wasnt offered anything like this, so it does depend on the doctor you have.

This link outlines health care costs/services in NZ in a basic way!

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/nzopportunities/lifestyle/health/

So really New Zealand is like here but you just pay a fee to see your G.P. and prescriptions. Do you still have to pay thoses costs if you are unemployed?I pay to see my GP and claim those costs back from our private insurance. Unemployed and low wage earners get a Community Services card which entitles them to discounts on Dr fees etc. I think I only paid for my last lot of prescriptions.....6 different meds, yhe Govt subsidised the balance.

And some here complain!! Again thats a good healthcare plan. I cant believe some people have to pay hundreds of dollars for medicines and treatment, if they dont have the money , they dont get better..

Your prescription charges are better than ours Lyn, we pay £7.10 ( I think) for the first one then pay for each other one at a slightly lower cost, its ok if you go in for one thing and not that often but when its multiple meds it can be expensive. Thats why I have a prepayment card, I pay £9 a month and that allows me as many meds as the doctors prescribe.

Terminally ill or cancer patients do not have to pay for their prescriptions at all.

We get people here who complain all the time but if they read this board and realised how much some people are paying for health costs they wouldnt be so quick to judge.

Pin, everyone with socialized medicine~ what would you say are the drawbacks of your healthcare systems?I have to agree w/ Linncn.... I pictured SnowOwl to appear like Queen Sonja too........ beautfiul and regal.....

this has been an interesting thread.....thanks for the honest information!!

[QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]Again thats a good healthcare plan. I cant believe some people have to pay hundreds of dollars for medicines and treatment, if they dont have the money , they dont get better..

It isn't really like that here though, Pin. Unless it's a private hospital, they cannot turn away someone in need of medical treatment. There are several stores in my area that give antibiotics (and some other rx) away at no charge. There are several orginizations that help low income families with medical expenses. And the vast majority of US citizens do have insurance. I will say again that our system needs some changes, but the critisism should at least be honest. Some here on the board paint a much much bleaker picture than what it is in actuality.

From all of you in with socialized healthcare we only hear what's good about it. But from some here in the US, all you hear about is the problems. We should turn it around for a day, where Americans can only present the positives, and the rest can only present the negatives. We'd come away with a totally different point of view.

[QUOTE=Linncn]Pin, everyone with socialized medicine~ what would you say are the drawbacks of your healthcare systems?[/QUOTE]

I can't think of any drawbacks of our healthcare system. I've never in all my life encountered anything bad so far. That's not to say someone else here hasn't. But for me, I'm 100% satisfied with the care I get here.

Ok...I just thought of one thing that I'm a bit worried about. Right now I spend nothing on doctors visits...hospital stays...speicalists...anyt type of treatment. But..my prescriptions are paid under my husbands work benifits. He will be losing his job (Closing the doors and going to Mexico) the end of this July, so I will have to pay for my prescriptions after January 2010. (when his benifits run out)

Hopefully he'll find another job before that happens. But that's my only worry as far as healthcare goes.

Linncn

You are right there WERE lots of problems with it..and still are. I have been back in the UK for 15 years now and 15 years ago the healthcare was a mess but it has got so much better. The waiting time for a new appointment with a rheumy was 6 months( now 2 weeks), ER waiting times were 4 to 6 hours..now you get seen ( well in my area) within 20 mins by a triage nurse and then depending on the severitiy of the emergency quite quickly.

They listened to what the public wanted and have tried to change the policies.

The problem with socialized care I would say are the lack of hospital staff. Medically trained staff would rather practice in the private field as the pay is so much more . The lack of staff makes it difficult for them to be in 2 places at once and they are run off their feet exhausted...Where I live its not that bad but in some areas I know that there is a terrible shortage of nurses, midwives and doctors.

Dental treatment is totally different. We have to pay huge amounts for dental treatment , even if you have no insurance the prices are way over the top..From my sjogrens I have had a lot of trouble with my teeth. I needed a root canal, it cost me £400 cash, i needed some veneers on my front teeth £850 per veneer x 3 . The worst of it is, if you dont work and are claiming the dole ( money the government give people who dont work) all your dental work is free, if you are a drug addict all dental work is free, if you are a convict all dental work is free...if you suffer from n illness and it messes with your teeth its expensive!!!..think Ill rob a bank and get it done for free.

There are a lot of people on the board Linncn that do paint a terrible story of your health system, I was under the impression that if you didnt have insurance then you fought tooth and nail to get medicines to treat you and went with out other stuff so you could get those meds...

Kel, your healthcare sounds like ours too, Are your prescription charges expensive?Thanks for your honest answers, I appreciate that [QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]We have had the NHS for so long in this country that its just taken for granted. Friends I know have moved back here when one or the other has been diagnosed with a chronic illness, just for the medical care they are given. Linncn there is no wrong or right way but if socialised health care is brought into the USA there will def. be teething problems, its taken the UK a long time to sort theirs out[/QUOTE]

Pin,

Neither the Administration (President Obama) nor Congress are considering "socialized medicine." Neither support a government run or single payer system. Health care reform being discussed by Congress would build on our current system of public (government) and private health insurance.

The fear and threat of socialized medicine has been used to block numerous reform efforts.
Yet many now agree we need reform. Our health care system is not financially sustainable, it leaves 46 million uninsured, and increasing health care costs are an increasing burden for businesses and families, states and the federal government. Accusations of socialized medicine, however, will likely continue about any reform proposal that is not based on letting private insurance companies and for profit stakeholders rule our health care system.

I have to chime in here as yesterday I had to get two of my prescriptions filled. The total cost of #1 was .90 and I paid .97, the cost of #2 was 8.94 and I paid .73. The difference was paid by pharmacare. The 8.67 will be submitted to Extended Health and we will get 80% of that back so the total cost to me out of my pocket for 8.57 will be .94 .

We were starting to have a backup problem with orthopedic surgeries so they added another surgeon to make a total of 5 now for a population of aprox. 5000. This is a sports oriented town so there are a lot of sports related injuries.

I do not know how true this is Linncn but I heard someone on the news say that there is so many unnecesary people involved in the healthcare system that if they eliminated half of them it could pay for a new system to be set up. It seems like it is the same all over. You have someone to oversee something that is suppose to be overseeing a certain program. It is the same here, if they eliminate the unnessary they could be saving a bundle. You have to have faith in what this new government is trying to do and if and when the roof falls in then you can call him anything and everything but you have to admit, he is trying.

Teed~ I don't have faith in our new administration or our federal government in general. I thik that their main motivation is power and money. And it'll be too late after the fact. I do think that there is a lot of wasteful spending and fraud in our current system. Part of that is that doctors have to do every test under the sun in order to protect themselves from lawsuits. Why not clean up those kinds of things within the system we have now instead of just scrapping the whole thing?

[QUOTE=Linncn]

[/QUOTE]

I agree Linncn, it is a shame that they cannot find a way to clean out all the garbage in our systems. For some reason, there are very few lawsuits against Drs. here in Canada. I've seen some cases that there definately should have been a lawsuit but no. Maybe Kelstev could answer that one.

All you can do, I guess, is pray that something can be done to help the masses.

first, i have to totally disagree, I think OBAMA will be very fair. I mean compared to Bush, ??!! You've got to be kidding, bush was alll about the Rich, he never understood a thing about the poor.

(ok I had to disgress, that was ot, so back to topic

The ONE main thing , that drives me crazy about our health care system, at least for

medicaid/care is you're only allowed to see ONE DR, that day.

Many people have to take buses, are ill, most of the time. So not being able to see a couple of Drs, in one day, is a HUGE disadvantage... i've lived thru this.

On my few good days, when I could actually get out, i still was only able to see ONE Dr a day, thats nuts and makes no sense. Esp since our Bus fare has gone wayyyyyyy up.

A lot of my Dr's were all nearby, or even in the same med complex. I have a real hard time, getting out, even w/ my providers and having to pay gas, esp to the places that are far.

I feel esp bad, for those who have to use the bus , all the time.

It doesn't matter if you just need to go 2 blocks or a couple of miles, its still 2 bucks

(one for medicaid).. You used to be able to use "transfer tickets" that were good, for a couple of hrs, so you could do several errands, for 2 dollars. GREAT system... well when gas went up, they discontinued that. Even tho gas is much lower now, its still 2 dolalrs, for the majority, no matter where you go and how short you stay.. very unfair.

I realize that 2 bucks, doesn't seem like much, but think of the homeless, the really poor.

If they need to make 4 trips that day, short ones, instead of 2 bucks, they're now paying 8 bucks. Yes, we have monthly passes, but if you're homeless.. they can't afford that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whispered2009-05-02 11:05:53[QUOTE=Joie] [QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]We have had the NHS for so long in this country that its just taken for granted. Friends I know have moved back here when one or the other has been diagnosed with a chronic illness, just for the medical care they are given. Linncn there is no wrong or right way but if socialised health care is brought into the USA there will def. be teething problems, its taken the UK a long time to sort theirs out[/QUOTE]

Pin,

Neither the Administration (President Obama) nor Congress are considering "socialized medicine." Neither support a government run or single payer system. Health care reform being discussed by Congress would build on our current system of public (government) and private health insurance.

[/QUOTE]

This is sort of true, but not exactly. What Mr. Obama says is that he does support single payer healthcare (socialization) but we can't do it now because there is already a system in place that we have to work with. He said that if he were starting from scratch that's (socialization) what he would like to do. And he hopes that in the future we can move toward that. So, socilaization may not be in the next year or two, but that is the ultimate goal.

From the transcript of Obama's March 26, 2009 "Open for Questions" town hall meeting:

DR. BERNSTEIN: This next question -- an area close to your heart -- health care reform. From Richard in California: "Why can we not have a universal health care system, like many European countries, where people are treated based on needs rather than financial resources?"

THE PRESIDENT: . . .

Now, the question is, if you're going to fix it, why not do a universal health care system like the European countries? I actually want a universal health care system; that is our goal. I think we should be able to provide health insurance to every American that they can afford and that provides them high quality.

So I think we can accomplish it. Now, whether we do it exactly the way European countries do or Canada does is a different question, because there are a variety of ways to get to universal health care coverage.

A lot of people think that in order to get universal health care, it means that you have to have what's called a single-payer system of some sort. And so Canada is the classic example: Basically, everybody pays a lot of taxes into the health care system, but if you're a Canadian, you're automatically covered. And so you go in -- England has a similar -- a variation on this same type of system. You go in and you just say, "I'm sick," and somebody treats you, and that's it.

The problem is, is that we have what's called a legacy, a set of institutions that aren't that easily transformed. Let me just see a show of hands: How many people here have health insurance through your employer? Okay, so the majority of Americans, sort of -- partly for historical accident. I won't go into -- FDR had imposed wage controls during war time in World War II. People were -- companies were trying to figure out how to attract workers. And they said, well, maybe we'll provide health care as a benefit.

And so what evolved in America was an employer-based system. It may not be the best system if we were designing it from scratch. But that's what everybody is accustomed to. That's what everybody is used to. It works for a lot of Americans. And so I don't think the best way to fix our health care system is to suddenly completely scrap what everybody is accustomed to and the vast majority of people already have. Rather, what I think we should do is to build on the system that we have and fill some of these gaps."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Open-for-Questions-Town-Hall/

Well, no one said he isn't a good dancer. However he has also said that single payer is what he likes and although we can't jump right in to that because of the system that is already in place, single payer healthcare could be in our future. You can take it or leave it, but that's what he said. I'm leaving my house right now, but if you want I will try to supply the link where he is quoted when I get home later.

Linncn, you mentioned schools, well our schools over here are not good. The system is wrong . There is a lack of good basic education, basic math and english..do you know our high school kids taking fishing as an exam. Physical education in my daughters year ( she is 1 year away from leaving) has been stopped because the have to make up the hairdressing class time .???????? but maths was cut to 2 hours a week..homework is non existant and I have a daughter who had her appendix taken out in january, she was off for 2 weeks and her teacher decided to tell the kids that she wasnt coming back to school due to depression...or rather the term she used was my daughter is a "nut job"....We have the teacher suspended at the moment pending an investigation on defamation of character on a student...so there is a lot wrong with the education herePin, my daughter has a class where the teacher has set up a little comfy cubby~in case any of her students need a nap during class. Can you believe that??? Shame to hear this type of thing is going on over there too.Joy~ I don't really want to get back into this "argument". Obama is who he is regardless of what either of us thinks and time will reveal the truth about that to us. Their is nothing worthwhile in a back and forth over what he said or when he said it becuase the die is cast. I can still find the quotes that I read if you want though, but after that I'm stepping out of this arena.Neither the President nor Congress support a single payer system.

Representative John Conyers and Representative John Dingell have both introduced single payer legislation -- HR 676 and HR 2034. Neither bill has ever been heard in committee. Why? Because neither the President nor Congress support a single payer system.

In March, the White House held a Forum on Health Care. 150 leaders from Congress, business, medicine, and consumer groups were there to discuss health care reform. Single payer advocates were excluded, but the White House reconsidered, and Rep. John Conyers, author of HR 676 and Dr. Oliver Fein, President of the Physicians for National Health Insurance Program were allowed to attend -- but not address the group (unlike Karen Ignani, spokesperson and CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans). Why were Rep. Conyers and Dr. Fein initially not invited and not allowed to address the group? Because neither the President nor Congress support a single payer system.

Health care reform legislation is now being discussed and drafted in congressional committees with jurisdiction over health care. A key legislator on health care reform, Senator Baccus, chair of the Senate Finance Committee, has said that the single-payer option is “off the table” and “not politically feasible."

Neither the President nor Congress support a single payer system.

[QUOTE=Linncn]

[/QUOTE]

Linncn. i would love to see where he has said he supports a single payer system as I cannot find this. There is plenty of documentation to support that he does not support single payer. I think it is important for people to quit quoting what they hear and what they read in chain emails and do some fact checking. I think it will alleviate at least some ofl the negativity about this administration. I didn't read it in a chain mail Lorster. Maybe I just read more thouroughly than you do.

You know, I checked to see what you posted because I wondered what obnoxious thing you would have to say. You didn't disappoint.

Find the quote yourself, miss fact check. Or don't bother, you''ll dismiss it anyway.

[QUOTE=lorster] [QUOTE=Linncn]

[/QUOTE]

Linncn. i would love to see where he has said he supports a single payer system as I cannot find this. There is plenty of documentation to support that he does not support single payer. I think it is important for people to quit quoting what they hear and what they read in chain emails and do some fact checking. I think it will alleviate at least some ofl the negativity about this administration. [/QUOTE]

There is plenty of bullsh*t and misinformation on ALL sides of this argument. Please don't pretend that the right has a monopoly on propaganda.

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