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My question: is AP a possible treatment for ALL autoimmune diseases or just RA?

 
and since the "new AP's" conversation has gotten so big, i was wondering just how many people on this board are on AP?
AP people will tell you yes but personally I believe it depends on the particular disease involved for example it may be useful in autoimmune diseases that involve inflammation but probably isnt real helpful in something like Type 1 (Juvenile) DiabetesNo research is available on AP and diabetes other than in vivo and in vitro testing.  OK, nothing for humans.  There is interesting diabetes information coming out of Canada (go unversal health care research!) showing if you stop the inflammation in the pancreas, the pancreas will start producing insulin again - something they thought was impossible with Type 1 diabetes.  The were using substance P, which is the operative ingredient in chili peppers - and is an anti-microbial.
 
My husband is LADA and wanted to start AP for that but we had to use the OA angle which was hard enough when he went CCP positive.  We have no idea yet if this is 'helping his numbers' yet.
 
As for AP - of course I'm a strong proponant.  I seriously suggest you check out www.roadback.org and watch the various diseases for yourself.  The big ones seem to be scleroderma, Lupus, RA.  There were some CFIDS people a while ago and various 'smaller' AI diseases. 
 
Clufus - come to your own decision.  Lurk, listen and learn.  These anti's on AI will tell you it doesn't work for severe - decide for yourself. 
 
Anyone who has the time to check out a AI, has the time to lurk there.  JMHO.
 
Hugs,
 
Pip
PS - a totally different 'feel' of a BB tho.  You'll figure it out within a few months.  ;-)
 
Edited for multiple spelling errors.
Pip!2009-05-08 05:58:26AP is also used on long term bladder infections, Its how I thought it might help me. I was put on low dose antibiotic for 8 months for constant bladder infection, it did help but I also found my RA was so much better. When I stopped I went into a terrific flare. I am severe. Was diagnosed as severe years ago.Pin -
 
That flare you describe is VERY common when abx are stopped.  What they treat a UTI with and what they treat RA with are different families of abx.  Bacteriocides vs bacteriostatics (spelling).  One is a 'slash and burn' and one 'inhibits proteins on the microbe'.
 
When people get to no symptoms for a few years, then they come off the Mino and about 2 years later, rebound from hell.  That's the 'wishful thinking' aspect I talk about.  When I skipped my meds and supps I flared and I was only off for a month - obviously less healed than I thought.  Then again, my RF was stiff sky high to that was pretty stupid of me.
 
This is an old study about the diseases using the same pathways.  Nikkilynn has recently posted a much more recent article which went into much more detail which I'm sure she'll be happy to repost.
 
Pip
 
http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/news/Oct2001/AutoimmuneDiseasesMayBeRelated.html
clufus - I was so close to realizing antibiotics worked for me right before finally being diagnosed.  I had realized for years that after being given ABX for my chronic "sinusitis", I would feel great overall.  Then it would slowly fade away and a few years would go by, and another trip to the doctor and "chronic sinusitis", ABX RX, and would feel great again.
 
I was begging my primary to let me try a long course of ABX, and she refused.  The very last thing I did before DX was go down to public health for a TB test, as with my chest pain, it was the only thing I could figure out what could be wrong.  And being from Alaska with its high incidence of TB, it was a good guess. 
 
The books that are recommended and the personal stories on Roadback talk about recoveries of people with different types of autoimmune diseases.  It's slowly coming around by the medical field to infection being a part of the equation, so perhaps someday the proper studies will happen and then we will know.  I have read the frustration of doctors as they are sure there is an infectious component to RA, but haven't been able to quite capture it for proof.  But the ACR classifying it as a DMARDS (for MILD RA) says alot in my opinion. 
 
Good luck.  Cathy
Pip...you SUCK
 
justsaynoemore...you SUCK more
 
Prickcushion...you SUCK everything, try bathing "down there" and maybe you wouldn't get so many bladder infections.  Or maybe you should stop prostituting yourself to so many different men, you're a walking disease I'm sure.  Pip,JSNM, Pin-
 
Thanks for the shares.
 
[QUOTE=clufus]My question: is AP a possible treatment for ALL autoimmune diseases or just RA?
 
and since the "new AP's" conversation has gotten so big, i was wondering just how many people on this board are on AP?
[/QUOTE]
 
I have PA (palindromic arthritis) which is also an AI disease. 
 
PA patients are treated the exactly the same as RA patients, with the same drugs and treatment options. 
 
After researching my disease and as many of the treatment options I could over a 4 mth period I decided to treat my disease with AP and thanks to people I met along the way was able to find a doctor who did prescribe & is having success with AP treatment.  
 
I am motivated by Pip & others to continue in my treatment path. 
 
Good luck in your research,
Maz
ps --- My own doctor who initially was not an advocate for AP and did not agree with the infection theory has now changed his mind and has started prescribing AP for his RA patients. 
 
 
 
 
The question Clufus should be how many on this board with rheumatoid arthritis are on AP. Maybe one if you can believe her. Maz-Aust, Pip, Marissa have palindromic rheumatism. They like to call it palindromic rheumatoid arthritis but it's palindromic rheumatism. There is a forum just for palindromic rheumatism but they prefer to spend their time and information here trying to tell us with rheumatoid arthritis how we should treat our disease. People with palindromic rheumatism have many luxuries that we with rheumatoid arthritis don't have. Palindromics can play with their medicines because there are no repercussions. Palindromic rheumatism does no joint or bone damage. How sweet is that. Wouldn't it be nice if we with ra wouldn't have to worry about joint and bone damage. We with rheumatoid arthritis have it constantly. Palindromics may have pain and swelling that lasts for hours or even days (ooooo) and then just disappears for weeks or month or years and then may come back again for a few hours or days (ooooo). Must be nice. All most all these AP/roadback pushers do not have rheumatoid arthritis.
 
LEV
What about Justsaynoemore and Pincussion?  Are you conveniently leaving them off your hit list?[QUOTE=clufus]My question: is AP a possible treatment for ALL autoimmune diseases or just RA?
 
and since the "new AP's" conversation has gotten so big, i was wondering just how many people on this board are on AP?
[/QUOTE]
 
Believe I answered both questions ....
I have a different AI disease and I am using AP treatment.
 
Edited to add this bit
The AI disease I have is known by a lot of names - the rheumatologists I have seen here call it Palindromic Arthritis and I was diagnosed with Palindromic Arthritis. 
 
 
 
Maz-aust2009-05-11 18:51:37

Which of those two can actually be believed? Pincusion has told so many lies here that her credibility is nil. You don't know what's true and what's not. She has proven that she is very willing to lie. Jsnm, what about her, she has issues, real issues. How 'bout you TeedOff? Have you decided on AP for your "secret" disease? Have you spent alot of time at the roadback gathering information? Anything you'd care to share with us rheumatoid arthritis sufferers? Teed, you should study up on rheumatoid arthritis so that you know what we with rheumatoid arthritis are dealing with. Of course, I guess you'de really just have to live it, not just be a member of a ra forum and pretend.

LEV

Lev Baby !! 

You live in a world of fantasy, you actually believe you are credible !!   You seriously have too much time on your hands. 

Is there any time when you Lev support or give assistance to others ???  Think the answer to that is a resounding NOOOOO !

 

[QUOTE=levlarry]

Which of those two can actually be believed? Pincusion has told so many lies here that her credibility is nil. You don't know what's true and what's not. She has proven that she is very willing to lie. Jsnm, what about her, she has issues, real issues. How 'bout you TeedOff? Have you decided on AP for your "secret" disease? Have you spent alot of time at the roadback gathering information? Anything you'd care to share with us rheumatoid arthritis sufferers? Teed, you should study up on rheumatoid arthritis so that you know what we with rheumatoid arthritis are dealing with. Of course, I guess you'de really just have to live it, not just be a member of a ra forum and pretend.

LEV
[/QUOTE]
 
You are great at calling everyone else a liar but remember, when you are pointing the finger at someone else you have three that are pointing right back at you.
Everyone else in here are liars except you.  The one with the biggest issue is you.  As I said before, I put my current status and pending status out there but you and your pack were so intent on attacking me it went over your thick heads.
Not to trash like you Maz. Remember you came to this rheumatoid arthritis forum at Pip's request for the sole purpose of a smack down. People that do that at a serious disease forum is trash, trash.I am very supportive of this forum and the members with rheumatoid arthritis. I believe that people with palindromic rheumatism like you and Pip and Marissa need to spend your time and information at the palindromic forum. Your disease is not anything like our disease or for what this forum was created for.
 
LEV
Teed,
 
It didn't go over my head. I knew from the beginning you didn't have rheumatoid arthritis back when you tried to fool us all about your disease. You have no real support for those that do have rheumatoid arthritis. You are nothing more than an agitator. You are the arthritisinsight tumblebug.
 
LEV
 
[QUOTE=levlarry]Teed,
 
It didn't go over my head. I knew from the beginning you didn't have rheumatoid arthritis back when you tried to fool us all about your disease. You have no real support for those that do have rheumatoid arthritis. You are nothing more than an agitator. You are the arthritisinsight tumblebug.
 
LEV
 
[/QUOTE]
 
The all seeing, the all knowing, Karnak the Magnificent!!!!!
[QUOTE=levlarry]Not to trash like you Maz. Remember you came to this rheumatoid arthritis forum at Pip's request for the sole purpose of a smack down. People that do that at a serious disease forum is trash, trash.I am very supportive of this forum and the members with rheumatoid arthritis. I believe that people with palindromic rheumatism like you and Pip and Marissa need to spend your time and information at the palindromic forum. Your disease is not anything like our disease or for what this forum was created for.
 
LEV
[/QUOTE]
 
Come on Lev put your money where your mouth is,
 
YOU say YOU support people on this forum and members with rheumatoid arthritis, OK Lev PROVE IT !!
Who have you supported?  Back up any answers with proof.
 
I don't think I have ever read anything remotely like you supporting any other member.  You don't have time to support anyone Lev, you are too busy berating everyone you come across.
 
You expect us to believe you just because you say so, I don't think so Lev -- you are too much of a bully for that!!
 
 
 
 
[QUOTE=Maz-aust]YOU say YOU support people on this forum and members with rheumatoid arthritis, OK Lev PROVE IT !!
 
 
I too have had much support from lev in multiple ways .. on board with answers to questions and in PM when he explained in detail some information to me....... always w/ consideration..... I guess, in this networld as in the big bad world... you get what you give !!  Thanks lev.
 
and Maz.....  let's not attack people for lying or false representation, ok? 
 
[QUOTE=Spelunker] [QUOTE=Maz-aust]YOU say YOU support people on this forum and members with rheumatoid arthritis, OK Lev PROVE IT !!
Who have you supported?  Back up any answers with proof.[/quote]
Lev was very supportive of me when I initially joined this forum and immediately came under fire for asking questions. Since then, Lev has always answered any question I have asked him either publicly or in PM promptly and with consideration.

Lev has said more than once that he is not a hugs and love kinda guy. He pulls no punches and states his opinion without frills or apology. However, that does not mean he is not supportive, it just means he is straightforward and outspoken. His style is not soft nor cuddly and he can be abrasive, but he presents some well-researched and important articles and participates throughout the site which in and of itself is supportive.

From watching the dynamics of this forum for the past weeks my impression is that if Lev is approached politely, without BS, and in a sincere manner he reciprocates. Lev is, without a doubt, very good at returning what is presented to him. If he is approached in a provocative manner he responds provocatively; if he is approached with anger or accusation, he responds in kind.

If you truly need proof begin on page 85 or so of the AP thread where I posted some questions and several of the regular members on that thread, you included Maz, began a campaign of name calling, denigration, and divisiveness.

Additionally, Lev has been supportive and interested in my pending decision regarding adding minocycline to my combination therapy. He has asked intelligent questions and has encouraged me to do what I need to do to reach remission.

Frankly, calling Lev or anyone else a bully has just about as much impact on this site as calling someone a moron does. The denigration is used so often that it is meaningless. Yet name calling continues to takes the place of conversation. I just do not understand that tendency; not from anyone.

Clufus, I apologize for taking your thread even further off topic than it was.

Best wishes, Shug
[/QUOTE] Well,
 
Let's see Pincusion, you made up lies about InflamedOnline and you were going to show the proof or apologise. You never showed the proof because there was none, you lied. You lied about ernestpr and said you had the proof. Of course that was a lie. You lied and said that I made racist statements against you godchildren because they are black. Back up just these three. You started a thread called for levlarry Ot ot and tried to lie your way out of the racist remarks. What kind of person makes such ugly statements about another on the www. You made that filthy lie three times. You knew it wasn't true and you are so inside ugly, you couldn't apologize and at least let people know that there is some good in you. You couldn't apologise because there isn't good in you. I believe that you are now on a "us and them" agenda and as sad as it is, I don't believe that you can be believed with you AP results, how sad is that? You have ruined your own charachter all by yourself. You have bared your soul and it is way past ugly. How can you make such statements about someone. Yuck. What made you?
 
LEV
Maz, you haven't been here long enough nor helpful enough to decide who is supportive or not. How dare you, Lev is very smart AND helpful. You, like Pip and Suzanne, don't even have RA so why are you here?

AP has been proven to be a MILD DMARD for RA, many autoimune diseases are so serious that it doesn't make sense to even try something that is mild esp since it has been proven for that antibiotics don't "cure" the AI disease. We need antibiotics for other diseases, even acne has adjusted to tetracycline now. It seems esp stupid to me that some people are taking 2 and 3 antibiotics and it still is not stopping the disease. Wake up and try the real drugs.Lev....I did say I hadproof about inflammed...at no time did i say I would tell you. so no not a lie!
I also didnt say I was going to give you any proof about ernest...so no not a lie again.
Also when you said i used mygod children as a race card, I was telling the truth as it was what you said....so no lie again...
And from using the word "ugly inside" I gather you are Lisa0nline as its what she said in a PM to me.....
[QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]Lev....I did say I hadproof about inflammed...at no time did i say I would tell you. so no not a lie!

 

 

 

Are you saying I am "Lisa"? Nah...I saw her in her anonymous state writing a reply for here.
 
She chickened out. [QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]Lev....you stated that I have told so many lies that my believability is nil?????? come on Lev show me my lies and back them up with facts.  I have RA !I'm being treated with AP...show where I'm lying...do you know my rheumy? do you have copies of my xrays?   I want facts now Lev. [/QUOTE]
 
I know a lie from just yesterday...you saying that you had long hair, not once, not twice, a LOT of times.  ROFLMAO
 
[QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]Lev....I did say I hadproof about inflammed...at no time did i say I would tell you. so no not a lie!
I also didnt say I was going to give you any proof about ernest...so no not a lie again.
Also when you said i used mygod children as a race card, I was telling the truth as it was what you said....so no lie again...
And from using the word "ugly inside" I gather you are Lisa0nline as its what she said in a PM to me.....
[/QUOTE]
 
YOU lied about IO, you did lie about ernest, and you lied about AA.  AND YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LIED ABOUT THE WHOLE GODCHILDREN THING!!!!!  You never proved THAT at all, he isn't racist and you certainly showed nothing to refute that.  Frankly, I'M SICK OF HEARING ABOUT YOUR EFFIN GODCHILDREN, how do you like that fat ass? 'Lisa' chickadee...has it not OCCURRED to you that many of us here know what Pincushion looks like? And has it not OCCURRED to you that she just may have been stirring you up?
And it worked? You have been ROFL because ' she lied'??
 
Sheesh...who's the dumb ass now huh?
 
Oh I forgot, Im off to bed.
 
Nitey nite. Again. Nite Lyndeenz......
I tell you its like having two puppy dogs...first Lisa0nline and then Pigcushion....they follow me everywhere, take every scrap I feed them and then look confused when the scraps arent what they thought they were....ok pups its off to dog training classes with you......!!

 
Regardless...............she lied and hey, a lie is a lie is a lie.  It's just normal for her to lie.
[QUOTE=Mrs Pincushion]Nite Lyndeenz......
I tell you its like having two puppy dogs...first Lisa0nline and then Pigcushion....they follow me everywhere, take every scrap I feed them and then look confused when the scraps arent what they thought they were....ok pups its off to dog training classes with you......!!
[/QUOTE]
 
Wow, that kind sounds like something IO would say.  I bet you WERE IO weren't you?
 
You're still a LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psssssst  Pin....
lets pretend we were IO and AA huh? Give this poor wee sausage something to really blow about?? Whaddya think?
Totally amazing that some 'so called' lies have her so damned stirred up! And this from a foul mouthed piece of Devil spawn. <<<<shakes head>>>>
 
Thanks for the days amusement 'Lisa'.
 
lolol  
 
 
 

How's THAT for foul language?Precisely as expected! Hey Lyndeenz...oops..who do you wanna be...Im not sure I want to play the part of AA...a bit too sick in the head.  Ill do the IO bit but not sure I can act that stupid...!!
 
Ill have to put it on hold for a bit as im off out for a while....sure we will work it out though.....
[QUOTE=Maz-aust]

Lev Baby !! 

You live in a world of fantasy, you actually believe you are credible !!   You seriously have too much time on your hands. 

Is there any time when you Lev support or give assistance to others ???  Think the answer to that is a resounding NOOOOO !

 

[/QUOTE]
 
 
Pincushion and Lyndee................YOU are perfect examples of the losers of this board, only here to stir up the sh*t.Take your blinkers off Lovie! janiefx12009-05-12 06:16:29

 
Hmmmmmmmmmm, let's see, is it Prickcushion or Lazy-LyndeeNZ?
Lisa0nline2009-05-12 06:22:12hey,it's loser Lisa, isn't it time for your meds?

Yesssssssssss, sounds like PRICKCUSHION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dont think so......im you and you are me......you are my alter ego..hahahahahaha Guys, come on.  If you have a problem with someone, why don't you take it to a PM.  This is ridiculous.
kweenb...tried that...the PM's just get posted back on here and I could ignore if I chose to but im sick of being called names and have my motives scrutinized everytime i say something on here.
It is ridiculous i agree, but even normal topics are commented on and they get hijacked.
I'm not sure if this makes you feel any better, but the rest of us can see right through those that are trying to ruffle your feathers.  It's not like we are going to believe what they type.  BUT, I can see your point that you want to defend yourself.  I probably would too.
it will die down, we know that...it always does. I still read all the good posts before I read these silly ones and i PM those who I think I can help rather than commenting on here so it gives the trolls nothing to add.... [QUOTE=Lisa0nline]




[/QUOTE]


I thought you were a good christian woman. You know, you cross the line at this point Lisa.baaaa haaaa haaa, I'm not even a woman dumb ass, where've you been?  Get your head out of your ass! 
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