I was diagnosed with RA and Lupus about 5 months ago. After seeing 3 Rheumatologists who said it was too soon to treat I resorted to alternative means. I am 48, run 5 miles a day, am in great physical shape and own my own business and travel often. I went to one of the best Alternative MD's in NYC who put me on an organic diet, supplement i.e. Invite Vitamins, Fish Oil, Green Tea Drops, Milled Flaxseed and a Toxic cleansing daily drink. I've always watched what I ate so the organic diet was not a problem. He recommended a vegan diet but I felt that was a bit extreme. He suggested no meat and limited night shade foods. He also recommended meditation and acupuncture for the pain. I am happy to say that the inflammation has been reduced in my blood work and I am feeling much better following this regimen. The purpose of this course of action is to strengthen the immune system and reduce the imflammation. I am a true believer in alternative medicene and support it completely. Perhaps I will have to resort to medications should the disease worsen but for now I am getting wonderful results. The drugs out there for this disease all have horrible side effects and most of them reduce the quality of life. Most doctors will not support, recommend or consent to this course of action because it doesnt support the drug companies. I'm curious if anyone else is following anything remotely similar.
Trooper, I just wish that insurance companies would pay for the alternativelorster, alternative medical doctors should be covered by your insurance, mine is. he is an MD who practices both alternative and regular medicine, therefore he is covered. I dont know what type of insurance you have but you should try to find a doctor that takes your insurance even if its out of network and you have those benefits. Also insurance companies now offer a rider for alternative care. It maybe a higher premium but at least you would be covered for acupuncture and chiropractors. The 3 Rheumotologists I saw gave me absolutely nothing. They said my RA was the beginning stages and that drugs were not an option at this point. I would opt not to take the drugs even if they would help because they dont necessarily work and have so many side effects. For my alternative will be my choice until if and when the disease gets worse and I do not have an option. Organic diets, holistic remedies etc. do not necessarily get rid of the pain, but they help to build your immune system which is key to this disease.
Trooper, please explain why building up your immune system is key to Rheumatoid Arthritis.
LinB, I too am most curious about that - it seems counter-productive if RA is caused by an out of control immune response.Well, auto-immunity is only a theory. It just happens to be the one that the medical community is exploring at the moment. There are other theories as to what causes RA, such as infection. If the infection theory is correct, then you would want a strong immune system.I've been to two alternative medical doctors. One in LA and one in NY, both top in their field. Both have treated RA patients and have found that by building their immune system in the earlier stages of RA by organic diet, homeopaths, herbal supplements and acupuncture, the progression of the disease can slow and in some cases go into long remission periods. The use of the above reduces the inflammation in the system which actually is what causes the joint pain. RA is an auto immune disease and by strengthening your immune system it can only help. Its not a cure by any means, there is no cure. Perhaps your belief is the drug route. For me, my blood work as improved, I am feeling wonderful and the disease at this point has not progressed. May I also add that perhaps this is working for me because other than RA, I am in excellent health. I'm in great physical condition. Have followed good nutrition for years, workout 7 days a week running, tennis, personal trainer and more. Maybe my chances are better because I am not overweight and have always taken care of myself. Time will tell. I am a firm believer in the alternative route. I have seen first hand cancer patients far out live their expected time because of this approach. It works for some, not for others. I think you have to try it for an "EXTENDED" period of time. Not just a few days, few weeks but for months before you can say it doesnt work. You have to believe, you have to have hope but most importantly you have to go to an alternative medical doctor for the facts and the direction. Not to friends and family, and most definitely not to the GNC store. Drugs are NOT THE ANSWER!
What happens is that your body produces free raticals. What causes a free ratical is things like additives and preservatives in food, colors in food, pesticide, car exhaust, pesticide etc.
Free raticals are what causes the result of RA, the more we have, the more inflammation we have.
Antioxidants eliminate free raticals, the more you have the more you can fight the inflammation.
I haven't read that strengthening your immune system will help, but know that antioxidants do.
There are things like microhydrine plus that work great and contain the most antioxidants anywhere.
Trooper...sorry luv...but I have to disagree with you on the drugs are not the answer thingie. I was in excellent shape when I developed RA. I had a physically demanding career that kept me on the go 24/7/365. I was paramedic in the part of a large city that was known for gangs, domestic violence, prostitution, and high drug use. I took care of myself...ate properly..and certainly had to stay in shape for my career. Back long ago when I was diagnosed there were not the drugs out there that there are now to treat RA. So nsaids and taking care of myself was the only way to go.
Now I have progressed to the point where I need those meds or be in a wheelchair. Proper nutrition, exercise, and taking excellent care of yourself is all part of the RA routine for many of us. Even those of us on the meds. Natural supplements and alternative medicine are definitely ways to go with treatment if that is something that works for YOU. Or maybe used in combination with traditional medicine. There are people here that do it that way too. Please do not say that drugs are not the way to go. That made me feel very bad about myself because I have NO other alternative at this point in my life. I can not afford both the traditional and alternative therapies at the same time. The statement that you made had me doubting myself if I am doing everything I possibly can not only for me...but for my family. I just had a particularly intensely horrible flare I had to be hospitalized for and I am still trying to work that out in my brain. Maybe rewording the statement that drugs are not the way to go to something like drugs are not the way to go for ME. I know others here may feel the way I felt about that. Suggesting other forms of treatment and therapies is highly useful. Something may work for someone!!! And wouldn't that just be awesome!!! There is a lovely lady here (you know who you are
Trooper...this is not meant to start any trouble with you or anyone else here. Peeps know me better than that. I just kind of wanted to give you a heads up that people may doubt themselves, feel guilty or bad that they have to do the drugs, or question a treatment that is working for them and slowing or stopping the disease progress. I'm sure you don't want to make anyone feel that way. None of us purposely do (I would hope lol).
I think we always have to remember that every illness is different for every BODY. What I do may not work for you and vice versa. I believe in alternative practices but will never count out Western medicine. While I think we can agree that none of us want to be on prednisone or the various chemo drugs...they are poison. I think the biologics are very hopeful..if you have insurance and can afford them. I think I would be in a wheelchair today if I hadn't started Enbril. I am in good shape..eat all organic and mostly local produce when possible. I meditate, exercise, own a business, have 2 teenage sons and am othherwise very healthy with the exception of this ridonkulous chronic illness.
I have always been given to understand (by my medical people) that boosting the immune system by taking supplements and system boosters (including some vitamins) is NOT the way to go when your immune system in under fire from itself. My understanding from that is that if my body's immune system is attacking me, then why give it more fire power!! Surely that is why we are prescribed immunosuppressants.
Kiwi -
Those of us on AP (antibiotic therapy) do so with the intention of boosting our immune systems so, in theory, eventually it can take over and do the job it was intended for. Meaning, it will get better and better and be able boot the rest of the infection out of our bodies.
The traditional rheumy's believe that the immune system is attacking itself. AP rheumies (for the most part) believe that the Minocin is attacking an infection in our white blood cells - getting healthy, eating healthy, anti-inflammatory diets, all work to rid the body of that infection.
Pip
I wish it were all so simple. I haven't always been overweight, fatigued, not motivated, and ill. Prior to RA I was trim, energetic, lived a healthy lifestyle and was vice president of a health insurance company. I was hit with a severe onset of RA and it rocked my world.
I wish that I could have had used complimentary treatments as part of my treatment plan but due to the severe nature of the onset they weren't an option. Later on in the disease process I integrated complimentary medicines along with my alopathic medicines. I achieved what my physicans called "remission" for 5 years. I don't feel that I achieved what I call "pseudo remission" due to the complimentary medicine or the alopathic meds. I feel that it just happened. I wasn't really in remission.
I had no pain but bone damage was continuing. That's the dangerous game that we play with this disease. Once we feel better and think we're in remission we forget that we have the disease. We don't realize that our bones are still erroding. Prednisone, pain pills, and anti-inflammatories give us a false sense of well beiing. We can function once again.
I am using a complimentary treatment plan prescribed by the Center for Integrative Medicine along with the dmards and biologics but only to alleviate some of the side effects.
Unfortunately, the only drugs that have helped me are the most toxic. I use complimentary medicine to cleanse, boost my energy, and hopefully to help with the complications that can arise from the use of biologics and dmards. I don't use complimentary medicine to cure me. In fact I don't use biologics or dmards to cure me, only to help me live a more active life.
I'm tired of listening to the litany of advice from the fringe about how they cured their arthritis with: A vibrating foot massager, bone meal that you can only purchase from Canada, a Mexican herb that has to be harvested only in the first 2 weeks of September, a mushroom concoction that is pureed and drank, assorted creams, lotions and oils, and best of all vinegar. I will listen when someone tells me that along with taking their biologics they take a complimentary medicine to help with the nausea or fatigue. Remember to integrate the complimentary medicines with your alopathic meds and treatment plan. Only do this with the advice of your internist and rheumatologist.
It isn't as simple as a few vitamins, some herbs, and a foot massager. It's a complex disease and maybe the cure will be as simple as a herb but it's not been found. I kill myself to live by taking Remicade and Mxt.
Arthritis is chronic be it autoimmune, metabolic disorder or other causes and bombard with drugs like immunosuppressants, painkillers, MTX a cancer drug etc. in conventional treatments as deemed as sensible choice will lead to more complications. This is my conclusion as a sufferer of arthritis who has overcome the disease.
The disease is complex and needs to gradually reverse to no threat and cure. It requires appropriate herbs to stop pain during flare. The herbs also have effectiveness to coax, melt and dispose the toxic wastes in each attack. The severity is gradually reduced with no side effects. Then it is positive result.
Also correct natural foods help to improve the healthy level and adjust autoimmune/metabolic disorder.
If you cannot find a solution every method is not workable. The result is the proof.
LinB, it is a natural tendency for many sufferers (including myself in the past 20 years) to try and find solution to ease pain and cure the disease.
Besides conventional drugs in the past, I had tried external methods like accupunture, heat and stimilating treatments, herbal wash and massage, slept on megnatic field pillow and mattress etc.. Internal methods I had taken traditional herbs from Chinese physicians and tribal herbalists, poisonous snake capsules, drinking poisonous snake's bladder and blood mixed with honey and alcohol, vitamins and supplements. Some methods would provide relief temporary like drugs. A sufferer is a victim and is subjected to manupulation by circumstances like recommendations, commercials etc and the mindset that directs.
Despite all the setbacks, I was determined to find a solution and went to libraries to explore, search and read books concerning traditional Chinese herbs, arthritis, scientific studies on plants, natural foods etc. because I had the inclination and belief that herbs and natural foods could work.
In my search for a cure, I started to drink tea and cultivated lingzhi tea and learn to eat correct natural foods abstaining from canned foods, chemicals and 'bad' foods. The lifestyle change did help but not a solution.
I explored and found wild lingzhi to be effective and from there on my main ingredient of treatment and also part of my family health treasure of supplement.
To deal with the disease, I formulated wild lingzhi with other herbs that could quickly stop pain during flare. The herbal formula could also 'coax', 'neutralize', 'dissolve' toxic into wastes and 'dispose' it naturally as stools, urines and farts that I termed as cleansing process in the body until swells subsided. I was thrilled when action of herbs caused the blood in the vein to move vigorously that triggered continuous twitching of affected joints. The sensation and comfort I enjoyed most because joints were swollen and stiff during flare.
In the past, I used to have other problems like bleeding gums, sore throat with yellowish/dark red phlegm, common cold, mouth/tongue ulcer, respiratory infections, fatigue, headache, stomache and belch often etc.. Those problems disappeared once herbs and correct natural foods effectively rejuvenate the level of health.
Each battling episode ended wtih the disease being weaken and dwindle its power of causing pain and damage. In my case, it was a long term treatment as I was a bedridden for months as sufferer. The reversal of severity was gradual and the result visible was nodes shrunk to normal sizes except deformation. Joints could move without any hiss. No more threat for many years that I termed as cure.
Once I overcome the disease I can visualize and understand more about this dreadful chronic disease. The disease, I believe can interfere/affect other parts in your body like respiratory, digestive, urinary, nervous and blood circulating systems.
That's pretty amazing , except for the fact that I've used MTX for 12 years and have had no problems. I am, according to all the tests very healthy. I guess I must be an anomaly. Which might be the case, if I didn't know other people who have had the same results I have had. I am more than satisfied with my course of treatment. As I said in another thread, Enbrel and MTX in combination , have given my life back.Sarah, I agree with you. Dmards and biologics gave me my life back. I have some reactions to MXT and it's probably due to my age. I'm older than most people who post on this forum. I have an "old liver" but a young mind.
AlleyCat, I was curious about Trooper's statement about it being too early to treat his RA. I was under the impression that early intervention meant less damage in the future. I guess my Stanford, UofC, and Scripps trained rheumatologist must be mistaken. It doesn't make any difference to me since I'm 62 years old and have had RA for the last 10 years. But I would like for Trooper to clarify his statement and present the facts so that the younger, newly diagnosed on the forum understand his doctor's theory.
I would like clarification on that also since it is never too early to treat ANY disease or illness. My rd is not only an md, but he also holds a Phd in the immunology/rheumatology field. He has also done research and studied in Sweden for 2 years. One of the research capitols of the world. He also holds 2 professorships. I can't imagine he would say it is too early to treat my daughters onset of jra that we caught pretty quickly. My family doc also said treat immediately. He is also going to treat her pretty aggressively since it tends to throw kids her age into remission and a long lasting one at that. At least that is our hope but we all know what a fickle (censored) ra can be. Even way back when I was diagnosed I was treated immediately. Not much to do back then but nsaids and pred. But at least I was treated right off the bat.
Sometimes I wonder how some of these docs made it out of medical school and the extra residency for rheumatology/immunology. LinB...sounds like you have an excellent doc!! That is awesome. I love seeing that.
As I said in my previous post...without my meds....I would be in a wheelchair. I'm entirely too young for that. My humira and mtx combo allow me to lead a great life. Quality of life is an individual thing. For me...mine is great right now even tho I am going thru a difficult period. But this too shall pass. With my meds as my treatment.
Wow!! I think I have moved out of denial and anger finally!! WOOHOOOO!!! I'm gonna get hubby to pat me on the back for this one lol. I can't pat my own back yet lol.
Trooper -
I'd like you to explain more about the 'too early to treat' too. Maybe his doc is 'old school'.
LinB -
Personally, I hope there's a ring in hell for people that take advantage of the chronically ill. On the other hand - there is way too much ancedotal evidence linking vitamins and herbs to influncing our disease and it's eventually outcome. Please understand - until I became ill I used to watch my mother buy vitamin after vitamin and experiment on her osteo arthritis and never saw it do any real good. But when she had her heart bypass, the doc told her we'd never know how bad it would have been if she had NOT been on the vitamins. There is research out there showing these can help people. The problem is most people do not take the time and experiment on what is working and what is NOT working. One jar of X for a month will not tell a person much. American's want instant gratification - most are not interested in a slow, methodical plan to figure out what they need to get well.
What interested me the most in some of these herbs and vitamins is that their active ingredient seems to be some sort of natural antibiotic or antiviral of some kind. For example - capsaisin in hot peppers. Is it enough to beat the disease on its own - for some people yes, but for most, no. Again - I think it's a multifaceted approach that will work. ABX, diet, healing the gut, cleanses. And again, it's a lot of work that most people do not want to undertake. Especially when most rheumies pooh-pooh the idea and then say 'here, take this (insert drug of choice) and all your pain will go away'.
KoKo -
Your use of lingzhi caused your RA to reverse? That's what's happening with my PRA. If you have any info (I prefer studies :-) on this can you send me the info via private messanger. I'd love to know more about it's 'active ingredient'.
Pip
P.S. Today as I was waiting for the laundry to dry at the laundromat I went to the video store next door to kill some time. There were these really cool lamps that looked like huge crystals that would glow a soft orange glow. Really cool. Really expensive. Sigh. I started asking questions because I had not ever seen anything like that before and the kid behind the counter was embarrassed and struggling with the language (he was Korean) and he said the lamps purify the air and clean out impurities and promote health. Of course, my ears pricked up and I'm trying to get more info but the kid doesn't know much else and tells me to come back in the morning and talk to his parents. He did say something interesting tho - those lamps are made out of giant salt crystals - and come in a 'natural' form on a base, or some are carved with a cross, or a fish (didn't like these as much). And all I can think of is how many people report that epsom salts can help a person manage a herx and others say taking a bath in it helps and others mentioned that they 'herxed' on it until they detoxed a bit. So - common salt - things we have around all the time - can be something that can help us (assuming we don't have high blood pressure etc.). My point - if somebody sold this on the internet as a 'cure your RA today' thing we'd be furious. But - if they sold it as a thing of beauty - and it was another little 'arrow' in our arsenal - I think that's really cool. Does that make sense? It's not that it can't help us - it very well may not - but at least it had another use as something beautiful.
I love the giant salt crystal lamps and bought a couple when we lived in AZ because they are supposed to purify the air. Living in the desert is really really dusty lol.
I feel we might be furious if they were marketed as a cure your RA today thing because nothing at this point cures RA. If they were marketed as air purifying then THAT would be a different story. I guess for me it is a truth in advertising thing lol.
The salt crystal lamps are pretty too. But as far as I know they do serve more of a purpose than pretty lol.
Pip, I was at a fleamarket recently and a salesperson asked me to sit down and use the foot massager. Since my feet were achy I thought why not? The massage was nice but the sermon about it curing RA was too much. The salesperson claimed that she had RA until she purchased the massage unit and started to use it. She was then cured....whoa! got my attention but not in the way they hoped. I was furious and told them they were being dishonost, etc. etc. and I walked away. I'm finished with people who announce their cures by everything from massage, holding a crystal in the full moon, to drinking a wild herb. I decided at that moment that each time someone told be they had cured themselves that I would confront them and not just politely smile and nod. I can't just ignore these people any longer. It's much better for my stress level and mental health to confront them. The posters on the forum I ignore but not when it's in my face. I'm 62 years old with more testosterone in my body than estrogen. Bring them on! Oh, by the way, the foot massager cost was 0.00 but if I bought it at the flea market it would only cost me 9.00. Such a small investment to cure RA. Blah! I believe that doctors do not know every thing about this disease, well, that's obvious because if they did there would be a cure for it!!LinB -
Ring in hell - we can only hope!
Micheleb -
We are soooo on the same page. When I first found the RB and saw some of those posts about massage, epsom salts baths, etc. I really just assumed they were some sort of fringe group. I was skeptical at best.
But over time I incorporated some of the suggestions. One example that comes to mind is Bonny suggested milk thistle to help an overtaxed liver (I had 3 tests in a row with elevated enzymes) and I was terrified my doc would take me off the Mino before it could do it's thing. Due to a screw up at the lab I had to have another lab test drawn only 2 1/2 weeks after starting Mino and not only were the enzymes down, I also was able to 'manage the herx' better. Could it have been something else. Yeah, sure. But I don't believe it. Whatever is in milk thistle has proven to me it works in my body.
Combining traditional and alternative therapies is usually called 'integrative medicine' and these guys are so popular that it takes up to six months to get in and see them.
Pip
Pip, your mother has the mindset and trust of vitamins, probably the commercials, multi-level marketing, medical providers have sold the idea.
LinB, it is a natural tendency for many sufferers (including myself in the past 20 years) to try and find solution to ease pain and cure the disease.
It is the tendency for most sufferers in search of a cure to look at alternatives.
As I posted - "Besides conventional drugs in the past, I had tried external methods like accupunture, heat and stimilating treatments, herbal wash and massage, slept on megnatic field pillow and mattress etc.. Internal methods I had taken traditional herbs from Chinese physicians and tribal herbalists, poisonous snake capsules, drinking poisonous snake's bladder and blood mixed with honey and alcohol, vitamins and supplements. Some methods would provide relief temporary like drugs. A sufferer is a victim and is subjected to manupulation by circumstances like recommendations, commercials etc and the mindset that directs."
Pip, it is more convincing to go into 'lingzhi'/'ganoderma lucidum' websites or look for books in library yourself for lingzhi information.
Learn and use it yourself to know the result. As you have posted - "The problem is most people do not take the time and experiment on what is working and what is NOT working."
Don't accept what I posted learn and experience yourself if you are interested.
[QUOTE=grammaskittles]
<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=3>I would like
clarification on that also since it is never too early to treat ANY disease or
illness. My rd is not only an md, but he also holds a Phd in the
immunology/rheumatology field. He has also done research and studied
in Sweden for 2 years. One of the research capitols of the world. He also
holds 2 professorships. I can't imagine he would say it is too early to
treat my daughters onset of jra that we caught pretty quickly. My family
doc also said treat immediately. He is also going to treat her pretty
aggressively since it tends to throw kids her age into remission and a
long lasting one at that. At least that is our hope but we all know what a
fickle (censored) ra can be. Even way back when I was diagnosed I was
treated immediately. Not much to do back then but nsaids and pred. But
at least I was treated right off the bat.
<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=3>Sometimes I
wonder how some of these docs made it out of medical school and the
extra residency for rheumatology/immunology. LinB...sounds like you
have an excellent doc!! That is awesome. I love seeing that.
<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>As I said in my previous
post...without my meds....I would be in a wheelchair. I'm entirely too
young for that. My humira and mtx combo allow me to lead a great life.
Quality of life is an individual thing. For me...mine is great right now
even tho I am going thru a difficult period. But this too shall pass. With
my meds as my treatment.
<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Wow!! I think I have moved
out of denial and anger finally!! WOOHOOOO!!! I'm gonna get hubby to
pat me on the back for this one lol. I can't pat my own back yet lol. [/
FONT]
lorster, alternative medical doctors should be
covered by your insurance, mine is. he is an MD who practices both
alternative and regular medicine, therefore he is covered. I dont know
what type of insurance you have but you should try to find a doctor that
takes your insurance even if its out of network and you have those
benefits. Also insurance companies now offer a rider for alternative care.
It maybe a higher premium but at least you would be covered for
acupuncture and chiropractors. The 3 Rheumotologists I saw gave me
absolutely nothing. They said my RA was the beginning stages and that
drugs were not an option at this point. I would opt not to take the drugs
even if they would help because they dont necessarily work and have so
many side effects. For my alternative will be my choice until if and when
the disease gets worse and I do not have an option. Organic diets,
holistic remedies etc. do not necessarily get rid of the pain, but they help
to build your immune system which is key to this disease.
Shame on those children for taking those grandbabies away from you!! Shame shame!!! LOL!!!
Anytime you want to come visit me lemme know!! I'm more than happy to hook a peep up with my rd.
To answer a few questions asked of me. My current doctor is a MD who practices both alternative and regular medicene. He is one of the most respected in this field in New York City and practies at Beth Israel Hospital. I did not have to wait that long to see him but he is very expensive. Although I am covered by insurance, I have to pay him upfront and the insurance company then reinmburses me. He is not a Rhemy. Based on my blood work performed by him as well as three other doctors I saw (two of which were Rhemys) they diagnosed me with RA and Lupus. The Rhemys were no help at all. They told me they would not prescribe any drugs for me because it was too early. My symptons are very minor. Just some tingling in my hands and feet, a little stiff but thats it. They felt to put me on Meds this early for symptons so minor wouldn't be beneficial. Both Rhemy's are middle age, not too young, not too old. I wasn't happy with their suggestions and thats why I went to the alternative doctor. He put me on the regimen of acunpcture, organic diet, supplements and cleansing drinks. I also do yoga and meditate. He didnt say I wouldnt ever have to go to a Rheumy. He felt at this point, he wanted to reduce the inflammation and get my body as healthy as possible. If the time comes, and I'm assuming it will based on everything I've read in these forums, I will go that route. For now, for as long as I can, I'm choosing alternative. He's hoping that this will reduce the inflammation, we all know it won't cure it.The AP Dr is Ida Grove is Dr S, who's a regular doctor but he learned AP from it's pioneer, Dr Brown. The story is Dr Brown went through Ida Grove and helped a young man with severe RA, so people kept asking Dr S to send them to Dr Brown, which he did. Finally, it was so many people helped by and asking to see Dr Brown that he went himself and Dr Brown taught him all about AP. (It's not a complicated treatment so any Dr should be able to do it if they take the time to read up on it). I know this story because it's told in first person detail in "The New Arthritis Breakthrough" by Henry Scammell.