OT Failure to Thrive | Arthritis Information

Our new mom spent the weekend with us again and I want to pull my hair
out with her. Again, spent the whole weekend on the couch, we waited
on her. The baby still has not had a bath. She wipes her down with those
diaper wipes. She has not gained anymore weight, she is skinny, cries all
the time. She has not had her weighed because "she didn't have time"
Candice is eating one meal a day. I got into a fight with my husband
about it. I told him that that is what moms are there for, to teach their
daughters how to be moms. I thought that had been going on for
centuries. Candice won't listen to anything we suggest. The other two
daughters even gave her suggestions and she just went back to th same
old habits. The baby has a onesy on, never wrapped tight. She went back
this morning. I'm worried. This baby is 6 weeks old and has maybe put
on a few ounces. Do I turn her into the department of family services?
I'm just so lost here. I know this is not about arthritis but I don't know
what to do. This is starting to affect my health, I'm so worried.

I would certainly be worried too. My daughter was like that with her first becuse she was a nurse and "knew it all". Finally they went to the doctor and the dx in the hospital was "failure to thrive". Those word knocked some sense into her and she had to admit she needed help. Breastfeeding wasn't working yet for her. the baby's mouth was too smll to latch on correctly which is what I had been telling her. They were able to turn it around while baby was hospitalized. BTW, the baby is 13 now and my daughter is a lactation counselor.

But it sure was hard to wait that out until she got in to the doctor! I would keep pushing her to get the baby weighed. I'll be thinking about you!

Kathy

Oh my, how funny. The next appt is the 23rd and I'm sure she will hear
about it. I don't think she is going to really hear it until the doctor says it.
My hands are tied with this situation. I'm more mad than anything right now
because she just will not listen to anyone. Oh Lorster (((hugs))) for you and your family. It may take hearing it from her doc about the baby. Is there a history of post partum depression in your family at all? Or your husbands family?? Do you live close enough to go over to her house and check on her? Or maybe to get a couple of those playtex nurser bottles and some formula? Is it possible for you to offer to take the baby for a couple of days (I know that is sooo hard with ra) and see if you can get the baby to take a bottle? Can you go to the doc appt. with your daughter and voice your concerns to the doc yourself? I'm not sure if the HIPPA laws allow this, but can you call your daughters pediatrician and advise him/her of the situation? If the doc thinks it is reportable the doc has to do it by law then it takes the blame so to speak off of your hands. That's a hard situation. I'm sorry I don't have any useful advice. It does sound like your daughter may have postpartum depression. I hope this gets resolved soon.

I'll take the baby if she doesn't want it! I feel so sorry for that baby. I'm worried it's hungry! Your daughter needs a good slap upside the head or a good Dr. sounds like post partum depression to me. You must do something!

Can you just call her OB and let him/her know what's going on? Tell the Dr. that you know he can't discuss her situation because of the HIPPA laws, but that your VERY concerned for the well being of the baby. He'll be worried about covering his ass (I'm a nurse too) so maybe he'll give her a call. 25mg of zoloft does not seem like enough to me at all.Maybe you can call the ob and get him/her to set up some kind of visiting nurse. I may have missed something but is the babies father in the picture? His mom/family? Someone has to get through to her.Post partum depression sounds like it may be raising it's ugly head. Any way you can go to the pediatrician appt. with her. Offer to go along and drive and to help her. Do you know her pediatrician? Might be able to talk to him. He can't really respond because of the new laws but he can listen. I'd have a hard time watching this happen. I know what you're going through but you may just have to confront the situation head on. It's still 9 days till the appt.

Your responsibility is to get that baby taken care of. Call her doctor, call the baby's pediatrician, call the city's social services dept whatever it takes to get that baby what she needs and your daughter. Is the baby's father involved?

You know you have a legitimate reason to be concerned for both of them. Based on what you are saying the odds of Candice taking the baby to her well baby check is pretty small. Do you take that risk with the life of a helpless 6 weeks old baby.

Can you go just be foreceful and go move in with her or just go in and take the baby to a doctor

I know it may be a huge undertaking but what if you suggest to her that you take the baby to give her a break for a few days. Maybe she can clear her head for two or three days and you get your hands on that baby! Just a thought.

I'd hold off on the call to social services. It might be what the ladies are describing above; and it might end up just causing a horrible rift between the two of you. You won't be able to be of much help to her if she won't ever come around or let you get the baby some.

Does she live out of town? Is that why she was at your house?

I was a teenage Mother myself and I knew many others. Often it makes some grow up real fast......and other's don't quite ever get it. Lukcy for me I grew up fast. Don't know that your daughters a teenager; but if it's not depression I'd say she's probable just really inmature.

Hi,

I was a case manager for parenting teens and also a foster mother for them. I do think they tend to listen to authorities more than their own family. There are no laws per HIPAA that will be violated (I actually teach HIPAA as part of classes in a college) if a concerned family member contacts the physician.

Ask that your concerns be documented and brought to the attention of the physician. Once it is documented it will become part of the history of the patient (your grandbaby). By Federal law the physician then must do some sort of investigation and only needs to report it if it is actual neglect or abuse.

It will then be up to the physician to ask for more treatments, order tests or more follow-up. The physician may not discuss the baby's diagnosis or treatment with you without the parents permission, but I would ask the parents to give permission, who knows they just might.

Many grandparents and caregiver seek medical treatment for children. If it is an emergency situation, they don't need the parents permission to treat the child. If you daughter does have some type of depression she may be willing to give you authorization to seek treatment for the baby.

There is a diagnosis of "failure to thrive" that is given to infants. Many times the parent does nothing wrong, but the physician cannot find a physical reason for the lack of growth. Trust me a physician will watch that baby more carefully if he suspects any type of neglect as he can be held legally responsible for reporting.

You can also contact your daughters physician and do the same.

Hope all goes well,

Mary B.
Hi Lorster, I am so sorry for your family going through this, obviously without much support from those people who are this baby's only advocates. Looks like you are going to have to step up and take some kind of action and let the chips fall where they may. I agree that you can't wait until the 23rd to do something. The baby could be dehydrating or have a serious medical problem. You have had some good ideas sent to you here but I really don't think "slapping" her is going to accomplish any good. She needs help and I think in the long run she will thank you for caring so much.If anyone is telling you to stay out of it please don't listen to them...... GenesisCandice is 25 years old and a very smart woman. The decisions she is
making right now are very unusual and out of line for her. She has so
much common sense. We are all just shocked that she is behaving this
way. It will cause a huge rift if I call the doctor. She is 140 miles away
from us but not so far that we cannot get their quick. This has to be post
partum depression. She told me that the baby has not been to the doctor
since she was a week old. She is almost 6 weeks now. Is this normal?
How can a doctor monitor a baby. Candice says they didn't want to see
the baby until 6 weeks. My other daughters told me that does not sound
right to them. They are also concerned about bonding issues with the
baby. We are going down there this weekend without notice, just show
up. Her husband is in the picture. He is a police officer but they are
having serious marital problems. I feel sorry for this baby. I offered to
take the baby over to the hospital here and weigh her on our baby scale
and Candice refused to let me which I thought was strange. My other two
daughters feel that they are fighting alot and the baby is stressed.
Anyway, we are putting our foot down and we will take the baby if we do
not feel the situation is goig to improve. Thanks for letting me vent...it
makes me feel better about this situation.

Lorster- You need to contact someone to help your daughter, PPD gets worse without help.

I was appalled that Emma as a nurse suggested a slap on the head, your daughter cant help how shes feeling and she doesnt see the damage to the baby as the depression makes you feel as if you are in a very dark place.Your daughter really needs help as does the baby.

Lorster, my heart goes out to you as well. I had a problem with my own daughter as a teenager, a single Mum, but with very crazy dominating friends, who didn't want her to have anything to do with us (her family) when she had a dear little baby girl. The baby wasn't sleeping or feeding well, my daughter wasn't sleeping or eating, and she was very very stroppy!! Baby had been 6 weeks prem as well, so was still only tiny. I was soo worried about them, I talked to my own Dr. - who said - try and get her home with the baby for a couple of weeks, and just mother them both, then bring her and the babe in to see me when you think she's ready.

She wasn't too keen at all but I finally actually persuaded her to come back home and stay with me for a fortnight, I fed her up, gave her my bedroom, and the baby and I slept in the spare room, and I just clicked totally back into mother mode, with both my daughter and my grandaughter.

We put the baby onto a formula, because my daughter had very little milk,her nipples were cracked and bleeding, and she was in agony about that too. She so wanted to breastfeed & thought that she couldn't be a good mother if that wasn't happening.

I was so pleased that she agreed to come, I did everything for the first 3-4 days, and my daughter only ate & slept and gave the bub cuddles.. On the 5th Day, she was perking up, and began to want to take back over again, began to ask lots of questions about routines etc . It actually turned out to be a very positive time for us both - eventually!

I don't think that she thought that she was depressed, she said later the next week, when she agreed to see our own family Dr that she felt that everything was getting out of her control and that she was failing. We managed to get through it, I think because we caught it early, she wasn't medicated, but actually by the time we got to the Doc she was on the way back up again, and he thought she was going to be OK - and she was. Once we got her rested, and her confidence in herself restored, they were fine.

Lorster I'm sure that with you for a Mum, and supporting her in whichever way you think will be best, that things will come right soon.
Go with your instincts - get the help you need - you know your daughter best - she will thank you eventually!!

From your description especially with the relationship problems it's no doubt PPD.

If the baby went back to the doctor at one week I don't think it's odd that he wouldn't want to see her again until 6 weeks. It's been a LONG time since my kids were infants; but that doesn't really seem strange to me unless there were problems whent he baby was released from the hospital.

Is this the daughter that just graduated?

lorster, as a nurse, arren't you a mandated reporter?

I am a mandated reporter as a teacher. When my son and DIL were neglecting the baby I took them aside and told them they had 3 days to clean up their act, get the baby to the dr , clean their apartment and start acting like parents or I was going to turn them over to CPS.

I made sure they understood I was legally REQUIRED to do this if I wanted to keep my teaching certificate.

It did help, briefly, but it put the kids on notice that I was not going to let my grandbaby be in danger.

You MUST report this. You must get your daughter some help before it is too late.

Your daughter needs help. I have relatives who had to be hospitalized for post partum psychosis/depression... its not a crime or anything to be ashamed of..her hormones ARE causing her this problem and because of it her baby is in danger.

Is this how you ended up raising your grandchildren Kathy?It is just very weird. She is feeding the baby, changing the baby, however
I'm not sure of her breast milk quality and we encouraged her to feed the
baby some formula which she did and the baby slept for five hours after
the one bottle was given. But, there is this underlying feeling that she
has not bonded with her. It is the way she holds her, carries her. Idon't
know. It is mostly a feeling that we all get. She sits on the couch the
whole time she is here, does not move, asks everyone to get this and get
that for her. Just not getting into mommy mode. I am hoping the zoloft
kicks in and the doc did increase her to 50 mg. Candice just has so many
unresolved issues on so many different levels. I was going to call her bio
mom but the bio moms husband just left for Iraq last week and she is a
wreck. I'm not sure how much support her bio mom can be to her. We
will see her this weekend and reasess her. I may buy her a scale for the
baby so she can keep an eye on the weight. One other thing. This baby
aspirated muconium and was born with a collapsed lung and was in the
NICU for the first couple of days. That is why I feel more frequent follow
ups should have been done. This is not the daughter that graduated, this
is my husbands daughter, my step daughter. wow im surprised they didnt want to see her more frequently since she was in NICU. My neice was a month early, weighed 5lbs 3 oz when they left the hospital, and was never in NICU or anything and they had her come in weekly to make sure she was gaining weight. She is 5 months old and just got to the 12 pound mark.

That was the reason for my question regarding her health at the time of release. It does seem strange that they wouldn't want to see her again sooner.

Since she's on zoloft I guess that means she's been dx'ed with depression? How long has she been on it? Was it an unwanted pregnacy?

I feel for you Lorster. I can only imagine the stress this worry is causing you and your husband. I know you both have to feel so helpless being so far away. I hope that things will soon improve for your daughter and the baby.

I have known a couple of women that had PPD and they were both on Prozac for it and not Zoloft. Could the anti depressant that she is on be making a difference? As in it really isn't working and needs to be changed?

I feel your pain and frustration with all of this. And mary...thanks for the info concerning the hippa/privacy practice laws. Much appreciated.

I wonder what your daughters reaction would be if you told she either does something about this herself or you will report her. Sometimes that can be kind of jarring to a parent.

I would try and get the number for the babys doc and talk with them and let them know what is going on.

She has been on Zoloft for a little more than a week. Her and her husband
need serious marriage counceling. This baby was the result of a huge fight,
she left, went to Cheyenne where her mom lives and he drove down there
and the baby was conceived. There has been no physical relationship since
the conception according to Candice. Her husband won't have anything to
do with her physically. Such a sad mess. I'm hearing all this from the bio
mom. Candice has not shared this with us. I'm going to insist that she get
the baby weighed this weekend. I'm buying a scale. This is her first baby so
she has no idea what to expect so I guess we need to guide her a bit. I think the best thing was to show up unplanned like you said and maybe stay the weekend and pamper mom and baby. Talk to her. See what's going on. Maybe it is ppd along with problems with the hubby. She is probably overwhelmed with everything. She's not eating or sleeping right so maybe if she gets a break she will feel better. I know babies are a lot of work and stress.

"a slap upside the head" is more of a figure of speech. I really didn't mean lorster should go physically assault this 25 year old woman. I meant that something needs to happen with this situation NOW. The baby could have pneumona or something (Especially with her history of meconium aspiration). Sorry to thrwart pincushions attempt once more to go for my jugular. Please Lorster, keep us updated!

when you keep saying Bio-Mom do you mean that she was adopted? Or do you just mean your husbands first wife and her real mom?

I know you said you didn't want to call her because she had other worries on her mind....but if she is the one that Candice confides in then I think this is the way to go. She will obviously have more influence with her and Candice is likely to listen to her and maybe follow her advice. I think her Mother would want to know of your concerns. If she does have other worries on her mind she might not have noticed what you have noticed and may appreciate you bringing these issues to light.

I highly discourage anything that resembles an ambush because this will only cause conflict in your family moving forward. I know you are concerned about the baby....and you obviously have good reason; but she's a grown woman and you may want to be careful about the way you handle things.

Lorster, I'm totally having a "brain-fog" here, but do you remember what the babies' immunization schedule is? I mean, I sort of remember my kids getting some kind of shots pretty early on. Are you sure it's not jus your daughter blowing off any pediatrician's appointments?I think the first shots are given at 8 weeks. She has an appt on the 23rd so
we will see. the first shot besides at birth are between 4-6 weeks BUT i belive that they also have to be at a certain weight in order to get the shotsWell, if it is given at 4 weeks, she has totally missed the boat. she assures
me that the next appt is at 6 weeks. I will see the baby in 2 days and then
I'm going to form a plan of action.how much does the baby weigh? The health dept wouldnt let my sister get my neices shots besides the one at birth and the 2nd round of shots till after she was more then 10 pounds and she just hit that a a few weeks agoThis baby does not weigh more than about 7.5 lbs, if that. I will be
surprised if it is any more. she was 7.0 at birth. She will be six weeks in a
few days. Leleche.org says they are to gain 2 lbs in the first month.Has anyone spoken with her husband about things? Sounds like he is a central figure in this and needs to be getting involved, even if it takes some pushing to get him there. This sounds like a family in crisis and something needs to be done immediately or there could be a tragedy. This is no one's fault and shouldn't be approached with blame or accusations, but this is very simply a matter of life or death for that baby. Babies do not have the strength or reserves to survive for long without proper nourishment, hydration and care. Please approach this as a crisis, Lorster, this scares the hell out of me! Hillhoney39219.536724537

When my now 6 yr old was born, he weighed 8 pounds 13 1/2oz...big boy. I was asked at the hospital if I wanted a home visit from a nurse after I went home. I said sure---even though I had never had one with my other 2 kids. Thank God I did....she came when he was about 4 or 5 days old I believe. She weighed him and he weighed 6 pounds!! I was nursing all of the time....suffering from PPD ( but I didn't tell anyone...I was ashamed and not well educated about it) Turns out what was happening was when I'd nurse...he'd quit nursing when my milk let down because the "fast flow" would choke him. So what he was doing was getting the "skim" part of the milk....then when I'd let down and the "whole milk" came down- he'd quit drinking. We ended up having to supplement with formula by attatching a tube to my breast that held formula. While he nursed, he also got the formula. We had to go for daily weight checks to the hospital which was 45 mins. away. It was a huge inconvienence and feedings ended up taking at least an hour using that supplemental system, but when they said if he didn't gain so many oz's a day, they'd put him in the hospital--it didn't seem so bad.

I pray that when she takes the baby to the Dr it'll be a huge wake up call. I have to go back and read when she goes again...Oh, actually I think you said you're going for a surprise visit this weekend. I can't wait to see what happens....take control if need be. That little baby needs help. I'll say a prayer for your family too. Yea this scares me too Lorster....Something needs to be done and hopefully she will see it as you are trying to help. But the first priorty is to make sure this little baby is safe and healthy. Lorster, has the baby been seen by the dr at all since she's been home from the hospital?Well, Candice went to her own OBGYN appt today and the doctor took one
look at the baby and weighed her and told Candice she needed to put the
baby on formula. The doctor also mada an appt for candice with the
pediatrition tomorrow. So, I'm so glad and relieved. The baby is now on the
bottle, I think this breast feeding non sense with nipple shields is over.
Hopefully she will have a happier baby and will get some much needed rest.
The baby weighed 8 lbs. Dr said, not nearly enough. The other issues, well,
we will see how it is going when we get down there.YAY im glad the OB/GYN put her foot down. Now she will be able to get the nutrition that she needs. How are the antidepressants helping her? Are you able to breastfeed on those anyhow? Thanks for keeping us updated[QUOTE=emmasa01]

[/QUOTE] Sorry Emma I wasnt trying to go for anyones juggular its just that we have to very careful when dealing with PPD and our actions could have an effect on Lorsters daughter. I guess i need a translator for the figure of speeches from other countries

Yep, you can be on antidepressants while nursing. My OB actually started me on them while I was pregnant since it takes a while to get in your system. ( This was with my 4th baby)

Great to see that things are improving for bubs - today's formulae for babies are pretty amazing. I will never forget watching my daughter sitting on the floor trying to express with a breast pump. Tears were rolling down her cheeks and the little trickle of milk that was coming was pink with blood. Nearly broke my heart! I told her "That's it - she's going onto full formula, and you are going to be able to enjoy your baby". or something like that anyway. She said she had thought that I wouldn't like it if baby went on to formula, and had been really thinking that she was a bad mother. Just shows the mixed messages that we can sometimes, very unintentionally, give our kids.

We had a huge cry together - that was good too!! For all of us.

That's when I put her into a big hot bath then my bed and told her to stay there and sleep, and took over caring for her and baby for a week. Straight after going onto formula, bubs started sleeping for 4 hrs straight, and has never looked back.

That little baby is now 15 yrs old, happy and healthy, and driving her Mum bananas!!

What in the world is a nipple shield???? Glad the baby is on formula. I think things will improve nutrition wise with her. Now to get mom on the right track.

Amylynn...I have a pregnant depressed daughter. What was the anti depressant they gave you when you were pregnant?

Nipple shields are used for women who have problems with the baby
latching on such as with inverted nipples. They were never intended to be
used exclusively for breast feeding. Candice will not nurse without them
and she went out one day and forgot it while shopping. the baby screamed
for 45 minutes because Candice refused to nurse without the shield.
Lacation consultants should not promote these as hers did. I just hope that
she realizes how much happier this baby will be now that she is full. I'm all
for breasteeding, and did so myself but it is not for everyone. I'm so glad
her OB doctor cued into this today and took some action. I'm a bit unhappy
that Candice didn't listen to us, but took her doctor seriously. I guess we
have no credibility with her.

Grammaskittles- She put me on Prozac. I had been on Zoloft after my 3rd baby ( well...he was about 1 yr old before I told anyone) I think Zoloft would have worked too....but I noticed within about 2-3 days after taking the Prozac I felt a bit better. I knew the hormones were kicking in when I just started feeling this awful "out of control" feelings. Not like anger or anything...just overwhelming..can't really explain it, but I knew it was the depression starting. Luckily my OB recognized it too.

Your daughter should for sure talk to her OB about it. It's totally nothing to be ashamed about or anything like that. And it's perfectly safe to take while pregnant. My baby is 14 months old and perfectly fine.

I have a friend who used the shields because her nipples were inverted. The shields help pull the nipple out...unfortunately my friend didn't have alot of luck with hers. Hers just wanted to stay hidden. That's too bad someone didn't explain it better to your DD, Lorster.

Amylynn...thank you so much for the info on the anti depressants. I have been talking with her for awhile about her depression and she just didn't admit to herself until a couple of days ago. She knows she has bad postpartum depression also and said she wants to be on something now and get it built up in her system for after the baby is born. She will have no help in the house with the baby after I leave. I can only stay with her for a week after the baby is born. So she was kinda frightened about that and I think that is what woke her up. After I kept telling her no when she kept asking me to stay longer than a week.

Thanks for all the info on nipple shields. I don't know if they had those when I nursed 12 years ago. Do they affect milk production or the babies ability to nurse and get enough milk? My daughter is thinking of nursing this baby and if her lactation consultant mentions these nipple shields I want to be as informed as possible.

We now have a clear indication of what is going on. My second dtr went to
spend the day with Candice. She took Candice and Shaun out to lunch at
Olive Garden, Candices fav resteraunt. They got done with lunch and the
dessert menu came out. Candice says, will someone share a dessert with
me? Andrea told candice that she was too full. So candice says, well, I'll just
have one my self. Her husband Shaun looked at her, grabbed the dessert
menu out of her hand and says, You don't need dessert. How cruel was that????? I bet she didn't get the desert either, poor thing. Is he a big jerk or what? If nothing else he sounds like he may belittle her or boss her around. No wonder the girl is depressed. Lorster how does he act towards the baby,maybe he resents being a father...TOO BAD he needs to grow up and accept responsibility too. And that means helping your daughter and the baby. I hate it when men act like this. He probably expects Candace to be back to pre-baby weight now. UGHH. I may be totally way off base but that comment about her desert burns me up!!!........Genesis

Poor thing. No wonder she's depressed. You're right....that does seem to be a good indication of what's going on behind the closed doors. If he did that in front of other's just imagine the type of things he does when no ones around. I can't stand controling men!

Bless her heart. What a jerk!

Well, that comment was certainly an eye opener. I have to agree with Lovie. If he said that in front of your other daughter, what else is going on behind closed doors? That comment he made in and of itself is emotional abuse. Your daughter needs out NOW. She is being without a doubt emotionally abused. And so is that baby.

http://www.womenslaw.org/more_info.htm#top This link will give you and your family the info and help they need.

Lorster I am so sorry things are not going well for Candice and the baby I am glad the dr intervened and I am glad Candice has a caring person, in her life, like you. May I say maybe your husband can take the son in law aside and explain to him just exactly what is going on with Candice and that she needs understanding and not ridicule. I hope things get better for everyone and please know I will keep your little one in my prayers. meme Meme-you are such a sweetheart. I really wish all it took was Lorsters husband pulling him aside and talking with him. Unfortunately, that may just add fuel to the fire. He may become angry and upset that her family is intervening as in his mind, he does not see what he is doing as hurting her. Abusers put the blame on the person that they are abusing. In his mind, Candice does not need understanding and compassion from him. In his mind, she needs to "get with the program" or "straighten her act up" or any one of the things that people emotionally abuse others say along that line. Some of Candice's depression is stemming from not feeling worthy enough for her husband because he makes her feel that way. Some of her depression can also be coming from post partum issues. Most people who abuse someone in no matter what manner it is, have been abused themselves. A lot of times it is a learned behavior. So, somewhere along the line, Candice's husband may have been abused. It can also stem from the PTSD he is trying to deal with.

Both Candice and her husband will need some intensive counseling. Seperately for themselves and together as a couple. They will not succeed as a couple until they resolve what is going on within themselves. Then they can work on their marriage together as a couple.

When I was a paramedic, we were intensely educated on all aspects of abuse and dealt with all aspects of abuse. I have had women tell me that they would rather be physically than emotionally abused. Words stay with you forever, bruises do not. That is the rationale that the emotionally abused have. Check out the link that I posted. There may come a time in your life that you come across someone that is being abused that you can help out. That link will help you do that.

I understand that believe me, but maybe her dad can convince to the husband to back off from Candice for awhile and let her be with people who will help her instead of treating her like dirt. meme I hope so. I really really do. What would be nice to see is that Lorster gathered up all her stuff and brought her daughter and the baby home with her. We will find out what happened soon. She should be back late tonight.
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