In your opinion, is it ethical for doctors to accept money, vacations or perks from pharmaceutical companies?
New York Times
Doctors Reap Millions for Anemia Drugs
"Two of the world’s largest drug companies are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to doctors every year in return for giving their patients anemia medicines, which regulators now say may be unsafe at commonly used doses.
The payments are legal, but very few people outside of the doctors who receive them are aware of their size. Critics, including prominent cancer and kidney doctors, say the payments give physicians an incentive to prescribe the medicines at levels that might increase patients’ risks of heart attacks or strokes.
Industry analysts estimate that such payments — to cancer doctors and the other big users of the drugs, kidney dialysis centers — total hundreds of millions of dollars a year and are an important source of profit for doctors and the centers. The payments have risen over the last several years, as the makers of the drugs, Amgen and Johnson & Johnson, compete for market share and try to expand the overall business.
Neither Amgen nor Johnson & Johnson has disclosed the total amount of the payments. But documents given to The New York Times show that at just one practice in the Pacific Northwest, a group of six cancer doctors received .7 million from Amgen for prescribing million worth of its drugs last year.
Yesterday, the Food and Drug Administration added to concerns about the drugs, releasing a report that suggested that their use might need to be curtailed in cancer patients. The report, prepared by F.D.A. staff scientists, said no evidence indicated that the medicines either improved quality of life in patients or extended their survival, while several studies suggested that the drugs can shorten patients’ lives when used at high doses. Yesterday’s report followed the F.D.A.’s decision in March to strengthen warnings on the drugs’ labels..."
For full article, see:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/business/09anemia.html?ex= 1182398400&en=42a46f669ac751b9&ei=5070
Thanks for posting this for people who aren't aware of the incentive program between drug manufacturers and the medical community. This isn't anything new, has been going on for years and will probably continue in some way forever. This battle between drug company incentives to physcians, clinics, and hospitals isn't something that just started. It's old hat. Docotors aren't the only individuals who are awarded. Nothing's been done in the last 30 years even though the public has known about it. I don't expect much will be done in the future. Just some wrist slapping. If you're that interested in becoming involved start at the grass roots level with your own physicians and find out what their stance is. If they take incentives then drop them as your physcian and try and find other physicians who don't take incentives. Good luck. I know, I heard that there are a few out there but I'm not aware of them.
How do I feel about it? At my age (62) I don't really care. Sounds selfish doesn't it? It probably is, but I've fought the fight for years and now I'm going to grow old with peace of mind. Three years ago I couldn't walk, had life threatening complications from RA. Today, I'm not only walking but able to live my life to the fullest. It doesn't matter if the docs prescribe AP therapy, dmards, or biologics they all take incentives of one type or the other from the manufacturers. Even if it's a note pad. Personally, I feel if doctor's don't give free samples to patients who can't afford their meds then they're doing a disservice to those patients.
I didn't read the article.....just don't have time; but I don't see anything wrong with a certain amount insentives.
A far as a large gift baskets go; we get things like that at Christmas every year from people we do business with. It's often comon in all walks of life to send things just to stay fresh on someones mind; especially in business.
I don't think it changes the level of care I get one bit. One time people were bashing doctors for giving out free samples they get. I for one have always been grateful to be on the receiving end of such habits.
[QUOTE=BeeBee]Speaking of ethics. Are you going to report yourself for copyright
infringment?
That is what she did on another site. Went to the author and tattled that
someone was copying articles. It was her way to shut up good research, so it
would be harder for people to read it.
Just in case she edits it. She has cut and pasted a copyrighted article in this
topic while ratting out other people for doing it if she doesn't agree with the
research.
Bee[/QUOTE]
Because the author from about.com came over to Arthritis.org, you incorrectly assume I tattled. Why don't you contact the author and ask for yourself. AF Chick told everyone not to paste full articles on arthritis.org -- and I will not do it. I wasn't aware that was a rule here.
We have no rules here. It is a free-4-all until the site owner decides to take the reigns again.
Oh yeah, you can get into trouble by the author of the article if they find out you posted their article without permission.
I am trying to be on my bestest behavior.
Me too Lovie, on a much much smaller scale, my hubby recieves lots of goodies from the venders he regularly buys from. Golf balls, Lowes gift certificates, Honey Baked Hams, Free passes to golf, pens, pads,gift baskets, hats , shirts, all kinds of neat things, just I think to show their appreciation for using their products and services. I see nothing wrong with that or, a Dr. either as long as he knows the products will help and do no harm. My hubby will not use an inferior product or campany and I hope Dr's ethics would keep them from doing the same on a much more grander scale.
So Bee Bee telling an author her work is being pirated, published in violation of the copywrite laws and not even being credited is less ethical than stealing the work in the first place?
Protecting an authors legal rights does not prevent someone from reading their work. The correct way is to provide the articles headline and a few sentences and then posting a link to the rest of the article.
Maybe some of that money could be put to better use if it were used to
Me too Lovie, on a much much smaller scale, my hubby recieves lots of goodies from the venders he regularly buys from. Golf balls, Lowes gift certificates, Honey Baked Hams, Free passes to golf, pens, pads,gift baskets, hats , shirts, all kinds of neat things, just I think to show their appreciation for using their products and services. I see nothing wrong with that or, a Dr. either as long as he knows the products will help and do no harm. My hubby will not use an inferior product or campany and I hope Dr's ethics would keep them from doing the same on a much more grander scale.
[/QUOTE]
I think most industries regulate the size of the gifts. When I worked in advertising I think there was a 0 maximum gift amount. I think gift baskets, lunches, hats, golf balls are all fine. I think that vacations or 2.7 million for just 6 doctors (like in the article) probably crosses the ethics line. JMO. Take care, Karin
[QUOTE=buckeye]copywrite laws have nothing to do with board rules. It is illegal to reprint articles without an authors/editors permission
So Bee Bee telling an author her work is being pirated, published in violation of the copywrite laws and not even being credited is less ethical than stealing the work in the first place?
Protecting an authors legal rights does not prevent someone from reading their work. The correct way is to provide the articles headline and a few sentences and then posting a link to the rest of the article.
[/QUOTE]
Buckeye: Thanks for the heads up. It wasn't even close to the entire article, but it was probably too much. I will just post a few sentences with the link in the future.
Take care, Karin
Exactly Karin, I didn't know about the 2.7 mil for 6 Drs. Holy Cow!! That sounds like the mafia don't it? Who would be in control of that? Or do you think it can be controlled?
[QUOTE=LinB]Thanks for posting this for people who aren't aware of the incentive program between drug manufacturers and the medical community. This isn't anything new, has been going on for years and will probably continue in some way forever. This battle between drug company incentives to physcians, clinics, and hospitals isn't something that just started. It's old hat. Docotors aren't the only individuals who are awarded. Nothing's been done in the last 30 years even though the public has known about it. I don't expect much will be done in the future. Just some wrist slapping. If you're that interested in becoming involved start at the grass roots level with your own physicians and find out what their stance is. If they take incentives then drop them as your physcian and try and find other physicians who don't take incentives. Good luck. I know, I heard that there are a few out there but I'm not aware of them.
How do I feel about it? At my age (62) I don't really care. Sounds selfish doesn't it? It probably is, but I've fought the fight for years and now I'm going to grow old with peace of mind. Three years ago I couldn't walk, had life threatening complications from RA. Today, I'm not only walking but able to live my life to the fullest. It doesn't matter if the docs prescribe AP therapy, dmards, or biologics they all take incentives of one type or the other from the manufacturers. Even if it's a note pad. Personally, I feel if doctor's don't give free samples to patients who can't afford their meds then they're doing a disservice to those patients.
[/QUOTE]
You're welcome, Lin! It really was a shocker to me. I knew lunches, free samples, and gift baskets were acceptable. I had NO idea that 2.7 million for 6 doctors was legal! I thought a doctor would get his/her license yanked for that!
Take care, Karin
[QUOTE=genesis]
Exactly Karin, I didn't know about the 2.7 mil for 6 Drs. Holy Cow!! That sounds like the mafia don't it? Who would be in control of that? Or do you think it can be controlled?
[/QUOTE]
I don't know. Apparenty, the article says it is legal. There must be some loopholes or something. I don't see how the board of ethics can allow that. I know there are regulations on these things for almost every other industry.
Take care, Karin :)
We discussed this very concept last quarter in my "Law and Ethics for the Medical office". Ethics are different depending on where you work. I worked at a state hospital and we were not allowed to accept ANYTHING. If something was sent to you, then you either needed to return it or give it to the foundation. That follows state ethics (same in schools, if you receive flowers from a vendor or win a door prize at a convention you must give it immediately to the foundation.Ethical?
No.
Pip
Well, this subject is exactly what I have been ranting and raving about that certain posters take me to task on. I honestly believe that most patients do not realize how insidious this gift/script kickback scheme truly is. Are all doctors doing it? No. Is it ethical, absolutely not.
But, I also know that doctors feel they gave away the best part of their young lives to studying hard to become doctors and deserve to be rewarded. However, if writing so many scripts of prescription X once a month (that are actually FILLED) can win you a free trip to Bahamas, its very tempting, but a dangerous way to practice. And this example is very different than getting a Christmas goodie basket once a year for the staff to enjoy. I could care less about free pens and notepads.
I have three full bottles of drugs that were prescribed to me that I never took one pill. And as I told my husband at the time, the only reason I had them filled is because I felt the doctor honestly thought they had diagnosed me in the first visit in ten minutes running no tests, and wrote a script for what they thought was right. I knew they were wrong, but I knew that filling the script would give them credit for that pharmaceutical company, and I felt they deserved the credit for giving it a good shot. I have a bag where I keep these bottles (and others I started, but stopped because they were wrong and the side effects were awful) and you can count out the pills to the exact amount prescribed, and some of these are now 4-5 years old because it took six years to get diagnosed, and I still don't think they have it quite right.
The other ones I saw, the evil, bad doctors. I never filled their scripts and never went back. But after 48 doctors now (actually its now 49 since I just had a fourth opinion), I slowly am getting closer to a real diagnosis and proper treatment. And I have been prescribed everything from digitalis for my racing heart to diuretics for my inflammation swelling, but it was autoimmune/arthritis all along and I was diagnosed one year ago on the 26th of this month.
So, I am very pleased to see this thread. Do I think anything is going to change, no, but at least some of us are more informed now and just remember you have to be your own doctor.
Maybe I am stupid but I am trying to find out how the pharm companies find out that a certain doctor is prescribing their meds????Cathy - Are you keeping a journal on the docs? Like what they did, what they prescribed, etc. And man or man, you way surpass me with my 10 docs (but I'm technically still counting). LOL I actually had the thought early this morning of making a chart and showing what I had to go thru just to get AP. I think that would help newbies on the AP front. If you did a chart for the biologics etc - wouldn't that help your people. Just a thought.
Thinkthin - It's not a stupid question. I've heard that before but never heard "how". Anybody know?
Pip
I know how my urologist gets his tracked for vesicare. They gave him an RX tablet with vesicare already printed on the RX and it had all his info that would be on a regular RX script, and all he had to do was check a box and sign his name to it.
Yeah, I think that is another reason why I am not going to take or get vesicare filled. Oh and then he gave me coupons, to get off and on the back it had to be filled out and it asked for the prescribing dr's name address and all that crap.
This is one way they used to track it, but I don't know if it still is. I had a friend who interviewed for pharm sales, and her pay would be based on rx's in her territory. They would track sales at pharmacies nearest drs. that she called on. It wasn't exact, because the patient may travel to a different pharmacy closer to their home, but that is how they based the rep's pay. The same method could be used to bonus doctors, I guess.Pip - I blow through these morons as fast as I can, until I have slowly built a team of competent physicians. My poor husband, he is flabbergasted. He accompanies me on the visits, and has witnessed the behavior. I don't think anyone would believe me if I ever put to paper the wierdness we have encountered. He says its like they take one look at me and just fall apart, because they know I am on to their game. LOL My favorite was the time the doctor started the appointment by throwing the door open and threw my blood work tests at me. We were stunned. Guess he missed class that day they explained blood tests. Cathy
Oh, and about tracking scripts. Since I day stock trade in pharmaceutical companies (my revenge), I can assure you that there is a reporting service and the scripts are calculated, tabulated, digested, analyzed, published, and everybody who needs to know, knows who is prescribing what. It's released every Monday I believe.