I found this interesting - especially en lieu of my AP. Dr. Brown said in the New Arthritis Breakthrough that underweight people would gain weight and overweight people would lose weight on AP.
It appears to be so for me.
Pip
P.S. This article was originally in the LA Times.
http://sandips-favorite-articles.blogspot.com/2007/01/does-b ug-in-our-gut-make-us-fat-los.html
Interesting article Pip, especially the part about whether some adults are predisposed to obesity because they start out with fewer Bacteroidetes and more Firmicutes in their guts.
Although I don't know much about Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes, working in a hospital that specilizes in bariatric surgery, I do know that MANY of our gastric bypass patients test positive and must be treated for h.pylori and other gastrointestinal bacteria prior to having the surgery.
I'm going to do a little research on Bacteroidetes and Firmicutes and see what I can find out!
My sister with RA has had H pylori twice. Bad stuff...
Thanks Gale. I love researching this stuff! Just fascinates me. Please share!
Genesis - H Pylori has also been linked to heart disease. One of the researchers thought it was mostly another bug in the plaque but found a lot of H there too. My question? How did it get out of the intestines? Leaky gut? But I thought it needed acid to survive? Not trying to be scary - but how is your sisters heart function?
OK, another question. I thought RA people were usually way under or way overweight (I'm making a generalization here people.) One thing I've seen posted over and over again is that we don't metabolize certain minerals etc. Like potassium. Or Albumin. Things like that. I was way low on a lot of this. And way overweight. Sooooo....if the gut bacteria is really efficient at getting stuff out of the food - where does those minerals and nutrients go? I didn't have it.
Stuff like this drives me crazy.
Pip
Hey, Pip - What about the idea that there are literally thousands(probably more) of people who are mildly allergic to a certian food, or just intolerant of it. I can't really remember where this talk came up at, but I do remember talking about how an intolerance or allergy to a food can mess up the balance of bacteria in your tummy, and even the way your body digests things. I don't know where exactly I'm going with this, but it feels like it could fit in.....it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read all of this. Like there might be a link between it all. Heh. Anywho, I know I'm an example of that. Kinda. I had so many other (non RA) issues going on, and as soon as I got rid of the lactose - wheeee!! It's all gone and fixed. So simple, yet so difficult. Ya know?
HUMMM Pip ,now you got me wondering... my sis with RA has CAD ( coronary artery disease) but no actual heart disease. In an earlier post to Lori I kinda explained all thats wrong with her and it's unbelieveable. She has five stents and an anuerysm in her stomach.
She's never been too over weight but has gained some on the Pred and from inactivity, but she's not obese. She is on nexium, carafate, and Asifix (sp)for ulcers (that she's had on and off since she was 12 yrs. old.) and also has IBS. I would not be a bit surprised if bacteria is not the "source" of most of her illnesses. What do you think?
Pip - After doing a little research on the roll of Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes, I think I'm actually MORE confused!
You said that Dr. Brown reported that underweight people would gain weight and overweight people would lose weight on AP. Is this because of the probiotics that are taken in conjunction with AP?
From what I understand, the "good" bacteria from Firmicutes includes most of the bacteria found in probiotics. However, that same "good" bacteria is actually the "bad" bacteria that causes obesity. So if underweight people take probiotics, I understand how this would make them gain weight, as they would be INCREASING the number of Firmicutes. But what I don't understand, is how an overweight person taking the same probiotics would lose weight. I would think they would actually gain MORE weight because of the increase of Firmicutes from the probiotics. Am I making any sense?? :)
Anyway, this is interesting stuff!
Genesis - sorry again about your sister. I didn't see the post to Lori. I try to stay out of posts I know nothing about. LOL.
I do know I've seen research on H. Pylori becoming a cell wall deficient bacteria over time so maybe that's how the damn thing migrates. There is a researcher over at Vanderbilt doing all the exciting MS research that tested himself for c. pneumonia (also linked to heart disease) and while he didn't have heart disease yet, put himself on a rotation of antibiotics because he tested positive. You might try researching the links. And IBS is definitely a myco - my mom has that and will be starting AP as soon as she gets an appointment with her GP. Just Google or GoogleScholar the disease and the word mycoplasma and see what pops up and if it at all applies to your sister. Maybe add in the known links. Like c. pneumonia and h. pylori and see if you get some 'hits'. And yes, as the pre-eminant AP soapbox 'queen' - I do think that is the source of most of her illnesses. Your milage may vary. - gentle :-) This was one of the bonuses for me. There is heart disease all over my family. Only the 4 of us kids don't have it - yet - but we're just entering that stage of life. Until AP, I thought it was all that fried food we ate growing up. LOL.
Katie -
I know there is some sort of food connection. I know the anti-vitamin D people think it's all the D put in everything nowadays. The celiac's (some, I know there's one here) on the Roadback, think it's in the super gluten products manufactured for Big Agri. Something within the last 40-50 years has changed and something especially has happened within the last 15. Something is irritating the gut lining that is a major barrier between us and toxins. I just know nothing about agriculture/horticulture/plant diseases etc. so I don't know if I'll ever figure it out. All I do know is genes alone cannot possibly explain the surge in AI disease. 1 in 6 Americans. And nobody's noticing? Is it because they separate us. The Lupus people over here. The RA people over there. The diabetics over there. And nobody, as far as I can tell, is looking at disease as a whole.
I feel like the Twilight Zone episode and yelling "It's in the food" instead of "It's a cook book!". Like anybody would listen.
Pip
Gale -
Wow - fascinating! Can you tell I love Star Trek? But seriously, I have to think about this. This is just something that's mentioned in passing in the New Arthritis Breakthrough. I have to find my copy. It's here somewhere. LOL Under a box or something. I think it was something that Dr. Brown noticed after decades of helping people. Get the disease under control and the body 'rights' itself. But, like you said, if it's related to probiotics - we all take probiotics. I wonder if there is any research on how those beasties use the minerals etc. in our bodies. Maybe killing the bad guys off allows us overweight people to utilize food better, we feel full sooner and, and, and...stop eating sooner?
I'm reaching here. Can you tell?
Pip
A friend of mine with a different AI disease told me today we're the canaries
HUMMM Pip ,now you got me wondering... my sis with RA has CAD ( coronary artery disease) but no actual heart disease. In an earlier post to Lori I kinda explained all thats wrong with her and it's unbelieveable. She has five stents and an anuerysm in her stomach.
She's never been too over weight but has gained some on the Pred and from inactivity, but she's not obese. She is on nexium, carafate, and Asifix (sp)for ulcers (that she's had on and off since she was 12 yrs. old.) and also has IBS. I would not be a bit surprised if bacteria is not the "source" of most of her illnesses. What do you think?
[/QUOTE]
It sounds like your sister has had h.pylori more than twice if she has had stomach ulcers on and off since she was 12. 90% of stomach ulcers are caused by h. pylori. Definitely sounds like stomach bacteria is the cause of her illness. What did they give her for the h. pylori?
Take care, Karin
[QUOTE=Brisen]Pip - After doing a little research on the roll of Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes, I think I'm actually MORE confused!
You said that Dr. Brown reported that underweight people would gain weight and overweight people would lose weight on AP. Is this because of the probiotics that are taken in conjunction with AP?
From what I understand, the "good" bacteria from Firmicutes includes most of the bacteria found in probiotics. However, that same "good" bacteria is actually the "bad" bacteria that causes obesity. So if underweight people take probiotics, I understand how this would make them gain weight, as they would be INCREASING the number of Firmicutes. But what I don't understand, is how an overweight person taking the same probiotics would lose weight. I would think they would actually gain MORE weight because of the increase of Firmicutes from the probiotics. Am I making any sense?? :)
Anyway, this is interesting stuff!
[/QUOTE]
I think the answer lies not in the probiotics, but in the antibiotics. Perhaps they are killing the bacteria, firmicutes, that are "too" good at breaking down complex carbohydrates, making one lose weight. We should all want to use GOOD food efficiently. I think the obvious answer lies in eating the right foods and not too much. Probiotics are important because they replace the "efficient/too good" bacteria-- Especially important after antibiotics. It is probably a balancing act (don't want too much or too little firmicutes). Here is an interesting viewpoint on the subject: http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletters/07/1-1-2007.php
Interesting article. Hugs, K
I was treated for H Pylori six years ago when I had ulcer problems. No heart problems. I have an EKG every year at my physical because I had some mild palpatations at the beginning of menopause ( which isn't uncommon). Always good!
I do have an article saved that states that when H.Pylori is eradicated, the severity of RA may lessen. I didn't know if I was allowed to post it, but it will come up over a search with H Pylori and rheumatoid arthritis.
Oh, my weight stayed the same on the AP. I took probiotics everyday. I was at the right weight when I started it.
Karin, my sister took Biaxin and Amoxicillan for 14 days a run, with stomach meds too. She was awfully sick from the meds but blood work afterwards showed it had finally worked. Her Dr. said H Pylori could cause stomach cancer so she has regular checks with a Gastroenterologist. As you can imagine with all the RA meds added to tons of other meds her stomach stays a mess.....Take CareI was under the impression it wasn't possible to take too many probiotics? Is[QUOTE=Gimpy-a-gogo]I was under the impression it wasn't possible to take too many probiotics? Is
this wrong? I don't think I'm taking too many, anyway, but is it possible I
could? I use Florastor, which works AMAZING, and I also use acidophilus
pearls, which are pretty good. When I use the pearls I have a bit of yeast (not
much) but when I use Florastor, at just one a day, I have no yeast at all,
according to the simple home candida test. However, there are so many gut
flora I think I should mix it up a bit more. Does anyone have any
recommendations?
By the way, my weight has remained stable while on AP, but I was in normal
range to begin with. Also, I may not be having a true AP experience yet as I
am still also on conventional RA meds.[/QUOTE]
My weight has remained stable on AP, too. My weight was normal to begin. I think if you are taking antibiotics, it is a good idea to take more than the recommended amount of probiotics. Sounds like you are doing things right! Check out the link that I posted above for more info on this topic. This article says to keep taking your probiotics! Take care, Karin