OT - Religion and Opinions | Arthritis Information

Don't even bother reading this if you can't have a healthy debate about religion!!! I'm warning you now!!! People who post replies to this need not be easily offended, or closed minded.

I posted a blog about the situation, and I'll give you the links to it here, but I'm REALLY wanting to hear people's opinions. I feel like I can't possibly be the only one who feels the way I do.

To read everything in the right order, you'll have to scroll down and start with "Really? (Issue 1, Part 1)" and then read the latest post - "Really? (Issue 1, Part 2)"

http://arris-colwell.blogspot.com/

I really get into things like this, and so far I haven't found a comfortable community that's willing to talk about contorversial(sp) news articles. But you guys are mostly pretty open, so I thought I'd give it a go here......

Katie,

Homeschooling! I was thinking the same thing. Does Mr Croft work? It sounds like he has a lot of time on his hands.

I agree, Homeschool...

What frustrates me more than anything these days is the intolerance for differing beliefs and a insensitivity to others. I think it is unrealistic and unfair of this man to expect all that he is demanding, but I also think the teachers and schools could be more sensitive to the atheists children.

I can give you an example of the flip flop on this story. When my daughter was in 4th grade her teacher was in a car accident and a long term substitute was brought in to teach her class. He was a devout Jehovah Witness. Halloween was approaching, kids were getting excited deciding what costumes they were going to wear, and what treats they would be sharing with their classmates for the yearly party, after a parade around the school attended by parents.

That is everyone except my daughters class. The kids were told by their substitute that they could not write about Halloween, pumpkins, or anything of the like in their journals because in doing so they were worshiping the devil. They were not permitted to dress up for Halloween or have a party. When some of us parents complained, the administrator's solution was to say that they could have a party, but it would be called a "Harvest Party" and there would be no costumes for anyone in 4th grade, because of his "strong beliefs". Then he proceeded to tell the kids that when they brought in refreshments to share "He better not see any happy face pumpkins or anything about Halloween on the cupcakes or cookies they brought in".

I had had enough. I respected his feelings, but if he felt that strongly against Halloween, he could have stayed home that day, instead of enforcing his beliefs on everyone. The school and the teacher would not budge - our children couldn't dress up for Halloween. Was he reprimanded for telling our kids that they were devil worshipers? Nope, because the school administration didn't have the balls.

Well guess who arrived at the "Harvest Party" dressed in full clown costume delivering pumpkin cupcakes to the kids??? Yep, I sure did! I didn't utter a word as I was a "silent clown" but I got my message across.

I love you Karen.

And just about daily you show everyone why. LOL

I send my kids to a Catholic school - the public schools in my town are in the toilet. I've been a devout heathen most of my life, but I'm open-minded. We attend Mass at the church where the kids go to school (in fact, I was baptized there!) and I've found that it is what you make of it - religion is a very personal affair. That being said, I've found far more acceptance and tolerance at the Catholic school than can be found at our local public schools. Kids can talk about (and question) religion at the Catholic school; the teachers are actually allowed to answer their questions. They can sing Christmas carols, celebrate Halloween and have Good Friday off.

This little heathen couldn't dream of sending her little devils anywhere else. LOL That's a great story!!! Honestly, you usually hear about the Christian and Catholic schools being the nightmares. But it's not always the case. I think the darker side of the story is typically the one to draw the attention, is all. It's that sex/death drive that Frued(sp) was always yammering on about.Well Katie, it looks like you aren't getting your debate because everyone so far agrees with you. I agree too. 100%

yeah I know............haha oh well.......

I pose this question then:

If I posted more things like this, things that I blog about and such, would people actually be interested in reading them and joining in?

Yeah!! 'course.... good for our brains!! I would....I love a friendly debateGood posts all. I have always figured that if I want something different than what is being offered at school for my kids than I need to provide it. I never thought that the a school should raise my kids, that was our job. Depending on the district we were in I have had my kids in Public school, home school and Private school. If I didn't like what was happening I took care of it. They were my responsibility after all.

A district in California did not use certain IQ tests on Black children because of the "cultural" issues involved in the tests that the Black children might be disadvantaged by, the same school decided that half of the day would be taught in Spanish. My solution? Home school! I did not think that my kids were in any way culturally "disadvantaged" just because they were "Black". I love that my kids were taught different languages, but they were not going to be taught in Spanish, unless we moved to Spain.

I had other problems with a Public school in Washington and took my daughter out and put her in a private, religious school that we all love. I could battle it out with the school, but my kids would have been adults by the time that happened.

I think if he didn't like the way things were being done, take them out and see if he could do it better!
Excellent post Mary.

That IQ test thing shocked me! Excuse my bluntness, but what the hell are they talking about? LOL

The father is using his children to further his own agenda. The issue isn't whether I agree with him or not. The issue is he's mentally abusing his children.

This isn't much different than when I was growing up, and my friend's parents forced religion down their throats. They were made to go to Sunday school, church, camp, and couldn't attend other churches. They weren't allowed to play with me or my other friends because we were considered "heathens" by the their parents. We didn't go to church, we were spiritual, we didn't wear our religion on our sleeve, we were good people.

Mr. Croft is the other side of the coin and I feel that he's doing irrepairable damage to his children. Children should have a fun filled and loving childhood. They shouldn't be held up as examples of an aetheist's father's obsessions. Even in the best of circumstances this world is tough for children and Mr. Croft is making it even worse for his children. I'd like to know more about Mr. Croft. Lindy

LinB39303.7837847222Katie,

I think my kids are close to your age, so this was a while ago. IQ tests were given to children for placement for special ed and gifted programs. A teacher recommended my daughter for a gifted program and she needed an IQ test for placement. Studies had shown not all children understood the references made in the questions on the tests due to their culture. Instead of changing the questions (sometimes I am not sure of some of the words or phrases our RA'ers from other countries use LOL

They made me take that IQ test. Were your kids in/around 3rd grade? They told my mom if she wanted to see me go somewhere, and not be bored and get into trouble she should let them bus me out TO THE HIGH SCHOOL (are you seeing the problem here yet?) every Wednesday for the gifted program. But then on like Mondays or something I was in the slower readers circle.....HAHAHA

I was *miserable* out at the high school. They were having us invent things, and write 3-4 page reports. It wasn't fun at all, it wasn't stimulating. I was lucky that we moved that year. Whew.

I am also a teacher in the public school. I would love to work in a private school. When I do "holiday" studies we include just about every point of view. Especially in the sixth grade. I would also bring in the history of why, and what has changed/remained the same. If we had children with other celebrations, we would include them and they would tell us about their uniquenss. I do not celebrate Halloween either, but I never made a fuss about it. I just told my kids I dressed up as the scariest teacher they've ever had!! LOL!

Unfortunately the extremes of our culture are getting more of a voice, and the moderation is not. There are other choices for schools and maybe he needs to investigate his OPTIONS. The thing that scares me the most is his hairy carry about all of the functions. The things you withhold from kids cause more curiosity. If it is bad than they must be hiding something from me. What will happen in ten years if his kids find a relationship with Jesus??? I know that he will disown them, the writing is on the wall, so he is letting religion determine who he likes and dislikes and that is devastating for any child.

Religion should be about a relationship, not a battle!

Yes Katie she was in 3rd grade. When our second daughter was in third grade they too wanted to test her, but I guess in WA it doesn't matter what color you are. I figured that if she survive being the youngest of 6, that was as gifted as it gets. I worry sometimes that kids that young should just be playing, not writing 3-4 page reports.

I had a blast the last week with my 2 nephews (6 and 9) who were staying with us. We played non stop. I tried to keep the TV and computer off and play for real, but the 6 year old asked me if this was "Amish time". That is what his parents call it when the electronics are turned off. I almost fell over laughing. I sat down with to look at old albums to show them their dad as a boy and the 9 year old looked at pictures our our Christmas and when he saw the toys his dad had, he was irate. "my dad told me that when he was a boy all he had was rocks an sticks". Then I did fall over laughing. [QUOTE=arriscolwell]

That IQ test thing shocked me! Excuse my bluntness, but what the hell are they talking about? LOL

[/QUOTE]

Regarding the IQ test: I remember that whole thing. It was ridiculous. "They" felt that some cultures might not be exposed to certain things that the tests might refer to in a question. So those kids would not have the background knowledge to be able to answer a question, and thus be disadvantaged. I can't think of a good example, but it would be like asking how many pigs were in the barn to a bunch of city kids. Does that make any sense at all? LOL

This brings back memories from when my kids were in grade school. They had a child in their class that wasn't allowed to recognize holidays, etc. and the school decided it was easier to not allow for parties, etc. rather than fight with the parent of this child. The parents didn't want their child removed from the situation, but didn't want the child to see or hear things. I remember I was very upset, went to school and tried to talk to the administration. Their position was that this child had the right to be in class and we had to allow for his position on religious issues.

My boys also had a blind kid in their class. When they were younger they enjoyed learning about his disability and helping him out. However, as they got older it was different. Because he was in their class, each kid had to take a day and walk him to all of his classes, be his partner in gym class, take him to get his lunch, put his tray away, etc. etc. I agree that it is nice to help a person, but to demand that each child take a turn every twenty days and wait on him was not called for. It made the kids not like him. If his parents wanted him "main streamed" into school, I believe he should have been able to care for himself. Okay, I may get shot on that one, but it's how I feel.

Every religion (or non religion) is catered to in the public schools with the exception of Christianity and perhaps Judaism. At U of M Dearborn where there is a high population of muslim, the highest in the country, I believe, they are installing wash basins for the muslim ceremonial cleansing. At a public University. Bet they wouldn't consider hanging a painting of Jesus anywhere. Seriously, where is the ACLU here??? They aren't for seperation of church and state, they are for the abolishment of Christianity.Linda that is soooo true. You almost have to be over caring about other "religions" and undercaring about Christianity. Although I guess Jesus has never been very popular unless you need a swear word...no offense please just observation.Nope, He sure isn't...but He said He wouldn't be.Yep! I hear ya on that, but how can we call ourselves a "Christian" nation when we are eliminating every Christian value?? I hate when people refer to America as a "Christian Nation" because all of the things that point to us being at least tolerant are being stripped away. HMMMM!

Did you know that the Muslims and ACLU is demanding that foot baths be funded by tax dollars? Reverse discrimination? I can't remember what college it is but complaints about a cross in their chapel has been found to be "offensive" and has to be removed when someone with another religion goes in to pray. I think it's William and Mary. The little statue has been there hundreds of years and now it's offensive? but our tax dollars are demanded to provide foot baths.hummmm. I believe I'm a very tolerant person but this borders on insanity.IMO

[QUOTE=moana]

[/QUOTE]

My feet are always hurting; perhaps I should demand my employer install a therapeutic foot bath!!!
Copyright ArthritisInsight.com